Sounds strange. Do they want you to use pistol rounds? Not too many rifle cases fit that criteria.

Mark.

 

I'm not from Indiana, but I was under the impression that the center fire rifle must be chambered in a straight-walled case, not a bottle-necked round like the 35 Remington. Therefore, choices like the 357 magnum, 45 colt, and 44 magnum qualify, but conventional rifle calibers do not.

Perhaps someone from IN will chime in.

 

That what they seem to be doing, Oz. I can partly understand the state's position on this as the Midwest is relatively flat and becoming increasingly populated in rural areas, so there's always a chance some stray 7mm Rem Mag could travel do something bad just beyond the tree line. But it's kind of ridiculous at the same time since they have no restrictions on rifles when taking coyotes, feral hogs, or other nuisance animals. I guess that a .25/06 is magically safer when pointed at a coyote than a deer. Also, the state permits modern sabots in shotguns and muzzleloaders, which are on par with the performance of premium .30/30 Winchester ammunition. Strange, but, oh well... just another example of governmental nonsense.

 

Coss, the guide lists several "examples" of approved cartridges, all of which are straight-walled, but there is nothing in the guide that states bottle-neck cases are not permitted. I wondered the same thing initially, but it is a single paragraph in the guide which I have read about 20x now. Who knows.

 

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that they are talking about the normal length of the cartridge in question as opposed to whatever modification you might make to it. Again I may be wrong, but I read that somewhere, possibly on one of these boards, you may want to verify the information.

 

I guess I'll just have to contact the Indiana DNR... worst case scenario, I have an excuse to by a Marlin 1894!

 

See, you've just turned a negitive into a positive.:biggrin:

Mark.

 

Thats a pretty dumb law. I don't see why trimming the neck would cause feed issues provided you can get enough bite to crimp the cannelure. You will also need a faster burning powder that uses less volume so as not to cause a pressure spike from the lack of case volume. That LVR powder might be good for that. OR maybe just get a p90 with one of those fishingpole cranks attached to it, that pulls the trigger 3 time per revolution would work. I think it fits the case requirements, but will take a lot of hits to drop anything with it.

 

I live in Illinois and I'm pretty sure that it's pistol caliber only.
Mack

 

I believe the attitude in Indiana is more about the #of people in the woods hunting. Delaware doesn't allow rifles, with the exception of paper cartridge Sharps. I don't think they are aware of just what a paper cartridge Sharps rifle is truly capable of.

 

I've toyed with the idea also. To the letter of the law it would be ok. But you get that one overzealous possum cop and you could be fighting for your gun back in court just because it says 35rem on the barrel.

 

Yeah, I thought about that. It's not that I want to challenge the agency by trying to find loopholes... I'd just like to use my 336. But I keep asking myself if this would be more trouble than its worth. I think I would definitely have to save the fired brass and have plenty of handloads on hand as evidence in the event such a "possum cop" was encountered.

 

Here's the entry in its entirety from the 2011-2012 guide: "Shotguns, handguns, rifles with legal cartridges, muzzleloading long guns, and muzzleloading handguns are legal during this firearm season... Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet of of .357-inch diameter or larger, have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches, and have a maximum case length of 1.625 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearm season. Some cartridges legal for deer hunting include the .357 Magnum, .38-40 Winchester, .41 Magnum, .41 Special, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .44-40 Winchester, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express, and .500 S&W."

And there's this addendum that has just been released for the 2012-2013 deer hunting season: "The maximum rifle cartridge length that can be used in the firearm season has now been extended to 1.8 inches. This means that the .460 S&W, .450 Bushmaster, and .50 Beowulf will be legal to use during the deer firearms season."

...yes, every example they are supplying is a straight-walled case, but is there anything in the text that restricts bottle-neck cases? And by the way, the .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM, and .50 Beowulf are not handgun cartridges.

 

You could take a 500 S&W and neck it down to 35 cal.and have a snappy little round!!!

 

This discussion comes up now then about Indiana's hunting laws for rifles that are chambered for pistol cartridge only. The last time a thread like this was posted I looked it up. The law could have charge since then and if I hunt in Indiana I would make it my business to know. Getting back to the 35 Rem. case being trimmed down to 1.880" from 1.920" in my pinion it's still wouldn't make it legal because the rifle's chamber is chambered to fit a 1.920" case and that's what the law will go by. Any game warden that know his/her job will arrest or fine you or both. If I remember correct is the LAW IS FOR STRAIGHT WALL PISTOL CARTRIDGE RIFLE ONLY and in the printed info. available it also states the name of the pistol cartridges. Strangely enough you can hunt with rifle cartridge pistols.

hunting.IN.gov
6 Firearms: Shotguns, handguns, rifles with legal cartridges, muzzleloading long guns and muzzleloading handguns are legal during the firearm season. Only muzzleloading firearms are legal during the muzzleloader season. It is illegal to have a silencer while hunting. Laser sights are legal for hunting deer.
Hunters may carry more than one type of legal firearm when hunting during the firearm season only.
Shotguns must be 10-, 12-, 16- or 20- gauge or .410 bore loaded with slugs or saboted bullets. Rifled slug barrels are permitted. Combination rifle-shotguns are not allowed.
Muzzleloading firearms must be .44 caliber or larger, loaded with a single bullet of at least .357 caliber. Saboted bullets are allowed, provided the bullet is .357 caliber or larger. A muzzleloading firearm must be loaded from the muzzle. Multiple-barrel muzzleloading long guns are allowed.
Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger; have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and have a maximum case length of 1.625 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearm season. Some cartridges legal for deer hunting include the .357 Magnum, .38-.40 Winchester, .41 Magnum, .41 Special, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .44-.40 Winchester, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express, and .500 S&W.
Handguns for deer hunting:
Handguns, other than muzzle loading, must have a barrel at least 4 inches long and must fire a bullet of .243-inch diameter or larger. The handgun cartridge case, without the bullet, must be at least 1.16 inches long. Full metal-jacketed bullets are not permitted.
Handguns are not permitted on any military areas.
Some types of handgun cartridges legal for deer hunting include .357 Magnum, .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .35 Remington and .357 Herrett. Some illegal handgun cartridges for deer hunting are .38 Special, .38 Smith and Wesson, .38 Colt New Police, .38/200, .38 Long Colt, .38 Super, .38 ACP, .38 Colt Auto, .45 ACP, .45 Automatic and .45 Auto Rim. All .25/.20, .32/.20 and .30 carbine ammunition is prohibited.
Muzzleloading handguns are allowed. The muzzleloading handgun must be single shot, .50 caliber or larger, loaded with bullets at least .44 caliber and have a barrel at least 12 inches long, measured from the base of the breech plug excluding tangs and other projections to the end of the barrel, including the muzzle crown.
Carrying firearms:
An individual must not possess a handgun while hunting deer or while accompanying the youth hunter during the youth season unless the individual possesses a valid unlimited license to carry a handgun issued under IC 35-47-2; or is not required to possess a license to carry a handgun under IC 35-47-2-2. It is not legal to take a deer with a handgun except during the firearm and muzzleloader seasons and in compliance with DNR regulations.
Archery equipment:
Legal equipment includes long bows, compound bows or recurve bows and arrows. The bow must have a pull of at least 35 pounds. Arrows must be tipped with broadheads that are metal, metal-edged, or napped flint, chert or obsidian. Poisoned or exploding arrows are illegal.
Bows drawn, held or released by means other than by hand or hand-held releases may not be used. No portion of the bow’s riser or any track, trough, channel, arrow rest or other device that attaches to the bow’s riser can guide the arrow from a point back beyond the bow’s brace height. The common overdraw is still allowed as long as it does not extend beyond the string when the bow is relaxed.
Crossbows:
Crossbows are legal hunting equipment during the late archery deer season and can be used to harvest deer of either sex only in the late archery season. Crossbows must have a minimum 125-pound pull and a mechanical safety.

T:hmmmm:NY

 

This discussion comes up now then about Indiana's hunting laws for rifles that are chambered for pistol cartridge only. The last time a thread like this was posted I looked it up. The law could have charge since then and if I hunt in Indiana I would make it my business to know. Getting back to the 35 Rem. case being trimmed down to 1.80" from 1.90" in my pinion it's still wouldn't make it legal because the rifle's chamber is chambered to fit a 1.90" case and that's what the law will go by. Any game warden that know his/her job will arrest or fine you or both. If I remember correct is the LAW IS FOR STRAIGHT WALL PISTOL CARTRIDGE RIFLE ONLY and in the printed info. available it also states the name of the pistol cartridges. Strangely enough you can hunt with rifle cartridge pistols.

hunting.IN.gov
6 Firearms: Shotguns, handguns, rifles with legal cartridges, muzzleloading long guns and muzzleloading handguns are legal during the firearm season. Only muzzleloading firearms are legal during the muzzleloader season. It is illegal to have a silencer while hunting. Laser sights are legal for hunting deer.
Hunters may carry more than one type of legal firearm when hunting during the firearm season only.
Shotguns must be 10-, 12-, 16- or 20- gauge or .410 bore loaded with slugs or saboted bullets. Rifled slug barrels are permitted. Combination rifle-shotguns are not allowed.
Muzzleloading firearms must be .44 caliber or larger, loaded with a single bullet of at least .357 caliber. Saboted bullets are allowed, provided the bullet is .357 caliber or larger. A muzzleloading firearm must be loaded from the muzzle. Multiple-barrel muzzleloading long guns are allowed.
Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger; have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and have a maximum case length of 1.625 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearm season. Some cartridges legal for deer hunting include the .357 Magnum, .38-.40 Winchester, .41 Magnum, .41 Special, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .44-.40 Winchester, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express, and .500 S&W.
Handguns for deer hunting:
Handguns, other than muzzle loading, must have a barrel at least 4 inches long and must fire a bullet of .243-inch diameter or larger. The handgun cartridge case, without the bullet, must be at least 1.16 inches long. Full metal-jacketed bullets are not permitted.
Handguns are not permitted on any military areas.
Some types of handgun cartridges legal for deer hunting include .357 Magnum, .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .35 Remington and .357 Herrett. Some illegal handgun cartridges for deer hunting are .38 Special, .38 Smith and Wesson, .38 Colt New Police, .38/200, .38 Long Colt, .38 Super, .38 ACP, .38 Colt Auto, .45 ACP, .45 Automatic and .45 Auto Rim. All .25/.20, .32/.20 and .30 carbine ammunition is prohibited.
Muzzleloading handguns are allowed. The muzzleloading handgun must be single shot, .50 caliber or larger, loaded with bullets at least .44 caliber and have a barrel at least 12 inches long, measured from the base of the breech plug excluding tangs and other projections to the end of the barrel, including the muzzle crown.
Carrying firearms:
An individual must not possess a handgun while hunting deer or while accompanying the youth hunter during the youth season unless the individual possesses a valid unlimited license to carry a handgun issued under IC 35-47-2; or is not required to possess a license to carry a handgun under IC 35-47-2-2. It is not legal to take a deer with a handgun except during the firearm and muzzleloader seasons and in compliance with DNR regulations.
Archery equipment:
Legal equipment includes long bows, compound bows or recurve bows and arrows. The bow must have a pull of at least 35 pounds. Arrows must be tipped with broadheads that are metal, metal-edged, or napped flint, chert or obsidian. Poisoned or exploding arrows are illegal.
Bows drawn, held or released by means other than by hand or hand-held releases may not be used. No portion of the bow’s riser or any track, trough, channel, arrow rest or other device that attaches to the bow’s riser can guide the arrow from a point back beyond the bow’s brace height. The common overdraw is still allowed as long as it does not extend beyond the string when the bow is relaxed.
Crossbows:
Crossbows are legal hunting equipment during the late archery deer season and can be used to harvest deer of either sex only in the late archery season. Crossbows must have a minimum 125-pound pull and a mechanical safety.

T:hmmmm:NY

38/40 and 44/40 are not straight walled cases.Whoops did not read all the posts and some one beat me to it!!!!:ahhhhh:

 

what happens if you use it shot and the game warden measures your empty case and finds it just over the legal limit? See if you can russle up an 1894 in 357mag.

 

I believe the game warden/conservation officer will go by the manufacturer standard case size that will apply for none hand loaders. The best way to find this answer is to find it in print that the Indiana big game laws will allow a hand loader to trim down a case to 1.880" to hunt big game. If you don't have it in writing you're gambling with the law, it's your play.:dontknow::flute:

T:biggrin:NY

PS. If you show the conservation office the trim case his/her answer to you maybe "how do I know that you didn't shoot it with a factory cased cartridge and throw away. :dontknow: :hahaha:You can tell it to the judge.

 

The 458 Socom is about as good as it gets for Indiana. I'd love to have an AR for that if I lived there.

 

check out the 358 gremlin.

 

MIght try to stop by one of the local game warden stations if you have a free moment and get their take on the situation. There might be something hidden away that is not so obvious. I know in the past I had a few questions, and didn't hesitate to contact my local office, but I do live about five miles from the local office so its pretty convenient to stop by. The folks down here are really happy to help out and are glad to see people wanting to stay within the lines, so to speak. I remember one particular issue had to do with pistol length when hunting, and I found out they repealed the length issue during the previous year, and they didn't hesitate to let me know. Here is hoping those people up there are as helpful and friendly.

 

I agree but you might get different answers from different game wardens, so get it in up to date print.

T:biggrin:NY

 

The only rifles they allow are basically just handgun cartridge rifles. If I lived there, I'd use my 1894 SS in .44 mag, and I would feel handicapped in the slightest way.

The funny thing is that the .35 Remington is allowed for handgun hunting, but not for rifle hunting. It looks as if someone up there is confused.

 

I've hunted in Indiana for over 20 years. The regs USED to state straight wall cases ONLY, the idea was to allow pistol caliber carbines like the 1894 in .44 Mag and .357. We hunted under those regs for several years. Then some guys whined about using the old cowboy calibers, so .44-40 and .38-40 were let in through some manipulation of the regs. As far as I know, if you're caught using a .35 Rem rifle, expect big fines, that's NOT what was intended. Check with the Indiana DNR, they aren't dummies or typical government types, they'll tell you exactly what's allowed.

As to WHY they suddenly allowed pistol caliber carbines, there was a study done back east, Pennsylvania, I believe, that stated that accident rates were no worse using rifles than with slug-shooting shotguns, previously the only long modern arms allowed for deer in IN. Pistol caliber carbines are specified simply because the rural areas are built up and they don't want misses whistling into farmhouses from the next county over. There haven't been any accidents yet from shotguns firing those extended-range slugs, I expect to hear about one one of these years and the regs will get changed again. The pistol calibers have similar danger areas to regular slugs, are a lot easier on the shoulder and a lot nicer to carry around. Effect on a deer is about the same.

As far as I can see, there is no real advantage to trimming off a .35 Remington to skin under what's perceived as a hole in the regs. Range is NOT going to be increased that much and you can only kill a deer dead, they don't get any deader with a .35 Rem. If you just gotta use one, get a Contender, for some reason, they allow bottle-necked rifle cartridges in that. That will be legal as long as you get the handgun license that Indiana mandates.

Just as a point of information, more than 60% of deer taken were done in last year in Indiana by slug shooters, so not everyone has converted or seen the need to.

Stan S.

 

E-mail the Indiana DNR ref you question.....

 

As an Indiana deer hunter this law has it's good and bad points. For me the good is my hunting areas are rather thick and the deer come in rather close so my 1894 44 mag does just fine. If I am hunting on the bean field edges where long shots are sometimes an option I opt for my contender pistol in 7-30 waters. Plus my 1894 44 limited is amoung my favorite rifles to use for deer here.

As far as trimming down the 35 rem I have thought of it/done it. I have a wonderful 336 sc. On private land I would not worrry about it. I am 47 and have been hunting deer since I was 11 and have only seen a drn guy once when we called them about a deer shot on one property that made it over the fence onto a second property. I did trim some down but the accuracy seemed to suffer and I had one neck bend so I thought it not worth the hassle. It seems that the jump to the lands made accracy less than my regular handloads. If Indiana legal this would be one of my favorites.

The legal issue is a second problem as one round of regular 35 rem in your pocket would make you a law breaker, To me not enough upside for all the hassle and lawyers are expensive.

One of the upside is the new rounds they have dreamed up to be Indiana deer legal.
Hoosier Hunting: .358 Hoosier Wildcat in the "Public Domain" in 2012
358 Gremlin / 9x39 USA - Indiana DNR Legal Pistol Caliber Rifle Cartridge - INGunOwners
WISLEY CUSTOM GUNS, LLC

I hunt a couple of times a year in southren Indiana on the west end of the state. Unless you are on a field edge you are not going to gain anything over a 44 mag with a 35 rem here. Woods are thick and the hills are rolling. I would start checking out where you are going to be hunting first before you make a decision on what you need. This is not kansas (Althought I live on flat lands as kansas) so the long range stuff is not really needed.

If you have to buy a new rifle to hunt with here I might make a second caliber choice for you since you handload. The 357 MAX Conrtender rifle. 35 rem ballistics and about 300 yards without aiming over the deers back. Now if someone made it in a lever action I would be set.....
.357 Maximum » The .357 Maximum Rifle in the Field

 

This law is not now, nor has ever been straight wall cartridge only. Anything that fall within case length and bullet diameter restrictions is legal. Gun chambering has nothing to do with it: ie it is legal to use a 357 magnum but not a 38 special. Just wanted to clear this up. The 35 remington "short" is completely legal and functions fine in a 336. Just cut down a Lee factory crimp die and load to standard OAL and have funJDMAX

 

Have an accident with that 35 rem. so called shot and you'll see just how legal it is. Show me in legal print that what you said is allowed. I still say it's the chambering of the rifle that the law goes by because if a full size 35 Rem case (1.920") fits your guilty and fit it doesn't fit you must acquit.O0

T:biggrin:NY

PS. On this thread above there is a link to a gunsmith who chambers a .358" bullet cartridge barrel to meets this Indiana law. it's worth looking in to if you insist on use a 35 rem. The conversion 35. cal. cartridge barrel they offer would be cheaper than paying fines and or a lawyer.

 

The short 35 rem is legal and does shoot very good. There are no restrictions on the rifle as they all are capable of shooting an illegal cartridge. Examples are 38 sp in 357 mag, 44 russian in 44 mag, 45 schofield in 45 long colt, buckshot in shotguns, and muzzleloaders saboted down to 30 cal. This is why the law states a rifle capable of shooting a legal cartridge. I have been shooting cut to legal 40-60, 45-70, and 450 marlin since the law changed to 1.625" I even tried the 35 rem at 1.625". It didn't shoot well because there was not enough neck. Cut a few cases and try it.

 

Lever Gun Guy, the rule only speaks about cartridge lengths and min caliber, it does not specifically speak toward the firearm, the firearm's chamber etc... So you might be able to go to court and argue the 'plain meaning of the language of the statute'. But from experience, I can tell you that the judge may not see it the same as you do. Of course you may appeal and the appellate court may agree with you and your well paid lawyer. Even if they do, you have spent a lot of money to inform the DNR of the need to change the statute, not to mention the price per pound of that venison, that is if you were lucky enough to get it home. Near the top of this thread you mentioned 'the guide', I take it that is the complementary brochure that the conservation department distributes to stores for hunters and anglers to refresh themselves with the latest develpoments in the law. We have those here in AL. An officer and a judge will quickly tell you that the law regarding a regulation is found in the State Code and one is NOT to rely solely on a pamphlet distributed at Bubba's Bullets & Bobbers.

 

Think the 1.8 is overall length of a loaded round.

The .35 in a LE case may meet the specs they are shorter because of the longer pointed bullet.

Thing is taking .120 from an already short neck makes seating a good bullet square a little harder to do.

Gonna move there and hunt there buy a H&R Handi chambered in .357 Maximum.

 

swany always good to read your post and your replies to them. But I own 336-35R + 336XLR-35R + Rem.760-35R. and load for all three. I just like to say before someone goes hunting with a 35 rem. Leverevolution factory ammo or a LE. hand load. The case length is the same on all 35 Rem. ammo whether it be HDY's LE., Rem., Fed.,etc. My HDY'S manual#8, Lee modern reloading manual, Hodgdon website data info. all have the 35 Rem case length max @ 1.920 and trim to 1.910 for all types a suitable bullets for the 35 Rem. Do you know something I don't know:questionmark:

T:hmmmm:NY

 

The 1.8" is case length only, not cartridge overall length.