Wow. This is the first I've heard of this plant change and the loss of Universal and the rest of the Clays from ADI. Are there linkable news articles on this situation? Love universal for .357 mag mid loads.

Do you have access to Accurate powders (or Shooter's World) in Australia? 5744/Buffalo Rifle would be my first suggestion, but you are probably already aware of that one. I run a 44 mag carbine equivalent load with 240 JSPs in my 444P using Buffalo Rifle with good results.

Not sure what the situation for imported powders is there.

Edit: Did some reading. Looks like locally produced (ADI) and maybe Alliant are the only options at the moment? Boy... I suppose I'd be looking at loads using 2400. There are 44 carbine equivalent options using 2400. Or maybe reduced loads with something like Unique, Herco, or Blue Dot... The Lyman cast bullet handbook has load data with 240 and lower cast bullets for all of these powders, if I remember correctly. It would appear that Hodgdon is now producing their Clays line in Canada, but I still haven't seen any Universal on the shelf in the USA in almost 3 years now.

See also the 444 forum's sticky for load data. There's a lot of good Alliant data in there.

https://www.marlinowners.com/threads/444-marlin%C2%AE-master-reload-table-revised-10-11-2022.289881/

 

Is Biden president in your country also?

 

2400 or unique.

 

As I said gents, NO major shipments pistol or shotgun powders have hit our shores in a couple of years. All the stocks of Alliant and Hodgon are long sold. In fact our Winchester branch who are the importers of Hodgon scrapped Hodgon imports even pre-covid.

A couple of smaller concerns did manage to get a couple of pallets of Vectan and Lovex powders in from Europe about a year ago but it was sold in hours.

None of the major importers have been able or uninterested in regaining supply or obtaining any new agencies for powder imports. We heard a rumour a shipment of Alliant was returned to the US( or stopped before shipping) and all sorts of wives tales but at the end of the day still no Alliant on the way after a couple of years.

As to verified news reports, even easier option is to email ADI yourself, you will get the same answer we all did almost two years ago.

And it appears to be the end of Trailboss too.

 

As I said gents, NO major shipments pistol or shotgun powders have hit our shores in a couple of years. All the stocks of Alliant and Hodgon are long sold. In fact our Winchester branch who are the importers of Hodgon scrapped Hodgon imports even pre-covid.

A couple of smaller concerns did manage to get a couple of pallets of Vectan and Lovex powders in from Europe about a year ago but it was sold in hours.

None of the major importers have been able or uninterested in regaining supply or obtaining any new agencies for powder imports. We heard a rumour a shipment of Alliant was returned to the US( or stopped before shipping) and all sorts of wives tales but at the end of the day still no Alliant on the way after a couple of years.

As to verified news reports, even easier option is to email ADI yourself, you will get the same answer we all did almost two years ago.

And it appears to be the end of Trailboss too.

Sorry to hear it ☹

Without pistol and shotgun powder, I'd probably be looking to get something in the 4198 burn range and load up some straight up 444. From what I was reading, ADI is still making runs of that rifle powder... Or has that changed, as well?

I will say this: Alliant JUST started showing up here, too, after an almost 3 year hiatus. So maybe it'll start showing up there again, in the future.

 

With a 240 gr. bullet:
30 gr. of 2400 will give you about 2000psi @ 30k psi
27 gr. of 2400 will give you about 1900psi @ 24k psi
19 gr. of Unique will give you about 1700psi @ 34k psi
27 gr. of Blue Dot will give you about 2000psi @ 30k psi

 

I dont think you fellas are reading what I am writing. No office but let me spell it out.

THERE ARE NO MORE SOURCES OF PISTOL POWDERS INCLUDING ALLIANT LEFT IN COUNTRY.

My question was for (safely) reduced loads of rifle powders

 

Sixtus, is your gubmint following the UK stance on powders. Many of the Hodgdon powders have been banned allegedly due to being carcinogenic

"REACH Compliance Legislation".

It is ONLY those that have a "Y" in column three - Exempt from REACH authorisation - that are now available to us for use in the UK.


Looks as though 2400 is OK so I wonder what the heck is going on other than someone trying to ban pistols by the back door.

Manufacturer	Product name	Exempt from REACH authorisation	Notes
Hodgdon	HP-38	Y	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
Hodgdon	H110	Y	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
Hodgdon	H414	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction)
Hodgdon	H380	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction)
Hodgdon	Lil' Gun	Y	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
Hodgdon	Hybrid 100V	Y	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
Hodgdon	HS-6	Y	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
Hodgdon	H335	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction)
Hodgdon	BL-C(2)	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction)
Hodgdon	Titewad	Y	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
Hodgdon	Titegroup	Y	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
Hodgdon	Longshot	Y	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
Hodgdon	US869	Y	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
Hodgdon	LEVEREVOLUTION	Y	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
Hodgdon	SUPERFORMANCE	Y	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
Hodgdon	CFE Pistol	Y	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
Hodgdon	CFE 223	Y	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
Hodgdon	CFE BLK	Y	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
Hodgdon	H4227	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
Hodgdon	H4895	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
Hodgdon	H4198	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
Hodgdon	Varget	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
Hodgdon	H4350	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
Hodgdon	H50BMG	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
Hodgdon	H4831	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
Hodgdon	H4831SC	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
Hodgdon	H1000	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
Hodgdon	Retumbo	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
Hodgdon	H322	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
Hodgdon	Benchmark	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
Hodgdon	Hi-Skor 700X	Y
Hodgdon	Hi-Skor 800X	Y
Hodgdon	Clays (AS-30N)	Y
Hodgdon	International (AS-50N)	Y
Hodgdon	Universal (AP-70N)	Y
Hodgdon	Trailboss	Y	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
Hodgdon	Pyrodex P	N/A	Inconclusive (ingredients witheld as trade secret)
Hodgdon	Pyrodex RS	N/A	Inconclusive (ingredients witheld as trade secret)
Hodgdon	Pyrodex Select	N/A	Inconclusive (ingredients witheld as trade secret)
Hodgdon	Triple 7	N/A	Inconclusive (ingredients witheld as trade secret)
IMR	Blue	Y
IMR	Green	Y
IMR	Red	Y
IMR	UnEqual	Y
IMR	IMR 3031	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMR	IMR 4007SSC	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMR	IMR 4064	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMR	IMR 4198	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMR	IMR 4227	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMR	IMR 4320	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMR	IMR 4350	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMR	SR4756	Y
IMR	SR4759	Y
IMR	IMR 4831	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMR	IMR 4895	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMR	SR7625	Y
IMR	IMR 7828	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMR	PB	Y
IMR	IMR 7828SSC	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMR	IMR 4166	Y
IMR	IMR 4451	Y
IMR	IMR 4955	Y
IMR	IMR 7977	Y
IMR	IMR 8133	Y
IMR	IMR 8208 XBR	N	2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
Alliant Powder	Bullseye	Y
Alliant Powder	Power Pistol	Y
Alliant Powder	BE-86	Y
Alliant Powder	E3	Y
Alliant Powder	Pro Reach	Y
Alliant Powder	20/28	Y
Alliant Powder	Steel	Y
Alliant Powder	Unique	Y
Alliant Powder	Sport Pistol	Y
Alliant Powder	Promo	Y
Alliant Powder	Extra-Lite	Y
Alliant Powder	.410	Y
Alliant Powder	Herco	Y
Alliant Powder	2400	Y
Alliant Powder	Green Dot	Y
Alliant Powder	Blue Dot	Y
Alliant Powder	Red Dot	Y
Alliant Powder	Clay Dot	Y
Alliant Powder	American Select	Y
Alliant Powder	Black MZ	Y
Alliant Powder	Blue MZ	Y
Alliant Powder	Power Pro series	Y
Alliant Powder	AR Comp	N	Diisopentyl phthalate (toxic to reproduction)
Alliant Powder	Reloader series	N	Diisopentyl phthalate (toxic to reproduction)
Ramshot	Nitro 100 NF	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Ramshot Zip	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate #2	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate #5	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Ramshot Silhouette	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Ramshot True Blue	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate TCM	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate 4100	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Ramshot Enforcer	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate 11FS	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Ramshot X-Terminator	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate 2230	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Ramshot TAC	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Ramshot Hunter	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Ramshot Big Game	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Ramshot Magnum	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate 2520	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Ramshot Competition	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate #7	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate #9	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate 1680	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate 5744	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate 2200	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate 2460	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate 2700	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate Magpro	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate Solo 1000	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate LT-30	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate LT-32	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate 2015	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate 2495	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate 4064	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Accurate 4350	N	Dibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
Ramshot	Blackhorn 209	N/A	Inconclusive (ingredients witheld as trade secret)
Vihtavuori	N100 series	Y
Vihtavuori	N300 series	Y
Vihtavuori	N500 series	Y
Reload Swiss	RS12	Y
Reload Swiss	RS20	Y
Reload Swiss	RS24	Y
Reload Swiss	RS30	Y
Reload Swiss	RS36	Y
Reload Swiss	RS40	Y
Reload Swiss	RS50	Y
Reload Swiss	RS52	Y
Reload Swiss	RS60	Y
Reload Swiss	RS62	Y
Reload Swiss	RS70	Y
Reload Swiss	RS80	Y

 

With a 240 gr. bullet:
38 gr. of 4198 will give you about 2000 fps @ 24k psi
35 gr. of 4198 will give you about 1900 fps @ 20k psi

 

4198.. RL 7

 

With a 240 gr. bullet:
37 gr. of RL-7 will give you about 2000 fps @ 24k psi

 

Interesting thing about that list: the last I heard IMR has dropped SR4759 and PB several years ago. Really nice that a powder that is no longer manufactured passes their muster.

 

I've never used the combo personally, but I've read some about using 4198 in 444, and it would be my choice for a rifle powder. IMR4227 would be useful in 444 as well, if you happened upon some.

 

I dont think you fellas are reading what I am writing. No office but let me spell it out.

THERE ARE NO MORE SOURCES OF PISTOL POWDERS INCLUDING ALLIANT LEFT IN COUNTRY.

My question was for (safely) reduced loads of rifle powders

Do you have? Can you get H4895?
H4895 is a powder that can be reduce to 60% of published load data. https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads-2.pdf

Hodgdon On-Line, for the 444 Max, is 53.0gr H4895 behind a 240gr Sierra JHP.
53.0 x 0.6 =31.8gr Min.
Gordons Reloading Tool* doesn't recommend you start that low. I wouldn't start lower than 44.0gr with a 240gr bullet.
-GRT gives an estimated muzzle velocity of 1800fps with 44gr of H4895 behind a 240gr Hornady XTP #44200.
-GRT estimates 44.0gr of H4895 is about 75% case volume.
-GRT estimates 46.0gr of H4895 is about 80% case volume.
-GRT estimates 53.0gr of H4895 is about 92% case volume.

I use 50.0gr of H4895 for plinking/gong ringing with 240gr Campro Plated bullets. I get 1975-2000fps with them in my 444's.
Other than that I primaraly use H322 & N130 in my 444's but their not what I'd call light or reduced.

*Gordons Reloading Tool is a free program similar to Quick Load. Keep in mind GRT uses European CIP instead of North Americian CUP.

The other unobtanium powder for light/reduced loads is TrailBoss https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/trail-boss-reduced-loads-2018-2.pdf

 

Thanks fellas for all the replies on reduced loads. We can get H4895 here were ADI makes it as Ar2206H. Looks like a couple of good options to keep blast etc down in a 444.

Yes very dire situation for pistol and shotgun reloaders particularly as the failures to provide all appear to include our factories and importers at the same time. Also coincides with recent law changes to limit powder transportation along with transport companies refusing to transport it.

If just one thing occurred it might be easier to believe its temporary but with so many major players including the government coinciding on this shortage a lot of folks are wondering if we will ever see them again.

 

Is there no way to get it sidways?

 

And the replies settle it, Im getting a 444, thanks fellas!

 

Can't blame you there. I've always had an eye for them, but I've never been able to land one. Loadbooks USA has a data manual for them, I'd have to have one if acquiring a rifle in the caliber. For that matter, I have to have one for every caliber I load.

 

Younger shooters might take note of this thread. There is no immutable law preventing this situation from occurring here.

 

There are a lot more "toxic to reproduction" things that governments do than any little miniscule amount of smokeless gun powder could EVER do to a reloader. What a load of bull.