140s should be good, unless you buy a lot of them you may not get the best deals on them.

158gn Win HPs bulk packs, seem to be the cheapest and really shoot well in my CB. 11.5 gns of 2400

The 2400 powder is one of the easiest powders I've worked with for the .357

 

Do you already have a powder in mind, or are you looking for proven loads, regardless of powder type?

I like 158-grain bullets, I shoot my long-hoarded Remingtons, both soft-points and HP's. My powder of choice is Lil Gun, and I get good accuracy with Federal primers and Starline brass.

It's almost impossible to build a bad 357 load for a Marlin, they shoot most bullet weights well, especially the stuff 140 grains and up.

 

My experience with 2 1894Cs is that they preferred heavy bullets to light. 125s were the worst performers in both rifles. 158s and 180s shot best in both. My favorite loads:

158 grain Hornady FP-XTP over 18.0 grains of Lil' Gun, Starline brass and a magnum primer.

180 grain cast RNFP (SAECO #353) over 10.5 grains of 2400 in Remington cases with a standard primer.

 

My experience with 2 1894Cs is that they preferred heavy bullets to light. 125s were the worst performers in both rifles. 158s and 180s shot best in both. My favorite loads:

158 grain Hornady FP-XTP over 18.0 grains of Lil' Gun, Starline brass and a magnum primer.

180 grain cast RNFP (SAECO #353) over 10.5 grains of 2400 in Remington cases with a standard primer.

I'm curious... did you ever chronograph those loads? I've been looking for a flat base/non-GC bullet to start loading for my 1894c and your post prompted me to look up the SAECO mould. It looks like a very nice design that might work well in the 357 and 35 Rem.

Stirling

 

Sure have...

158 grain Hornady FP-XTP over 18.0 grains of Lil' Gun = 1,867 fps in an 1894C (1,208 fps in a 4 inch 686)

SAECO #353 over 10.5 grains of 2400 = 1,349 fps from an 1894C

ETA, The SAECO #353 loads to 1.610 inches OAL for me. My rifle needed the carrier modified to feed it. Others have reported that their rifle feeds them just fine with no modification required. Details on the mod here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=7750

 

Thanks for the advice about bullet weights. I'll load 158 gr and see what happens. I hear Lil Gun mentioned a lot. How does 296 or H110 perform? I have a lot of this powder. Do you interchange rounds for your rifle with pistols? Is there concern about same round being used in either gun?
What is typical accuracy you get with the Marlin rifle, say at 50 and 100 yds? open sights or scoped.

 

The 357 was designed around the 158-grain bullet, and not much has changed in the 74 years since. It's still the best choice for most applications.

Lil Gun gets mentioned a lot because it offers very similar performance to H-110 (same as WW296) without the attendant foibles. H-110 is not suitable for reduced loads, nothing below 92% load density is suggested nor recommended. It's difficult to light, especially in cold weather, and it can be messy to load with, depending on your equipment. Lil Gun burns clean, isn't temperature sensitive, and often rivals the velocities attainable with H110 with less powder and lower pressures. How does it do that? I have no idea.....but I buy and shoot a lot of it, mostly in my 357's.

Rifle and pistol loads are generally interchangeable, but slower powders in the pistol can make for some serious pyrotechnics. Muzzle flashes are rare in the rifle length barrels, but can be quite spectacular from a handgun. My avatar is proof of that! (That a full-charge H-110 load, BTW)

Typical accuracy? The best guns will consistently put five shots into about a half-inch at 50 yards on good days, an inch on an average day. That's assuming a scope and good ammo, carefully crafted. Some guns never do better than two inches at 50 yards, but their owners bring home venison every year, and they couldn't possibly care less. Minute-of-Deer is all that matters.

This is about average for mine..........5 @ 50

Some days it will do this, once it's fouled-in.........

Most of these rifles will easily outshoot the guy holding them. I know mine will. After 30 years of learning how to shoot, I'm still the limiting factor.

 

From what I hear Lil Gun is good stuff. However, I've got a bunch of 2400 stashed around here so that is what I use. For bullets, I've done very good with the Winchester 145gr Silvertip JHP in front of a stiff dose of 2400.

My experience is that you can make the most out of that longer barrel with the slower burning powders.

 

For an accurate lower velocity, lower $ .357 load, I have found that 6.0/Titegroup behind a 125 gr. XTP shoots very well. Velocity runs 1,450 f.p.s. I have had some 5 shot groups in the 1" range @ 50 yards with it.

For a cheaper target load, the 148 gr. HBWC over 4.0/Bullseye does 1,000 f.p.s. and is another fun load to shoot. ;D

w30wcf

 

6 grains of WSF behind a 158 gr cast flat point keeps all the holes touching at 50 yards for my 1894C. For stronger, but still moderate loads, 11 grains of 2400 (my favorite) behind a 158 gr cast plain-base SWC bullet is also very accurate in my gun. Accuracy with these seems to depend on very light crimp.No leading with either when sized at .359.

 

I’m using 13.4 to 14.9 grains of Accurate Arms #9 with the Hornady 158 grain XTP HP. That’s right out of the Lyman reloading manual. The published muzzle velocities are 1,639 fps and 1,774 fps. The ammo is much more accurate than any factory ammo I’ve shot with my 1894C and absolutely effective with whitetail deer out to at least 100 yards with 14.9 grains. The Lyman data is the published rifle data which is slightly different than the published handgun data.

I don’t have enough range time with the ammo yet to establish just how accurate it is or to determine what the most accurate powder charge is. It seems to shoot about 2 ½ to 3 ½ inches at 100 yards and all the powder charges tried so far seem to be about equally accurate.

The AA website lists the starting charge as 13.5 grains with a muzzle velocity of 1,293 fps and the max charge as 15 grains with a mv of 1,470 fps. The AA website only lists the data under handgun.

One note: Everything I’ve shot with my 1894C is very accurate at 50 yards except for the Win Clean ammo which is just not accurate under any circumstances. Everything I’ve shot with it is terrible at 100 yards except for my hand load Hornady 158 grain HP XTP’s so far.

 

I'm just starting to use handloads in my 1894c.
Suppied with Red Dot by my gunshop and have increased loads to 5.5grn with a 158grn lead lubricated bullet.
As this is a handgun load with no signs of pressure can I increase to 6 grn .
Most shooting is at paper 100m/109 yards.
Seems to equal Magnatec jacketed loads in trajectory.
I also find loading 5 rounds at a time helps groups.
Graham

 

That is a pretty stiff load of Red Dot. If you want more velocity, pick a slower powder.

 

I use Unique for both my 38 Special loads and my .357 Magnum loads.

 

I'm throwin in another vote for LilGun and a 158gr bullet. I used to use H-110 for all magnum loads for 357 and 44, LilGun has replaced it for 357's and am working with it in 44 mag and heavy 45 Colts. I have 7 rifles that I shoot 357's in and all like the 158 with LilGun and the 180's are also shooting good, just haven't worked with them as much. At the speeds from a rifle, I prefer soft points over hollow points. Cast Performance has a good 160 gr WFNGC that seems to shoot well also. Biggest problem with any 357 maggie is keeping loaded ammo around, stuff disappears quicker than David Copperfield. DP

 

With LilGun, are you guys using Magnum Primers or just regular primers?

Thanks
Dave

 

Lil Gun doesn't need magnum primers, unless you're shooting in temps below about 20 degrees F. I've tried them, but the chronograph says there's not much difference in velocity, at least not at the levels I load it at. If I was running max loads it might be different, but I don't see the need to run it any hotter than I do. Two grains below max gives me 1750 fps (more in some other folks' 1894's) and all the ballistic joy one can use, with good brass life.

The problem with running loads at maximum is that if anything weird gets added to the mix, the safety factor is compromised. Work-hardened brass makes pressures rise, as the shot-start pressure rises. That makes any progressive-burning powder build pressure even faster, and then several buckets of snakes slither onto the scene. I don't like snakes much, so I keep things a little more moderate, and widen the safety net. 8)

 

I use Dardas 158 gr cast RNFP on top of 13.5 gr AA#9 with standard small pistol primers. They're sized at .358 and don't lead at all.
Dardas is supposed to be coming out with a 180 gr .358, can't wait to try those out.
GH1

 

Thanks Papajohn for the info. I live down in Florida, so I don't need to worry about the 20 degree temps. I'm trying to come up with a load that will throw my Lee TL 158 grn SWC at 1500 fps or so. My 1894 feeds the SWC's pretty well.
Dave

 

Either 2400 or Unique will do that for you.

 

PJ, you make a very good point about not going for maximum velocity and getting better accuracy. I've loaded for max velocity just to see what my rifles will do, but for ammo I'm going to use, I back off the powder charge and go for the accuracy. All the velocity in the world don't matter if you can't hit the target.

 

The max load for LilGun is already low by 357 standards, 25,800 CUP at it's max charge of 18.0gr. while H-110/Win. 296 are listed at 40,700 CUP with the max charge of 16.7gr. H 4227 has a max charge of 16.0gr and is listed at 42,600 CUP. Since I live in Montana, and it does seem to get below 20*F from time to time, I run mag. primers all the time. Haven't noticed any difference in accuracy from the LR standard primers when I tried them. What ever one does, they need to be careful and increase charges slowly, each firearm is a law unto it's self and a blanket statement should not be used. These rifles are used more than 22's around my house, they are that much fun, yet far more effective than any rimfire on pests. DP

 

What ever one does, they need to be careful and increase charges slowly, each firearm is a law unto it's self and a blanket statement should not be used.

Exactly! My 1894C Cowboy Special showed pressure signs WELL below the published max. Just too nice of a rifle for me to risk blowing it up.

Getting less bolder in my old age

 

My 357 also shows signs of excessive pressure at max on just about all slower powders. I had slight lever stiffness and backed off quick. One somewhat strange pairing that I came up with was a Ranch Dog 190LFNGC meant for the 35 Rem and 14 grains of Lil' Gun in a 38 sp case feeds great and shoots one hole 5 shot groups at 50 and right at 2 inches and sometimes less at 100. I haven't chronographed this load and as always you are on your own with this one. I use Fed std primers in mine. The 357 case and bullet combo was too long to feed therefore the 38 cases. Which also helps since My rifle does not like any normal 38 sp loads.

 

RANCH DOG has a new mould..175 grain?...designed for the 357 MARLIN and using magnum brass IIRC. I'm still debating buying one since I have a 180 grain NOE mould from a castboolits group buy...and a 200 grain semi wadcutter from the same folks. Both moulds are four plain base and one gas check cavity since I shoot mostly pistol, but wanted ammo inter-changeability and the gas check for "rifle specific loads." Gas checks are a PITA and they ain't exactly giving them away either!

At least in my 44s, a RANCH DOG boolit that is tumble lubed with ALOX and gas checked will remove lead from the barrel.