Im not a big guy (170lb) and I went to the limbsaver fitment chart and ordered a recoil pad there. I have been shooting 300gr jhp comfortably at about 1800-1900 fps. As well as my 15yr old son. I don't know the recoil numbers but I know it feels a heck of a lot less now!

 

Are you basically shooting the same round. Same bullet, same velocity?You can load the 45-70 to be a real thumper but I don't. It's not necessary, for it to be an effective round. 405gr bullet at around 1600fps is comfortable to shoot and is extremely effective on game.

 

:dito:

 

Pretty similar overall with the 45-70 bullet 50 grains heavier, but the .444 a bit faster.

 

I'm with, Adirondack. I load my 300ga. HP's, at 1775-1800 fps and the recoil isn't that bad, especially with a coat/jacket on. Side note, with that loading, my 1895GS is very accurate- one ragged hole at 50yds. (5 shots) off a bench/bags.

 

I shoot 405s around 1500 fps. Recoil not bad and penetration great. I went through 2 pigs shoulders with one shot and both were DRT.

 

Vince,

Which 405 grain bullet was that? Inquiring minds want to know!

Oh, and what type of firearm? What was the distance?

That is impressive performance! God I love the.45-70!

 

Rem 405s are great on hogs!

 

dont get me wrong, but many people load the 45.70 on the heavy side and thats ok , but you dont need to to kill game.

 

concidering that teenage boys shot the 45/70 in the spanish American war, why complain?

 

When I was a teenage boy I use to jump dirt bikes 60 feet in the air. You really can't compare what teenage boys and a sane grown man will do. I mean....it's just not a fair comparison.:stupid::laugh::laugh:

 

Ok, I guess I will say it... its because the 444 is not a 45-70!!! and the 45-70 is a mans rifle. ROFL, just kidding with a 444 guys :laugh: (I really want one myself)
are both rifles the same length barrels? weights? recoil pads? that can have a lot to do with felt recoil.



Doc

 

Were those two pigs standing side by side ?

 

Recoil is also subjective what one might find comfortable might give me a flinch?
I've shot a lot of .45-70 used to jack the 400gr Speer to a chronographed 2200fps in a #1, that wasn't fun. It did kill though.
A Marlin using a 405gr Rem bullet at 1700 is pleasant to me & not unmanagable. Also shooting off a bench rest brings out all the recoil a rifle is capable of. Shooting from a supported standing position is much more comfortable.

 

Were both guns the same stock configuration? Pistol Grip or straight stock?

 

My hand loads for my 1895 include a 420 grain cast bullet coming out of the tube at a little better than 1,900 fps. With the original hard plastic butt plate that came on my rifle, I would have tears running down my cheeks when shooting from a bench rest after just a box of 20 (and my shoulder turned all sorts of pretty colors). Now my rifle has a mercury piston in the butt stock and a great big recoil pad (I'm 6'6" and need a longer stock anyway). With these recoil tamers its now a fun gun to plink with.

 

WOW, I would not try a 420gr bullet at 1900fps with a plastic butt stock... that just hurts!!



Doc

 

it depends on the ammunition you are using. Black Hills and some other brands that use simulated black powder shoot about the same as a .30-30.

Now, if you are using cartridges that are loaded with modern powders like Winchester Super X, they kick like a mule. Shooting at dusk is fun for the 3 foot flame that come out of the muzzle but you don't want to shoot too many times with those loads.

Now, this is out of a non-ported 1895GS. If you have a rifle with a longer barrel, it may not be as bad.

 

Depends on what you are shooting. The simple answer is physics if all else is the same as other state.
Same gun, same pads, same mass down range they will kick the same.

Most high performance 45-70 rounds (non-trapdoor) put more energy downrange in 45-70....is it enough to matter to the game? I doubt it.

However, check these out from a free energy calculator online.
Assuming a 6lb gun and 45gr of powder in each (to keep it equal).

444 Superformance 265gr (I chose this because its listed velocity is higher than the FTX).
265gr
2,400fps listed
3.62 energy pulse in lb/sec (EP)
free recoil of firearm speed in fps (FRfps) 19.43
free recoil pounds (FRlb) 35.17

45-70 325gr FTX Lever Evolution (LE)
2,050fps
3.75 (EP)
20.15 FRfps
37.82 FRlb

45-70 405gr
1,700 fps
3.85 (EP)
20.68 FRfps
39.84 FRlb

For relative purposes:
12gauge shotgun held to same 6lb weight of gun and assumed 45gr of powder load
1 1/4oz of shot (547gr)
1,300 fps
3.71 (EP)
19.91 FRfps
36.95 FRlb

Edited: So the almost 3ftlbs of free recoil may not seem like much until you realize its almost a 10% increase over the 444 recoil free ftlbs?

Yes...repeated shooting of the big bore rifles are pretty equivalent to a 1,300 fps 1 1/4oz...granted shot is a bit more cushy getting excelled out of a bore but imagine that same recoil in a 1 1/4oz slug. Maybe this gives some perspective as to why the 45-70 feels like more recoil? It is. But I doubt anything on the other end can tell the difference.

RockedEm

 

same rifles shooting same bullet weights at same velocity should be almost imperceptible regarding felt recoil...

that being said, heaving 400gr bullets on up to 500 (or more) is one of those "all actions have equal and opposite reactions" sort of things....

my winchester 95 in 405 winchester tosses a 300gr bullet that sorta smarts when it goes off, the same weight out of my sako in 375 h&h is a wake up call - but heavy garretts from my gg were a "prayer meeting" event when zeroing in the scout scope!!

 

A 405gr hunk of lead fire at 1450fps out the barrel of a 45/70 will penetrate 8ft 6inches of meat.

WHY do you need anything more, or anything less.

A Limb Saver 10003 on the end of my 1895 tames even the nastiest 45/70 dino killer rounds.

 

Remington 405 grain factory drops moose and is a 100 yard round without fault. Recoil is more push and less smack as the 358 Norma mag.. The Buffalo Bore is just more insurance and I like that. The 420 hard cast is solid and the 500 grain impressive. If not in brown or white bear country would be fine with just the 405 grain green box.

 

Mike Venturino (who has a LOT of experience with the .45-70) says more velocity than about 1400fps with a 405-500gr lead .45-70 bullet just throws up a larger divot of mud, dirt, snow, on the far side af a large Bison Bull!:eating:

 

There was a time when I was loading my 45-70s with 405 cast at about 1400 fps or so. Shot fine and killed deer and hogs fine and were easy to shoot. For some reason I started inching up on the velocity. The next thing I knew I was going 1900 fps with 405 grain cast. In addition to being not much fun anymore the Doctor said I was torquing my back, twisting all of the rods and screws that are holding my lower back together. So, I have to back down on the loads. My next batch will be the 405 grain Beartooth cast right aroung 1450 fps. If I can't kill it with that it probably doesn't need killng.

 

My next batch will be the 405 grain Beartooth cast right aroung 1450 fps. If I can't kill it with that it probably doesn't need killng.

:adore::adore::adore::adore: I don't care who you are......That statement right there is funny!!!

 

Take care of your back!

 

hey frank - "throws up a larger divot of mud, dirt, snow, on the far side"

............you gotta have some place to put all the guts when you're field dressing the critter, right?

 

Yes & you should see the cloud of rock dust thrown up when you shoot a rock the size of a Volkswagon with a heavily loaded .45-70! A granite rock really shows a hit!:top:

 

Seems to feel worst on a straight grip Marlin for some reason. Still not as bad as some other calibers because 45-70 is relatively lower pressure. Given the same length barrel a 444 has a smaller hole so the rifle would be heavier if the outside contour was the same as the 45-70. The extra weight would help with recoil.