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Winchester 748?

6.9K views 14 replies 13 participants last post by  Darkker  
#1 ·
I was in Bass Pro yesterday and they had a few powders in.
I was contemplating CFE 223 when this old gentleman comes up and says that 748 is the best thing for 223 period.
Hmmm - never played with either one and what I need to load for is 300 AAC 123 ->165gr bullets.
I use 2400, H110, Lil'Gun, 5744 and 1680 right now - pretty fond of the 2400 and 5744 so far.
Anyway - the challenge is the heavier bullets combined with the 223 cartridge base. I'd like to get those 123's up to varmint speeds.
Right now the best I can get is around 2,100 fps.
So any opinions on 748 and or CFE 223? Neither Winchester nor Hodgdon have loads listed for 300 AAC. (matter of fact the two sites look identical)
 
#3 ·
Only thing I have heard about 748 is it gets great velocities but is very temp sensitive
 
#5 ·
IMR-4227 works very well in .221 fireball, it might be a good choice in the .300 blackout since the are basically the same case size

748 does work very well in the .223 / 5.56
 
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#12 ·
Let's deal with this "temp sensitive" nonsense first.
MOST of the problems that get a powder blamed for being sensitive, is from being in the chamber prior to firing. Heat soak happens quickly and is a bugger.
A powder is ONLY insensitive if used in a set of circumstances designed for. Dr. Bramwell has done plenty of good science testing this to death.

748 is fantastical in the 223, yes. It was long the choice and record holder for benchrest shooters in the Deuce.

748 came from the same family of powder as H335/Bl-c(2); yes those are the same in none canister grade, only differ on the as-built end. 748 has the addition of some tin/bismuth compounds, which Hodgdon markets as the miracle inside of CFE for cleaning copper.
CFE223 in bulk grade has been around for well over a decade. Not created by Hodgy, not created for the U.S. military. It was the French around 1900 that discovered it.

Winchester hasn't produced any components in a very long time. Hodgdon sells their name brand for them, but doesn't produce any powder either. The data looks the same to you because it is. It's part of their marketing agreement.
 
#14 ·
Well I guess results I have gotten with certain powders @ different outside ambient temperatures are completely wrong
 
#15 ·
The results aren't wrong, but what is really happening Vs. What you interpreted probably is.

H335 Vs. Varget in the 223 with 55gr bullets showed that varget was FAR more temp sensitive; as an example.
Looking at Hodgdon's own data for temp stability, many of the "improvements" aren't statistically different anyway.

Anyone interested in this, I encourage you to read the tests done by Denton for yourself. Some were published in the note defunct VHA magazines, but since can be found on RSI's website. They are the Pressure Trace people, if someone wants a way to actually measure pressures on their rifle.