I have a Marlin 1895 in .444 Marlin, and wouldn’t hesitate using it on Grizz or Brown Bear one little bit. The 280 gr bullets you mentioned will be the right combo! That rifle and load combo will flatten anything in North America, guaranteed!
I would take the ‘06 as a backup weapon.


Hawk

 

Excellent post, and what a problem to have! I hope you return from your hunt with both a big bear and a deer!

Honestly, I'd be happy with either rifle, slight preference for the 30-06 simply because I've used mine more than I've used a lever action for hunting.

I took this bear in Alaska a few years ago, with my 30-06, but admittedly it took several shots. I was using 200 grain Nosler Partitions. All my shots were at less than 50 yards while the bear, my guide, and I were all moving. It got pretty exciting for a bit. At that range, I would have loved to have had my 45-70 Marlin in hand, with some strong loads:

Regards, Guy

 

I won’t “weigh in” on your question because I’m not much of a bear hunter. But, please know I enjoyed your post. I hope you are successful and I hope you post a hunt report with pictures!

 

No experience with bear's but I would think either rifle would take the bear down. That is a pretty large bear in the picture. I enjoyed the post with pictures.

 

Great topic. As Guy mentioned. The 30-06 or 444 would be a toss up. I’d probably have to try the 444 though. Looks to shoot plenty well and I dig those Swifts.

 

The 444 Marlin will take down a Grizz, these past posts on MO verify that:

The 444 takes care of another problem grizzly

Always lots of guys who don't live in bear country wonder whether the old 444 is capable of stopping a grizzly. The short answer is yes. I would go one step further and say not only is it capable, it is a very good choice. While I have taken a number of bears with the 444, this season I had to...

www.marlinowners.com

Marlin 444 & Grizzly

Hi all. I've been lurking here for years but have never posted before. I know lots of guys are always asking about how effective the 444 is for grizzly bears. I live in the Yukon where I have made my living running a fishing lodge & guiding hunters for almost 30-years now. The good old Marlin...

www.marlinowners.com

 

Build yourself a target, something like four inches of saturated paper, a sheet of 1/2 to 1 inch ply wood (to simulate heavy bear bone), repeat until about 30 inches deep...then shoot your loads into it, that will tell you what you need to know. Something like this:

444/44Mag bullet tests

Have pictures, but add picture icon is missing. The same bullet fired out of a 44 Magnum rifle, then fired out of a 444. All loads put together 100 fps below-listed max according to some manual, not chronographed, so FPS could be off a bit. Fired into a matrix of 1.5 inches soaked paper, a...

www.marlinowners.com

and

bullet tests focus on 30 cal 190 hawk and 35 Rem.

bullet tests focus on 30 cal 190 hawk and 35 cal. Test media was one inch soaked magazines, 1/2 inch fiber board (simulate a heavy bone), the rest soaked magazines. Test target at 50yds, chron0graph 10 ft from muzzle. Unless factory (fac) is specified, these are handloads, loaded at two...

www.marlinowners.com

See the 338 Win Mag part of the test, this is the old school aluminum silver tip, once considered an ideal big bear load, and would be a good point to make a comparison from. I personally am not going to take any ones word on bullet performance, especially against dangerous game, gonna check that out for myself.

The 240 Swift is my 444 load of choice, and is my choice for bear. The 280 gr, being heavier and of much less velocity may actually penetrate less, best bet is to test.

 

Seems like either one of those would do the job, just comes down which one you feel more comfortable with IMO. Personally never hunted bear, but I'm quicker with follow up shots with a lever gun than a bolt and if something was chasin' me the size of something that big, I'd want to be able to pull the trigger as fast as I could! YMMV!

 

My thoughts exactly. Either rifle is capable of killing a bear that size if you do your job.

Which one can you hit with at bear range?

Which one can you put a second or third round in the critter fastest???

That's what would be the deciding point for me.

And don't forget to post some pictures of the hunt -- we love to live vicariously through others hunts!

 

Both are good choices I think a 30-06 will be better at longer ranges, but from what I’ve heard bears at most will come from 150 yards. Which is good range for the 444 and since it is in a fine tuned lever action I think you could have faster follow up shots with the with it. I have heard a story where multiple guys got charged by a brown bear that was at 100 yards it took 9 shots from a 30-06 and a 7mm mag to kill it, it died at their feet. Though I have nothing against the 30-06 we have a model 700 in 30-06, and my grandpa killed over 30 deer with it along with 2 large black bears. I would say the 444, but I’ve never hunted or been attacked by a bear, though I plan on hunting them in Alaska with my 45-70 GBL marlin.

 

I own both but never shot a bear, still building preference points in WI. Really cool pictures though. Nice to see one can actually hunt in Japan.

 

Thanks for the replies fellas. M700, that is interesting stuff. A guy would think the 200 gr partition would be ideal. But iI bet there are guys who shoot .416s that have similar stories. Just goes to show that nothing is guarenteed I guess.

Ret_Eng, those stories from Yukon are gold. I read through it all. Had to turn into a 444 vs 45-70 thing of course😭

GrayMustang, I don't really need to go shooting stuff, Mt_Sourdough, aka ScooterBackfired has done it all for us on youtube. I've watched your bullet tests as well, very interesting! One thing I've seemed to pick up is that extreme penetration is not always the best factor to judge on, nor weight retention. I've used the 280 swift on a fair number of deer and it penetrates better the longer the shots. I figure the 240 would be a bit faster and I think would have even less penetration in most sitautions. The deer here are stout, like red stags, and will regulary weigh 450lbs in the rut, makes for interesting biopsies.

Marlinluver, turkey, Foley.. yeah I guess it will come down to feel. When the season starts in October the woods are tight and visibility is rarely more than 50yrds. Later in Nov it opens up, might carry the 94 till then. Bear season ends 1/31 and deer 3/31. Six months of deer hunting, no tags, no limits. It's Paradise man.

 

Good luck this season.

 

Hunting season starts for me in October and while it's mostly deer the possibiltiy of running into a brown bear is quite real and has happened in the past. I have been working on a win 94 in 444 for a year or so, got her tuned pretty well, action slicked up, innards dremmeled to accept slighly longer rounds, trigger at 3.5 lbs, and a few other things I can't recall.

She shoots swift 280gr A-frames @ 2280fps behind 45gr IMR-4198 with 215s and starline brass @ 2.54in COAL. Extraction just starts to get a bit sticky as that point so I'm not thinking of going any higher. It has microgroove-ish 1/38 twist (yeah I know, that's supposed to be a marlin only thing, but it definetly has it on this 1998ish win 94 and no I don't dig it, would much rather have 1/20 so longer projectiles would stabilize)

I get decent groups with this load, 1.5in or so at 110yrds and 3in at 220yrds. I think the concensus is that the 280 A-frame is up to the task of brown bear. I have 240gr cutting edge flat nose projectiles but they dont fly well in my wincrogroove (ragged hole at 110, 6in at 220) I don't have and cannot get any other projectiles up to the task, and am not casting at this point. I've put 150+ rounds through her this summer and she's a realiable gun. View attachment 857022
View attachment 857023

And......... I have a good ol Rem BDL 700 in 30-06. Does everything I've ever asked of it. It shoots everything stuffed in her at an inch or so, damn sweet ol $500 gun. I have a pile rounds loaded with 180gr nosler partitions @ 2750fps behind 57gr of IMR4350.

I'm a bit torn at the moment, I would love to flatten some deer with the 94, she's fun to carry and the 2nd shoot comes quick. But the possibility of bear is real. They can reach quite impressive weights and have 4in+ of fat on them. I am licensed for bear and can shoot them without being threathened (I live in Japan, things are different here) Most bears are in the 400-500 lb range but the rare one will go about double that. They are related and similar to the kamchatka bear, if not a bit bigger. View attachment 857024
The above bear was trapped in April and weighed 470kg after hibernation.

View attachment 857025
Friend of mine shot this bear last October.



So if it were your choice, and the shots were 200yrds or less, which gun would you feel better having in the woods during the deer rut?

Win 94 with 280gr A-frames at 2280fps with 2x8 luppy
or
Rem 700 30-06 with 180gr partitions at 2750fps with 2x12 luppy


Getting another gun is a PITA so these are my only two choices this year.

Let me know what ya think.. or maybe I'm just splitting hairs

I‘ve only taken one bear..about 75-100yards away in a tree, dogs below it..knocked the bear outta the tree! 1895GS 350gr.Soft Nose factory loads..

I wouldn’t take a 200 yard shot at a deer with a .444 unless I practiced at that distance and knowing my drop and wind dope.. scoped or not. I’m very confident in its penetration and hole size for any bear. Funny you brought this up, because I will be taking my .444 into the woods this year for the first time to hunt both Black Bear and Deer ( because..I finally bagged a buck with the .308MX…time to rotate!).

Now, got to get to the range…to check my drop and wind dope..in case I ever get a 200 yard shot at a deer here, in wooded East Tennessee!

 

Both will work great, pick the one your most comfortable with.

 

I would hunt with the 444 early in the season. 30–06 later when the leaves are off. I own a 45/70 and 375 H&H for bear. A friend of mine carried a 444 for bear and had no problems with it’s effectiveness on grizzlies.

 

I value your opinion on this big-bear stuff greatly. Seems to me that you live among them and know what you're talking about.

Guy

 

You have the right combination for your 444. Cast bullets and a stout load behind them. The factory ammo bullets are not built heavy enough to penetrate enough for your purposes.

Make sure that your 30-06 bullets are also heavily built. I'd think you'd want to go with 220 grainers. Something made to hold together and retain its weight for penetration, like a Barnes or a Nosler. For factory ammo, the heavier bullets are usually more strongly constructed. And there are a lot more choices of factory ammo for 30-06 than for 444 Marlin.

I'm glad that you are able to load your own.

Good luck on your hunt and be safe.

Personally, I'd use the 444. I'd enjoy it more that way.

 

take them both and grab the one you are in the mood to use that day. Both will do the job.

 

good luck, that 94-444 must kick pretty good.

 

I like your idea of using the 444 in the first part of the season and the 06 when the distances open up...

Ganbatte...

 

i have never been bear hunting. but from my vast experience of killing deer with both calibers, i would say neither 444 or 30-06 will bounce off a bear,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

With unknown shot distance I would not hesitate with a 30/06 in 168-180 grain.

 

I’d recommend the 30-06. I want something in the 2600 fps range for hydrostatic shock. IMO straight walled pistol calibers don’t have the dead right there,AKA stopping power, when brain and spinal cords are missed. I’ve shot a few really small black bear with heart and lung shots using 45-70 guide guns and they ALL run like they weren’t shot. The 30-06 anchors them with the EXACT same shot placement. You could always have your 06’ bored over to a 35 whelen if you wanted a designated Bear gun. Heck, I shot a 7’1” black bear a few years back with my 300 RUM. I used a 200 grain Nosler Partition I loaded around 3000 FPS. i took out both lungs and part of the heart.the bear did a back flip, got up, and made it a good 45 yards before expiring. I want enough gun when bear hunting.

 

I have both, but if I were hunting bear and knew most likely the shots would be less than 150 yds. I'm taking the Big bore.
Straight from Brophy's book.

Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk

 

Ive wasted a lot of time reading (marketing hype to sell guns and calibers) until I actually witnessed several Bear killed with various calibers.

I’ve seen several small to mid size black bear shot with both calibers and can tell you neither will drop a bear in its tracks consistently. The first year I went with dog runners we treed 13 Bear. The weight ranges of the bear were 119 to 365 pounds. The only one the never moved and died Instantly was mine. I shot it with a 300 RUM and a factory loaded ,first generation, 180 swift scirocco with a shoulder shot. The bear weighed 249 pounds. Smallest black I’ve ever shot. My buddy shot his little bear with 180 grain Nosler ballistic tip out a 300 RUM. The bear hit the ground and tried to get back up but never regained to its feet. All the rest were shot with 444 Marlins, 45-70 govt, 30-06, 20 and 12 guage slugs. All with great shot placement. They ALL hit the ground and ran like they weren’t hit. Most made it 50 to 60 yards before expiring. Besides the 300 RUMs, the 30-06 was the only caliber that seemed to stop them quicker. Also if factory 220 grain bullets were used in 30-06’ the couple of bear watched get shot traveled just as long as the other calibers. The lighter 165 and 180 grain core locts in 30-06 dropped them quicker. I’m talking within a few feet to a couple of yards. Me, I’d just take my 375 RUM with and not loose any sleep if I got charged.

I still have video of a bear I shot between the shoulders with a 45-70 Government back in the early 90’s. It was a little over a 125 yards. You can see the bullet enter the bear perfectly. No blood, no bear. I’m sure it bled internally and died. I and my guide search for 2 days with zero luck. I was using Winchester 405 grain ammo. I’m sure it ran out of steam at that distance. Still makes scratch my head to this day. Not a fan of straight wall pistol calibers and never will be. They are fun for plinking but I won’t hunt with them. A gal shot a huge blackie with 165 grain core loct in 30-06 a day early. It dropped Where it stood.

 

I liked your input and personal experiences, but this, (

I've wasted a lot of time reading (marketing hype to sell guns and calibers) until I actually witnessed several Bears killed with various calibers.

I’ve seen several small to mid-size black bear shot with both calibers and can tell you neither will drop a bear in its tracks consistently. The first year I went with dog runners we treed 13 Bear. The weight ranges of the bear were 119 to 365 pounds. The only one the never moved and died Instantly was mine. I shot it with a 300 RUM and a factory-loaded, first-generation, 180 swift sciroccos with a shoulder shot. The bear weighed 249 pounds. The smallest black I’ve ever shot. My buddy shot his little bear with 180 grain Nosler ballistic tip out a 300 RUM. The bear hit the ground and tried to get back up but never regained its feet. All the rest were shot with 444 Marlins, 45-70 govt, 30-06, 20, and 12 gauge slugs. All with great shot placement. They ALL hit the ground and ran like they weren’t hit. Most made it 50 to 60 yards before expiring. Besides the 300 RUMs, the 30-06 was the only caliber that seemed to stop them quickly. Also if factory 220-grain bullets were used in 30-06’ a couple of bears watched get shot traveled just as long as the other calibers. The lighter 165 and 180-grain core locts in 30-06 dropped them quicker. I’m talking within a few feet to a couple of yards. Me, I’d just take my 375 RUM with me and not lose any sleep if I got charged.

I still have a video of a bear I shot between the shoulders with a 45-70 Government back in the early ’90s. It was a little over 125 yards. You can see the bullet enter the bear perfectly. No blood, no bear. I’m sure it bled internally and died. I and my guide search for 2 days with zero luck. I was using Winchester 405 grain ammo. I’m sure it ran out of steam at that distance. Still makes me scratch my head to this day. Not a fan of straight wall pistol calibers and never will be. They are fun for plinking but I won’t hunt with them. A gal shot a huge blackie with 165-grain core loct in 30-06 a day early. It dropped Where it stood.

I liked your input and personal experiences, but this, (Not a fan of straight wall pistol calibers and never will be.)
Someone above said it also. The 444 Is Not a Pistol Cal.

RP

 

I did not see what sights you had on your two rifles. That should be a consideration. If I were going to use a 30'06 , I would want the heaviest bullet I could find. If I am clear on your question you will nt be"hunting" bears but may come across one. This could translate to less than ideal shooting situation I would want a bigger rifle, bigger bullet and a low power scope, i.e.. 338WinMag or 375 H&H.I have killed a grizzly with a 338WinMag 225gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. He was not aware I was there and the shot was just over 100yds. He was a 8.5 foot bear. I would not want to be close enough to him to use an iron sighted 444.

Simply stated if your choice is those two rifles, heavy load your 30'06 , get a good low power scope and practice close range snap shooting.
Cheers!
🍻

 

But it uses pistol bullets so it might as well be. All I can tell you is in my limited experience it does not have the knockdown power of a bottleneck rifle cartridge that so many writers give it credit for.​

 

The Hornady 265 grain is not a pistol bullet neither are the 405-grain Beartooth bullets for reloading. Several companies make heavy 444 marlin ammo.it doesn't use pistol bullets. I do admire your experience and understand the 3006 dropping bear probably because of the quick internal damage of that 165 grain. Who knows. I own a 444 and I know it doesn't shoot pistol bullets, but neither does my 300RUM. I'd just take my 458 win mag and be done with it.