Morn'in Longshotz,

I have been going through some of the same mental activities, and the 444 would have the advantage of me already having a number of molds for casting.

If/when when someone buys my RUGER Redlabel, I will then be in the position of needing to make the final choice.

.444 OR 45/70???????????

Well inspite of having 44 molds, the .444, no matter that it is plenty good for a cast bullet gun, just ain't a 45/70. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?!?!?!?!?!?!

Then I have the, "which rifle" question ------------------

But in my case, Winfesters aren't in the mix. Instead, being a long time lover/user of the RUGER #1 and knowing where a nicely priced used one sits along side and even better priced Marlin 45/70 ----------

What to do? The Marlin is almost in reach without the sale of the Redlabel, but there sits that #1 !?!?!?!?

What to do, Oh my, isn't this a great hobby!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol Coot

 

One consideration for me would be what kind of sights. When using glass I find I prefer Marlins.

 

I have had 2 Big Bore 94's in 444. The Timber carbine and the 20" full magazine carbine. I never loaded for either of them, shot 250 Nosler Conley Precision loads out of each. Put peeps on both, had triggers smoothed,etc. I thought they were exceptionally well made rifles, light and slim, gave one to a friend in Missouri and the other to my Marine Son In Law ( who lives close enough to me I can still shoot it,ha)
I won't say "They are a great gun" because you "told me not to",ha.

 

You may want to physically check the twist rate of any Winchester you plan to buy for heavy bullets. Some of the first came out with 1:38 twists, then later they went to a 1:20. Only a few of the "Black Shadow" models had the 1:12 twists. When they were current market items you could call Winchester and ask the twist rate and get three different answers from three different phone answering people on any given day.

 

I thought this was a Marlin forum. ???

 

Oh ooooooooo,

Been caught!

Crusty Deary Ol Coot

 

The timber scout and timber carbine were the first non rimfire lever action rifles I shot. The timber scout was in 44 mag the timber carbine was in 444. They were just like bigger versions of my 9422 mag. they belong to my friend and he won't sell them for a small farm. The other big bore win I have shot was a 358 XTR 94. I think they are great guns. I just cant afford the brand name since they don't make em anymore.

I bought the marlin 1894 ss limited 44 mag because i could not find a timber scout without selling both arm and leg. So i got the short barrel and bought the XS mount and made a marlin timber scout.

The timber scout, timber carbine and black shadow were priced right when introduced but command a premium because there were limited numbers produced and at the end of winchesters levers.

For me personally now that I have the 44 mag I only need to expand range so the XLR 444 will be my choice as it is just a bigger version of my current rifle. The extra range from 100 to 200 yards the extra barrel lenght will be handy. I got zero to 100 covered already.

 

You Are Right Crusty.. A 444 isn't a 45-70.. IT'S BETTER!!! The trick, when shooting cast bullets in it though, is to use a bullet that is gas checked, and then drive it to over 1850fps in the microgroove barrels, and over 1750fps in the ballard.. It just does more work with less lead, less powder, less recoil, and the same on game performance.. It is also quite often more accurate.. 444's tuned right have no problem getting half inch groups at 100 yards with 330 hard cast bullets..

As to the original question, I would go with the Marlin LongShotz.. For a few reasons..

1. The Marlins tend to be more accurate..

2. The Marlins tend to be stronger..

3. The Marlin Company is still around to provide customer service..

Aside from those, a 444 is a wonderful gun to have anyway you look at it..

 

Don't Winchesters have a lot more moving parts than the marlins? I just like the simplicity and the side eject...

But since it was brought up, AHHHH!! The Ruger No. 1

 

I wasn't going to post but what the heck. I was out today with the black shadow in the wind and cold. i was seeing where Hornady 265 FPs shot compared to 300 HPXTPs.
I have both Marlin and Whinnys and like them both, 444 just happened to be a Whinny while 357,41 and 44 are Marlins. Lever hunters are a rare breed out here where the bolt is king. I look at this forum as the bullet and how you send it down range has a few options. The one plus I like in the marlins is the flat top for easy scope mount. I do have a Leupold M8 4x mounted with Warne QD rings and love the power. BTW both 265s and the 300s shot the same at 100 yards.

 

I wasn't going to post but what the heck. I was out today with the black shadow in the wind and cold. i was seeing where Hornady 265 FPs shot compared to 300 HPXTPs.
I have both Marlin and Whinnys and like them both, 444 just happened to be a Whinny while 357,41 and 44 are Marlins. Lever hunters are a rare breed out here where the bolt is king. I look at this forum as the bullet and how you send it down range has a few options. The one plus I like in the marlins is the flat top for easy scope mount. I do have a Leupold M8 4x mounted with Warne QD rings and love the power. BTW both 265s and the 300s shot the same at 100 yards.

Interesting, I have never been able to get 265 gr and 300 gr bullets to hit the same POI at even 50 yards let alone 100! What kind of loads were you using?

 

I thought this was a Marlin forum. ???

I had a black shadow 444 with a 1-20 twist.I found it to be very accurate rifle with jacketed or cast loads.on the down side it is a light rifle with the syn stock and the recoil pad is real thin .I let a buddy of mine talk me out of it as he needed it for pig hunting.(I still have the marlin and T/C in 444).

as far as the marlin forum ? are we so closed minded here that we can't discuss other firearms that shoot the same round??.I am a gun nut and like them all.
pete

 

Seems like most folk are pretty forgiving of us that don't, as yet, have a Marlin, but are wish'in we did after reading all this Marlin lovers stuff.

Been a real RUGER 8) fan for a lot of year, so I for one really enjoy what I can learn on this forum, and the fact that you are most kind in lett'in me tag along.

I am however, a bit fearful :-\ that I might get a touch of the "Marlin Fever" I hear ya talk'in bout. Our primary care Dr. seems to be out of the preventative medication so hope he can deal with the effects!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

 

Yea. Marlinitis is a dreadful disease!

 

?????????? Marlinitis :-[ :-\ :'( ??????????

If ya get a bad case of "it" are you cured forever, or is it a long lasting and reacuring problem????

Seriously, be'in a hands on guy and a do-it-yourself type, I sure would like to get my hands on one of those Marlin lever loops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol Coot

 

I got the T/C bug bad.I like the idea of just buying barrels and switching them out.
this one the 444 is a fire breathing thumper ;D and .430 bullets work just fine.

 

txpete -
gonna need a nomex face protector if loading any H335 in that fire-breathing thumper..
;D ;D ;D

 

;D ;D ;D Oh I like that - got to be impressive!

 

CDOC, there's no cure from what I understand, but you can make it better with regular purchases, er, treatments.

 

Well, if'n someone doesn't relieve me of my Red Label pretty soon, I may have to start treatments with that Marlin 45/70 sitt'in on the same used gun rack as that, ooooooh druel slobber slobber, #1.

Sure would like to try my hand at a good cast bullet thumper again, was really really, REALLY dumb to sell my Marlin 44 mag as it was one fun gun!

Maybe that why I am hav'in problems now, I have a residual case of Marlin fever and need to take "the cure."

Part of the problem at present is, a local friend is going to be selling off the "collection" of his dead brother-in-law. Seems this fellow had a lot of stuff, and be'in as how I do not have an over abundence of extra bucks, I am trying to be good until I see what comes up for sale. Should happen in a month or so.

Now if'n the RUGER Red Label sold, I should have enough bucks to buy the #1 AND have a bit extra to add to the stash for the upcoming sale.

Hope things happen soon, as I am go'in to need "the cure" one way or the other, and SOON!

Keep em Coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

 

I wasn't going to post but what the heck. I was out today with the black shadow in the wind and cold. i was seeing where Hornady 265 FPs shot compared to 300 HPXTPs.
I have both Marlin and Whinnys and like them both, 444 just happened to be a Whinny while 357,41 and 44 are Marlins. Lever hunters are a rare breed out here where the bolt is king. I look at this forum as the bullet and how you send it down range has a few options. The one plus I like in the marlins is the flat top for easy scope mount. I do have a Leupold M8 4x mounted with Warne QD rings and love the power. BTW both 265s and the 300s shot the same at 100 yards.

Interesting, I have never been able to get 265 gr and 300 gr bullets to hit the same POI at even 50 yards let alone 100! What kind of loads were you using?

I was a little sceptic that it would happen. I read on another post that the shooter had the same results.I had a strong cross wind and with the 4x scope I was just hoping to hit the 8" paper plate. Rifle was set 2" high at 100 yards on a calm summer day.
The loads were
Rem brass-Hornady 265FP- 56grs of H335
Rem brass- Hornady HPXTP- 52grs H335

 

LONGSHOTZ,

I just remembered something else you may want to take into account.. THE MARLIN IS MUCH EASIER TO CLEAN.. With the marlin action you can simply remove the bolt by cracking open the lever and removing its pivot screw, move the lever forward and pull down to set it aside, and then pull the bolt out the rear of the receiver with your fingers.. This allows you to take a range rod and clean from breach to muzzle, which is better for the crown of the muzzle.. Winchesters do not allow this so easily as the make up of it's action is more complex.. All the extra parts to the winchester has always left the 94 with a (to me) Rachety feel when working the action, akin to grinding salt with a fine watch..

 

Crusty it is very good place you find your self in. A Marlin or a #1? You can not loose. Try to trade the Red Label and get them all.

 

Morn'n rr11,

Ya, I've tried the trade thing, but they are not moving much and already have 2 Redlables on the used rack.

They are wanting to sell stuff at the pawn shop and not get more stuff on the rack.

I suppose it is hard to eat old tools, record players, etc. etc., take a lot of salt and coffee to get em down and then there not a lot of food value.

Prices are depressed and both of the RL are priced at $825 which is way below where they should be.

However, If I can buy at the same depressed prices, - #1 with Pentax scope out the door for $600 or less and Marlin 45/70 and one or two others for under $400, I can afford to take less for the RUGER.

Just need to get someone to come up with some bucks.


Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

 

Wow I feel your pain. The last #1 I saw in a pawn shop was $900. I have given up on the only 45-70 Marlin in pawn shops in my area. I can buy a new GG for the same price. I wish you luck. That said My #1 45-70 has gone on all my bear hunts, still chase deer with 30-30. Good Luck Rick