Whats the bullet weight you've been using? Also may have better luck with Blackhorn 209 and regular 209 primers.

 

200
240
250
275
295

Just bought a jug of Blackhorn.

 

I'll try to be thorough and brief. I've owned a TC Omega 50 cal muzzleloader for about 12 years. I've had reasonably good luck on whitetail deer, but I've also had a few misses.

The gun has worn a few different scopes through the years, and when I re-sight each time, the gun has never produced what I would consider a good group. It was always good enough to kill a deer, but not what I thought the gun was capable of doing. The best I can get the gun to shoot is about 4"-5" groups at 100 yards, and I repeat, 4 to 5 inch groups are the best I can get.

A few years ago, I mentioned the poor grouping to a gun shop owner, & he started telling me what TC would recommend. First thing he asked was if I shot pelletized powder, which I have since the gun was new. He said TC recommends loose powder, so I started using loose powder. I saw some minor improvement, but not much. He also said TC would recommend their bullets, and would advise cleaning between every shot. I implemented those two, with little change.

So, I've been through multiple bullet types

• Hornady sabots w/pistol bullets
• multiple types of TC sabots / bullets
• powerbelts

Different powders

• Pyrodex pellets
• Pyrodex loose powder
• Goex FFg

Powder loads between 90 grains and 150 grains

Four different scopes

• Bushnell Banner
• Nikon Omega
• Nikon Buckmaster
• Bushnell Trophy

Two different scope bases (both Leupold)
A few different sets of dual dovetail rings Leupold & Burris

I think it's likely I have a bad barrel, but thought I'd check to see if there's something I may have overlooked

I have a TC Encore 50 caliber with the same symptoms. Recently purchased a 45 caliber barrel and it does the same thing. I've had the 50 caliber for 16 years. And nothing I've tried has gotten any better results than yours. I shoot Shockeys gold and shockwave sabots, with 5 to 6 inch groups?@100 yards.

 

I have a Thompson Encore stainless in 50 cal and shoot Blackhorn and 250 gr Powerbelt bullets ( the black ones with red tip). i bought it from a friend and took it to the range after a crude job of boresighting and on the third shot I walked it to the bulleye at 100 yards and the fourth shot was also in the bull so I quit, I am shooting the standard 100 grs by volume but plan on cutting it back to 90 grs mark. The bulleye was a 2 inch spot and the scope was a Bushnell Trophy. This was done without cleaning and when I got home I ran two wet patches of Hoppes #9 down the barrel and two dry patches and the bore was sparkling. The nipple hardly had any residue on it, I love Blackhorn powder. The only thing I can think of that might make your gun shoot better is the powerbelt bullet but there is no guarantee as it seems like you have tried a lot of things to no avail.

 

A few years ago a friend from New Mexico bought a Accura V2 and drove out here to get some help wringing it out and finding a load for it. I gave him the load I use. A 300 grain Barnes Original #457010 Semi Spitzer, in an Orange MMP Sabot, 84 grains by weight Black Horn 209 powder and Winchester 209 primer. The 84 grains of BH209 = 120 grain black powder equivalent.
The salesman who sold him his muzzleloader convinced him that Power Belt bullets and powder pellets were the only way to go and that is what he showed up with. After two days of shooting all the different combinations that he had he gave up. The sun was going down the wind was blowing 20 knots or so in over my right rear shoulder when I pulled out my Savage ML-2 and shot these two rounds with no hold for wind. You can see two of his shots covered with black dots

The shots are on the far left edge of the target. This was @ 190 yards by the way. He had to leave for home that night so I gave him a box of bullets, bag of sabots, tray of primers and a bottle of powder.
Here is a pic of the elk he killed with one shot.

 

I've tried powerbelts, not the black ones, and not with Blackhorn powder. I will give that a try. Noticed OP mentioned powerbelts I wonder if they were the black ones with the red tips? IIRC the ones I tried either had green or yellow tips.

 

He had a variety of different color power belts. None of them shoot like the Barnes semi-spitzer with the MMP orange sabot.

 

I have a TC Omega that’s 10-15 years old. I use 100grs. of loose 777, T/C power glide sabots( 300 gr I think) with a Leupold 2-7x shotgun scope, regular Winchester or Federal 209 shotgun primers and can shoot around 2” or less at 100 yards. Mind is a Z2 or Z5 which I believe which was a special edition sold from Jerry’s Sport Center, PA ,with a laminated stock .

 

:dito:

 

I am down to only one muzzleloader rifle now (Traditions) but I have had good luck with cast Lyman .44 Devastator hollow point bullets with the green Knight plastic sabots in every 50 cal muzzleloader I have owned. I also use 2 Pyrodex pellets vs 3 which are good enough for deer within 100 yards. I usually cast the bullets from pure lead and don't use a gas check.

 

I shot mine this weekend to check zero.

T/C Encore - Leupold 4x33 scope
Blackhorn 209 - 75grs by weight - almost 110grs by volume
CCI 209M primer - you want the 209M or Fed 209A
Harvester Crush Rib Black sabot
Barnes Original 300gr SP - .458" bullet

4 shots with 3-4 mins between shots - 120yds, group was 1.08"


Here is a link to the Barnes @ midway: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...ullets-45-70-government-458-diameter-300-grain-semi-spitzer-flat-base-box-of-50


If you're not infatuated with having a pointed bullet I've used the 300gr Speer .458, the 300gr Hornady .458 and the 350gr Hornady FP in .458 with equal groups and I've killed deer with all of them, none disappointed.

 

Yeah Crush Rib sabots are the way to go. So easy to seat them. My favorite bullets are the Harvester PT Golds. Heavier the better.

 

Those are great bullets. I wish they made a 350gr Scorpion PT Gold. I've killed a pile of deer with the 300's.

 

I have had my Omega for 14 years. Have killed countless number of deer, at least 50. I contacted TC about the gun because for elk in Colorado you have to shoot lead conicals. I was using the TC Maxi-balls, 370 grain. I was shooting around a 2" group at 100 yards. When I went back to just shooting whitetails I went to the Maxi-Hunter, 350 grain. I had to lower the powder charge from 100 grain of T7 to 90 grain of T7 powder. After I dumped the Bushnell Banner scope and put a Leupold on it my first shot kill was 95 - 100 %. Banner scopes have a lot of problems with Paralax.

When I talked to the Tech at TC he told me to never use petroleum solvents to clean the gun. To switch over I had to do the following. I pulled the barrell and the breach plug. Put the breach into hot, hot soapy water. Using a cleaning jag with patch I scrubbed the bore. Once I finished I dried the bore completely and swabbed it heavily with bore butter, preferably while still hot. The bore butter seasons the bore like oil seasons a cast iron skillet. It worked well. Since I have done this I can shoot the 350 grain Maxi-Hunters one after another without cleaning. The bullets are lubed with Bore Butter so each time you shove one down the bore it cleans it. When it is time to clean the barrel thoroughly use a water based solvent. I think TC makes a solvent just for use with its bore butter. I really like this set up and all of my shots are inside 100 yards.

If you want to go out past 100 yards I use the TC shockwave bullet. Hornady makes the bullet/sabot combination. A buddy of mine shoots deer out to 200 yards with this. Accuracy is very good.

This works for me. Might not work for you. Maybe you did get a bad barrel. Since who ever bought out TC their quality may of slipped. I don't know. I know the older ones, like Marlin, are good to go. Have you tried slugging your barrel to make sure your bore is to spec? Good luck!
V

 

Hot soapy water works for BP, Pyrodex and T7 but if someone shoots BH209 standard Hoppe's #9, Butches Bore Shine, etc are needed to clean it up.


FAQs « Blackhorn 209

 

Also what primers have you been using? Regular shotgun primers can push the powder and bullet forward before ignition resulting in bad groups. I strongly suggest the Blackhorn 209. Great powder!

 

I'm using Winchester 209 primers & just bought a jug of Blackhorn 209.

 

In my TC Omega I use Blackhorn 209 and saboted 240 grn XTP'S. If I wanted 100 yard accuracy I would go to a more aerodynamic bullet.

 

I've fired over 100 saboted 240 grn XTP's trying to get the gun to shoot. I've been shooting 200 grn TC Shockwaves most recently, because that's what it shoots best, even though "best" is still poor.

 

Remus,

I agree with some of the above. The 50 is a big bore that may need a heavier longer bullet. I like the suggestion to try a maxi-ball. In addition, also try the slowest burn powder you can find. Fg BP is a good option in the 50 and 54 cal. Have you tried a .458 cal 300-350 gr 45 cal bullet in a thin sabot? At BP velocity, the .458" copper plated bullets may be a good option to try.

 

Ditto on the bore butter and avoiding petroleum products.

 

You'll want Fed 209A or CCI 209M primers. The link I posted to FAQs on Blackhorn 209 those are the two the recommend.


Sometimes Win primers work and sometimes they don't. I've seen them not light off BH.


As for the 240 XTP, a friend of mine shoots the same charge or BH209 with the CCI 209M that I do but he uses the 240 XTP where I don't. His groups are as good as mine averaging between 1"-1.5" @ 100yds.

 

I bought an Omega the first year they came out and fought for weeks trying to get it to group even on a paper plate at 100 yards! What I found is that they do NOT like light bullets and near max charges. Eventually I found that around 90 grains of 777 and a 405gr powerbelt worked great...even took a couple elk with 'em! Of course, once I moved from CO back to OH, I am now hunting deer and 405gr anything is hard to find around here. Eventually I settled on the Hornady FPB's in 350gr bullets... https://www.hornady.com/muzzleloading/fpb-muzzleloading#!/ They group amazingly well with 85-90gr (measured, not weighed) of Blackhorn 209. I tend to stick to around 85gr because once you get to 90 or higher the groups open up again.

A few other key points...make sure the bullet is seated VERY firmly and use a standard 209 primer (read: NOT a 209 primer for "black powder"). Blackhorn powder is hard to ignite and needs a regular 209. To help seat the bullet, buy the Hornady ram rod tip designed for this bullet. Lastly...if you have an early Omega, consider finding a newer style breach plug. The original ones are flat across the inside surface and the newer ones are cupped to help ignition, like the one shown at the 0:30 mark in this video...

 

Update: had my first opportunity to shoot the Omega with the Blackhorn 209 powder under the TC Shockwave 200 gr bullet with sabot. A three shot group ended up at about 1.5" and definitely less if you remove the bullet diameter from the calculation. This is after a good 12-15 years of trying to make this gun shoot well. I would have never suspected the powder would make this much difference, but it appears that it did.

 

Alright! Now time to get some dinner!

 

the Omega is a 1:28" twist barrel. It should shoot sabots just fine as it is fast enough.

Have you slugged your barrel? That is the very first thing I do before I even think about figuring up a load. You need to figure out what bore size you have then pick your sabot accordingly. All sabot thicknesses are NOT the same.

 

I have been a black powder finatic since 1983.
I always start out at 70 grains by volume of what ever powder you like. I like Pyrodex RS myself.
I have shot many, many projectiles. The best lead bullets are Harvesters and they're sabots are awesome too.
Always swab after shooting each round. Use spit if you have to. I have denatured alcohol soaked patches. Use one swab to clean one to dry.
Use loose powder only. It is way more consistent. You must match your grain weight bullet with the twist rate you have. If you're twist rate is slower than 1:32 do not use a sabot. Use a Harvester patched bullet of a heavier grain.
Trust me more powder is not better. I once broke the stock on a Hawkins using 120 grains of Pyrodex in 1984. Yes my shoulder felt it.
Clean your flash hole after every round of shooting ei, Nipple or Breech plug. You will have a better flash pattern. I just swap out my nipple and clean them all in the ultrasonic cleaner at the end of the year.

 

I use black horn powder with great results , but I always weigh powder on a scale ,wouldn't think of hunting with it without weighed charges .