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444 marlin loads equating 44 mag carbine

3.2K views 20 replies 12 participants last post by  SSgtYoungGW  
#1 ·
Dire straits here in Australia fellas, no pistol powders have hit our shores in a couple years and our famous powder maker ADI( who supply and rebrand quite a few powders for your Hodgon company) has somehow forgotten how to make them. The full story is they built a new factory and 'didnt set it up right 'to make the pistol lines anymore( most bizarre excuse ever) so no more As-30, As-50, Ap-70 etc( or what you guys call Clays, international and Universal etc) ever again. Also our magnum pistol/fastest rifle powder 2205 ( Hodgon H4227) which feeds top end 357 and 44 mag loads for some reason they have just decided never to run again. A lot of Aussies suspicious this is all a plot to spell the end of pistol cart reloading here forever but time will tell.....

Onto why I am posting. For those with decent stocks of 44 projectiles used to shooting pigs, using a 444 marlin might be an option. Also looking at safely reduced charges in 444 with rifle powders as 44mag power is all we need a lot of the time, and keeping blast and recoil down somewhat for the shoulder and hunting dogs ears is a bonus, especially given the high numbers shot.

Thanks in advance for any links or personal data shared
 
#2 · (Edited)
Wow. This is the first I've heard of this plant change and the loss of Universal and the rest of the Clays from ADI. Are there linkable news articles on this situation? Love universal for .357 mag mid loads.

Do you have access to Accurate powders (or Shooter's World) in Australia? 5744/Buffalo Rifle would be my first suggestion, but you are probably already aware of that one. I run a 44 mag carbine equivalent load with 240 JSPs in my 444P using Buffalo Rifle with good results.

Not sure what the situation for imported powders is there.

Edit: Did some reading. Looks like locally produced (ADI) and maybe Alliant are the only options at the moment? Boy... I suppose I'd be looking at loads using 2400. There are 44 carbine equivalent options using 2400. Or maybe reduced loads with something like Unique, Herco, or Blue Dot... The Lyman cast bullet handbook has load data with 240 and lower cast bullets for all of these powders, if I remember correctly. It would appear that Hodgdon is now producing their Clays line in Canada, but I still haven't seen any Universal on the shelf in the USA in almost 3 years now.

See also the 444 forum's sticky for load data. There's a lot of good Alliant data in there.
 
#5 · (Edited)
As I said gents, NO major shipments pistol or shotgun powders have hit our shores in a couple of years. All the stocks of Alliant and Hodgon are long sold. In fact our Winchester branch who are the importers of Hodgon scrapped Hodgon imports even pre-covid.

A couple of smaller concerns did manage to get a couple of pallets of Vectan and Lovex powders in from Europe about a year ago but it was sold in hours.

None of the major importers have been able or uninterested in regaining supply or obtaining any new agencies for powder imports. We heard a rumour a shipment of Alliant was returned to the US( or stopped before shipping) and all sorts of wives tales but at the end of the day still no Alliant on the way after a couple of years.

As to verified news reports, even easier option is to email ADI yourself, you will get the same answer we all did almost two years ago.

And it appears to be the end of Trailboss too.
 
#8 ·
As I said gents, NO major shipments pistol or shotgun powders have hit our shores in a couple of years. All the stocks of Alliant and Hodgon are long sold. In fact our Winchester branch who are the importers of Hodgon scrapped Hodgon imports even pre-covid.

A couple of smaller concerns did manage to get a couple of pallets of Vectan and Lovex powders in from Europe about a year ago but it was sold in hours.

None of the major importers have been able or uninterested in regaining supply or obtaining any new agencies for powder imports. We heard a rumour a shipment of Alliant was returned to the US( or stopped before shipping) and all sorts of wives tales but at the end of the day still no Alliant on the way after a couple of years.

As to verified news reports, even easier option is to email ADI yourself, you will get the same answer we all did almost two years ago.

And it appears to be the end of Trailboss too.
Sorry to hear it ☹

Without pistol and shotgun powder, I'd probably be looking to get something in the 4198 burn range and load up some straight up 444. From what I was reading, ADI is still making runs of that rifle powder... Or has that changed, as well?

I will say this: Alliant JUST started showing up here, too, after an almost 3 year hiatus. So maybe it'll start showing up there again, in the future.
 
#12 ·
Sixtus, is your gubmint following the UK stance on powders. Many of the Hodgdon powders have been banned allegedly due to being carcinogenic

"REACH Compliance Legislation".

It is ONLY those that have a "Y" in column three - Exempt from REACH authorisation - that are now available to us for use in the UK.


Looks as though 2400 is OK so I wonder what the heck is going on other than someone trying to ban pistols by the back door.


ManufacturerProduct nameExempt from REACH authorisationNotes
HodgdonHP-38YDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
HodgdonH110YDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
HodgdonH414NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction)
HodgdonH380NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction)
HodgdonLil' GunYDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
HodgdonHybrid 100VYDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
HodgdonHS-6YDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
HodgdonH335NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction)
HodgdonBL-C(2)NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction)
HodgdonTitewadYDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
HodgdonTitegroupYDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
HodgdonLongshotYDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
HodgdonUS869YDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
HodgdonLEVEREVOLUTIONYDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
HodgdonSUPERFORMANCEYDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
HodgdonCFE PistolYDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
HodgdonCFE 223YDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
HodgdonCFE BLKYDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
HodgdonH4227N2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
HodgdonH4895N2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
HodgdonH4198N2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
HodgdonVargetN2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
HodgdonH4350N2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
HodgdonH50BMGN2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
HodgdonH4831N2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
HodgdonH4831SCN2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
HodgdonH1000N2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
HodgdonRetumboN2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
HodgdonH322N2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
HodgdonBenchmarkN2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
HodgdonHi-Skor 700XY
HodgdonHi-Skor 800XY
HodgdonClays (AS-30N)Y
HodgdonInternational (AS-50N)Y
HodgdonUniversal (AP-70N)Y
HodgdonTrailbossYDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction) <0.1%
HodgdonPyrodex PN/AInconclusive (ingredients witheld as trade secret)
HodgdonPyrodex RSN/AInconclusive (ingredients witheld as trade secret)
HodgdonPyrodex SelectN/AInconclusive (ingredients witheld as trade secret)
HodgdonTriple 7N/AInconclusive (ingredients witheld as trade secret)
IMRBlueY
IMRGreenY
IMRRedY
IMRUnEqualY
IMRIMR 3031N2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMRIMR 4007SSCN2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMRIMR 4064N2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMRIMR 4198N2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMRIMR 4227N2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMRIMR 4320N2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMRIMR 4350N2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMRSR4756Y
IMRSR4759Y
IMRIMR 4831N2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMRIMR 4895N2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMRSR7625Y
IMRIMR 7828N2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMRPBY
IMRIMR 7828SSCN2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
IMRIMR 4166Y
IMRIMR 4451Y
IMRIMR 4955Y
IMRIMR 7977Y
IMRIMR 8133Y
IMRIMR 8208 XBRN2,4-dinitrotoluene (carcinogenic)
Alliant PowderBullseyeY
Alliant PowderPower PistolY
Alliant PowderBE-86Y
Alliant PowderE3Y
Alliant PowderPro ReachY
Alliant Powder20/28Y
Alliant PowderSteelY
Alliant PowderUniqueY
Alliant PowderSport PistolY
Alliant PowderPromoY
Alliant PowderExtra-LiteY
Alliant Powder.410Y
Alliant PowderHercoY
Alliant Powder2400Y
Alliant PowderGreen DotY
Alliant PowderBlue DotY
Alliant PowderRed DotY
Alliant PowderClay DotY
Alliant PowderAmerican SelectY
Alliant PowderBlack MZY
Alliant PowderBlue MZY
Alliant PowderPower Pro seriesY
Alliant PowderAR CompNDiisopentyl phthalate (toxic to reproduction)
Alliant PowderReloader seriesNDiisopentyl phthalate (toxic to reproduction)
RamshotNitro 100 NFNDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotRamshot ZipNDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate #2NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate #5NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotRamshot SilhouetteNDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotRamshot True BlueNDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate TCMNDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate 4100NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotRamshot EnforcerNDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate 11FSNDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotRamshot X-TerminatorNDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate 2230NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotRamshot TACNDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotRamshot HunterNDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotRamshot Big GameNDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotRamshot MagnumNDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate 2520NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotRamshot CompetitionNDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate #7NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate #9NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate 1680NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate 5744NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate 2200NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate 2460NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate 2700NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate MagproNDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate Solo 1000NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate LT-30NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate LT-32NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate 2015NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate 2495NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate 4064NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotAccurate 4350NDibutyl Phthalate (toxic to reproduction). Ramshot looking to change formula "within the next year or so".
RamshotBlackhorn 209N/AInconclusive (ingredients witheld as trade secret)
VihtavuoriN100 seriesY
VihtavuoriN300 seriesY
VihtavuoriN500 seriesY
Reload SwissRS12Y
Reload SwissRS20Y
Reload SwissRS24Y
Reload SwissRS30Y
Reload SwissRS36Y
Reload SwissRS40Y
Reload SwissRS50Y
Reload SwissRS52Y
Reload SwissRS60Y
Reload SwissRS62Y
Reload SwissRS70Y
Reload SwissRS80Y
 
#15 ·
I dont think you fellas are reading what I am writing. No office but let me spell it out.

THERE ARE NO MORE SOURCES OF PISTOL POWDERS INCLUDING ALLIANT LEFT IN COUNTRY.

My question was for (safely) reduced loads of rifle powders
:)

Do you have? Can you get H4895?
H4895 is a powder that can be reduce to 60% of published load data. https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads-2.pdf

Hodgdon On-Line, for the 444 Max, is 53.0gr H4895 behind a 240gr Sierra JHP.
53.0 x 0.6 =31.8gr Min.
Gordons Reloading Tool* doesn't recommend you start that low. I wouldn't start lower than 44.0gr with a 240gr bullet.
-GRT gives an estimated muzzle velocity of 1800fps with 44gr of H4895 behind a 240gr Hornady XTP #44200.
-GRT estimates 44.0gr of H4895 is about 75% case volume.
-GRT estimates 46.0gr of H4895 is about 80% case volume.
-GRT estimates 53.0gr of H4895 is about 92% case volume.

I use 50.0gr of H4895 for plinking/gong ringing with 240gr Campro Plated bullets. I get 1975-2000fps with them in my 444's.
Other than that I primaraly use H322 & N130 in my 444's but their not what I'd call light or reduced.

*Gordons Reloading Tool is a free program similar to Quick Load. Keep in mind GRT uses European CIP instead of North Americian CUP.

The other unobtanium powder for light/reduced loads is TrailBoss https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/trail-boss-reduced-loads-2018-2.pdf
 
#16 ·
Thanks fellas for all the replies on reduced loads. We can get H4895 here were ADI makes it as Ar2206H. Looks like a couple of good options to keep blast etc down in a 444.

Yes very dire situation for pistol and shotgun reloaders particularly as the failures to provide all appear to include our factories and importers at the same time. Also coincides with recent law changes to limit powder transportation along with transport companies refusing to transport it.

If just one thing occurred it might be easier to believe its temporary but with so many major players including the government coinciding on this shortage a lot of folks are wondering if we will ever see them again.