Try cleaning your bore really good with a good solvent, then check the results, I think you'll be surprised.

 

Try cleaning your bore really good with a good solvent, then check the results, I think you'll be surprised.

We did several times with no apparent change.Thanks

 

That was my guess. My .44 ain't a tack driver but is OK for hunting. If it gets fowled too much, which it ain't much it sprays them about 6" at 100 yds. A good soaking with wipeout dose make a huge difference. My 336 XLR gives good accuracy box after box. Don't know why but the 44 is not what I was hoping for. Maybe look for Tuning your Marlin in this sight.

 

The usual suspects are bore, bullet size and barrel band.

If the bore is verified clean (no color when using copper solvents like Breakfree foaming bore cleaner), has no lead (which is easily removed with a few strands of copper Chore Boy cleaning pads wrapped around a bore brush), then the next step is bullet size.

Copper jackets are not as susceptible to this as cast, but Marlins like .431/.432 best with lead.

If this is not the problem, let me ask you if you had the fore stock or barrel band off. If you did, then perhaps there's pressure on the barrel band that's different from when you had the good results from your loads.

Truth be told, you'd be hard pressed to wear out a .44 mag barrel.

 

You don't mention if the load you are/were using is with a cast or jacketed slug. If it's with a cast bullet the first thing I would do would be to check diameter, IF you bought a new box of bullets and this happened. Most Marlins like a big slug, typically .431 to .432" as a previous poster stated. Microgroove barrels are bored a bit large, no other way to say it. If you're using jacketed slugs and this change occurred I'd look really close at the crown. It's amazing how small a ding it takes to make a major change in grouping ability. I'm assuming you are cleaning your 94 carbine from the breech end. Cleaning from the muzzle without some kind of bore guide is very likely to "wash" the muzzle end from rod wear, in effect ruining the crown as well.
Lastly, are you shooting your groups from a bench, field position, leaning over a truck hood? Bench shooting with lever guns is sometimes an exercise in finding the proper position for the fore arm bag. Try using the bag way back, like just in front of the lever, if no help try it out the other direction. Forearm bedding can be a fickle thing when shooting from the bench. Field position would be less pickey, but if you're using a tight sling, again possible variables emerge. Also, shooting and loading from the magazine or single loading? Mag spring tension can make problems for groups as well.
Obviously a variable(s) have changed, that's the fun of shooting sometimes, tracking down the variable.

 

Coors Light.....quantity, not quality. And, I don't think that helps reading this stuff.....I laugh, I cry, I beat my head on bench......

You, know, this is just an internet forum to some. But to most of us its a group of friends who try helping one another. Those are the members that last. I'm going to suggest that if all you have to offer is negative comments & random insults then you dont have much to offer at all & this might not be the forum for you. The internet is full of places where disrespect is the norm, but this isn't one.

 

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/1894centerfire/1894ss.asp

My boy got this several years ago and loved it... The first year or so it shot fantastic,first with the factory iron sights then with a 4X scope. THEN It all changed.We reload and had a great load,I don't know off hand what it is/was. The groups started to get bigger and bigger We thought the scop went bad,. Changed the scope, crap. We tried three other GOOD scopes, re did the mounts several times. Nothing! tried many different loads different bullets / powder every thing. We even put the same iron sights back on. We got a very good set of peep sights and put on it same ,same,same. We got factory shells same, at 100 yards the group is way over a foot. Even with the first iron sights we where getting groups well with in 3" when it was new. Where at wits end, it may end up on the used gun rack in a sporting goods store. What do you think could have happened, it was never abused or damaged in any way???

I'd look hard at the muzzle, it doesn't take much crown damage to start throwing bullets all over the place.

 

We have always shot only copper jacketed bullets in the gun. We have always used a bore guide when cleaning it. When we tests it we are using a lead sled on a solid bench at a target that is 100 yards exactly.
We're grabbing at straws at this point and trying to think out side the box. Thanks for all the thoughts so far but we have tried most of them several times with the same results. :'(

 

Were the barrel bands or dovetail messed with lately? I have a 336SS I recently released some tension on and it shrunk the group preciptiously.

 

??? HUMM I'm not sure...
Thats a different direction We'll have to explore.

 

Sounds like your checking things off the list which is good, since you reload did you change powder types in the middle of loading and forgot about it ? I know its a long shot, but some how check the barrel, I years ago accidentley put a slight bend in a rifle barrel by the way I carried it on a tractor with me. Hydraulic lifts and steel don't mix, so my point is "don't rule anything out" no matter how far fetched it sounds.

 

Roger!!!
We did use many different powders including the one we started with Factory brand bullets went wild too.

 

This many not even come close....I had pretty much the same problem with a 336SC .35 Remington. It was very accurate with factory loads. For no apparent reason accuracy went all to hell. Tightened screws, cleaned bore thoroughly, etc all to no avail. On dissembling it for the umpteenth time, I discovered I had a broken firing pin! The break was at an angle where cursory inspection would not show. Replaced the pin and problem solved. In general Marlins do not take well to dry firing. My brother was very fond of this. But not anymore! ???

 

First of all I am not talking about fine tuning a gun to shoot 1 MOA or less even though my 1895 and my 1894 CB will. my 1895 shot one hole out of the box and my 1894, well, not so much. I had to work it over quite a bit. Also I say allthis stuff that may be elementary not because i thnk you do not know but because I am always surprised how even experienced shootes make the same mistakes but get away with it because they have full floated bolt actions. The two piece stock of the lever gun is a completely different animal.

First stop chasing the problem with handloads unless you weigh every charge, measure every bullet. Factory loads may not be nit picky accurate but they are consistant. Not to knock your reloading skills but you do not want to chase a problem arround in circles to find it was the ammunition. Buddy of mine once had a problem with a scale and blamed the new revolver.

Anything that is supposed to be tight should be. Athough rare, stupid stuff happens like lose barrels, bolts that dont close or properly headspace, etc. hapen from time to tim

If you have acces to a cradle use it carefully, do not apply pressure to the rifle

My experience is that only very heavily leaded or copper fouled barrels show large changes in accuracy. When I say heavily leaded I mean you can see it. I had a 22 ruger standard pistol that leaded so bad it had a lump indside the barrell that deformed the bullet as it when buy. That gun clean would shoot about 2" at 50 yards from a ransom rest. with the leaded barrel I could shoot 3-4" off hand at 50 yards. I have a 30-06 M-1 that will shoot 1-1/4" groups all day with iron sites at 100 yards and a heavily fouled barrel. I mean it looks green or chalky white under white light. That barrel is also very heavily pitted and dark and the rifling is visible but not well defined. GO figure. But MAKING SURE ITS SPOTLESSLY CLEAN IS ALWAYS THE FIRST STEP. You have to eliminate all the variables you can to get to the root of the problem.

These realatively large slower moving projectiles are not that affected by dirty barrels.

By now you have made sure all the sites, mounts, etc. are tight and do not move right?

Check the crown. One of the worst culptrits especially if the gun used to shoot good. Heavily damaged can really throw them around. EASy to fix you can buy a tool from midway or just do it yourself twith a stove bolt and some compound.

Check the forearm, AND the magazine tube, if it rattles moves or takes a lot of force to put on it can contirbute. Search for front end modifications on marauders site good news is they are cheap and easy to fix.. But this is usually only good for like an inch at 100 yards unless it is really really bad.

Check your shooting style. You can not sling up by simply wrapping the loop arround your arm the way you can with a full float barrel. You have to use a military competition sling that puts the pressure all on your offside forearm. The barrel can not touch anything period, well at least unless you know where a node is. the fore arm has to be held to support the rifle only, you can not bear down on it or force it into your shoulder like you might with a full floated bolt action. even putting the foreram on the edge of something hard like a fence rail can throw the shot off in extreme cases. Shooting style can be responsible for 2-3 MOA.

there are other things like bedding the reciver that will help but not to the degree you need. Well at least if it not just sloppy lose. again anything that should be tight must be tight.

 

We have always shot only copper jacketed bullets in the gun. We have always used a bore guide when cleaning it. When we tests it we are using a lead sled on a solid bench at a target that is 100 yards exactly.

Allow me to touch on a couple of things other than the great advise already given.
1. You say that you are using a bore guide. Are you, in fact, cleaning from the breech end, or from the muzzle?
2. Are you using a steel, aluminum, fiberglass, or another rod such as a "Dewey" cleaning rod?
3. Lead Sled. IMNSHO, not the best platform for shooting groups.
Instead of the Lead Sled, try some actual sandbags or a "Bulls Bag", or several shot bags. (Smaller sized shot is better for 'cradling' the forend.) Over the last 30 years or so, I've found that the "Bulls Bag" gives me the best support and allows me to concentrate on the sights more and less on maintaining a solid rest.
With that said, and I don't mean any disrespect, you are resting the forend on the Lead Sled, and not the magazine tube or barrel, right?? I watched in horror as a so-called Sharpshooter with my local sheriff's department got paper plate sized groups (at 100 yards) because he was resting the barrel of his bolt action 'sniper' rifle on the sandbags, instead of the forend.

 

You have to be very carefull with a lever gun. Even resting the forearm on something hard can affect groups the same way reting it on the barrel will.

The forearm not only touches the barrel but is attached to it. Dependant upon conditionof the attachment ofthe forearm and the type of rest it can make very big differences.

 

Great thread going here.. I am not the greatest bench rest shooter, but today at the range with my 1894 I put into practice some of the advice on this thread and had a good day, tighten my groups up quite a bit and was more consistent as well... Thanks for the great info, living a bit isolated I don't know where I would have picked up some of this if not for this forum.

 

Great thread going here.. I am not the greatest bench rest shooter, but today at the range with my 1894 I put into practice some of the advice on this thread and had a good day, tighten my groups up quite a bit and was more consistent as well... Thanks for the great info, living a bit isolated I don't know where I would have picked up some of this if not for this forum.

It is sometimes hard in the heat of the moment in a deer stand or at the edge of the woods where you need a rest to remeber to get something soft between the forearm and the rest. Or remeber to lay it on your hand. I have a Full blown heavy duty miltitary style competition rifle sling on my 1895. I refuse to sling the 1894. Anyway If used properly you can set the sling so that when you extend you offside arm it tightens from you bicept to the hand on that offside arm. If you the just cradle the forearm in the ofside hand you have a preety good rest that doesn't bear on the barrell. something like this

http://prostores3.megawebservers.co...-Competition-Gear-cln-Turner-National-Match-Service-Rifle-Slings/Categories.bok

they are expensive but they are worth it from a competition standpoint. I just move mine from the 1895 to the M-1 and the rem 700 and AR-15 as I need to. I take one sling and at least three riles on every hunting trip.

 

I deleted the off topic posts from this thread, such as the one Leverdude has quoted...Alkpon musta hit his head on that bench one too may times.

Please continue with your regularly scheduled program

 

I think Roundup may be onto something with the firing pin. Are the primer hits on the fired cartridges consistent? If so I would try to eliminate forearm pressure from the equation maybe by removing it and shooting the gun without it. Kinda like all those western movie Winchester 92's impersonating Henry 66's. Lead fouled bores and dinged up muzzle crowns are obvious to the naked eye. I'm thinking this problem is a little better hidden. Intrigued Mike

 

You have to be very carefull with a lever gun. Even resting the forearm on something hard can affect groups the same way reting it on the barrel will.

The forearm not only touches the barrel but is attached to it. Dependant upon conditionof the attachment ofthe forearm and the type of rest it can make very big differences.

+1. My 336 35 Rem was my first lever action rifle. I was originally benchresting it the same as I have done with all my std rifles. Wasn't getting the groups I thought I should (4-6" or bit more). On a whim, I rested the forearm gently in my off hand, laying my hand flat on the sandbag. Wah LaH! Groups shrunk by half. never used a sled, so not sure what it might do to Lvr groups...

 

This is the way I sight-in my levers, hand between the rest and the forearm. Have always done it that way. I've also found that loose screws on the forearm cap can affect POI and group size as well. And there's the ever-popular loose base/rings/scope guts as well. Have had problems with all of those over the years. I've got a laser boresighter now that picks up that stuff.

Stan S.

 

I joined this forum because of this thread!

I joined this forum because of this thread! What a helpful crew you guys have! I have always loved the old Marlin 3030 I had when I was young.
Now its time to get back in the lever guns. Thanks for being so helpful guys.

 

YES, remove and inspect the front FP. I bet it's broken at the back end. BTDT
Are ALL the screws tight on the rifle?
LG

 

Sounds like bullit is too small to me....you sure you're using the exact same size bullet as before when it shot great? Marlins 44 usually wants 430-432 bullets. Not 429.

 

Besides all the good suggestions already another thing to carefully check on stored long guns is the wood to barrel fit, changing humidity, to dry or to damp, can really change the wood and barrel bands fits.