There`s just nothing like the original..The fact the JM is no longer produced will make its value rise far more than a copy

 

its not really value its quality that makes them different, the fit and Finnish are what really separates the older guns from the newer guns.the older guns are works of art fine bluing, great wood, fit and finish they have it all thats why the older guns are in such hi demand

 

Interesting reading on this very subject!

The Marlin Firearms Company, Ilion, New York An 1895 Guide Gun... in a New York state of mind ©RGI Media, Inc - Published with permission ​

This is the fourth Marlin 1895 Guide Gun we've reviewed in the past six years. The first was assembled in the Marlin North Haven, CT plant, the second and third were assembled from Marlin inventory at the Remington Ilion, New York Plant. All were barrel stamped, "The Marlin Firearms Company North Haven, Connecticut". The fourth gun, pictured, was manufactured at the Remington facilities, with all Remington parts, in Ilion, NY and barrel stamped to reflect that change. Of the four rifles noted, the most recent is the nicest production Marlin seen in a very long time; hardware and wood, close fitting parts, no gritty action or trigger, no assembly nicks or dings. The nicely figured American black walnut stock has a very natural satin finish and exceptionally clean laser cut checkering. The blued steel pieces are also satin finished with the exception of the gloss receiver sides. The ancient Marlin "gold" trigger of my 1957 Marlin 336 is still absent, as it had been from Marlin for a very long time, but the little black and white Marlin Bullseye is right there ahead of the rear sling swivel stud and accuracy rivals many bolt action rifles. In short form - the current Model 1895 45/70 Guide Gun is the same gun that came out of the Marlin factory, just more precisely and skillfully produced.​ Pirates like Guide Guns too...​ The story might read, "It carried easily in me hands, this smooth curve of walnut and cold blued steel. Like the Great Dragon, its eyes glowed red and it belched smoke and fire, bringing an end to all that stood before it... " OK, perhaps a bit dramatic, but anyone who has spent time shooting one of these truncated cannons, with full tilt ammunition, knows exactly what I am talking about. The gun is pure fun.​ Marlin Model 1895G​ Origin Ilion, NY Manufacturer Remington Model Model 1895G Type Lever Action Caliber 45/70 Government Capacity 4+1 Barrel Length 18.5" Ballard Rifling 1:20" Nominal Weight 6.0 lbs 14 Oz Overall Length 37" Stock Walnut Hardware Blued Steel Length of Pull 13.25" Drop at comb 1.25" Drop at heel 2.00" Sights Metallic Scope Drilled and Tapped Trigger Pull 5 lbs. 8 oz. Safety Cross Bolt Safety MSRP $680 Rifles chambered for the 45/70 Government are neither low power nor short range. One of the commercial loads that cranked out 2,100+ fps with a 350 grain bullet during testing, generated 50 ft/lbs of recoil. That is more than a stiff 338 Winchester Magnum load, and more than a 300 grain load from an eight pound 375 H&H Magnum. A good recoil pad is greatly appreciated.The little Marlin has been used to down the largest dangerous game on earth and light loaded as a terrific rifle for hunting deer and elk.Representative of Model 1895 Guide Gun's 45/70 Government personality, a Speer 350 grain flat nose bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2,135 fps, and a maximum ordinate of 3", is point blank out to 200 yards. The trajectory remains flat, and the bullet retains good kinetic energy numbers, out beyond 250 yards.​ Speer Flat Nose 350 Grain Ammunition - 18.5" Barrel Length​ Range -yds 0 50 100 150 200 250 Velocity - ft./sec. 2135 1972 1816 1668 1531 1406 Energy - ft.-lbs. 3542 3020 2562 2161 1822 1537 Path - in. -1.5 1.9 3.0 1.5 -3.2 -11.6 Not just for handloaders...​ The 45/70 Government is a favorite of handloaders and folks who like to cast their own bullets. Still the Marlin Guide Gun owner who does not handload won't be deprived of exercising the Marlin's potential. There are currently 39 readily available factory loads for this cartridge. Seven were picked as a cross section, a mixture of original and modern rifle pressure levels.​ As noted previously, the 50 yard three shot groups were shot through the factory metallic sights, the 100 yard were shot with the aid of a scope. Both sets were shot from a steady rest from the bench. Velocity was recorded from the subject rifle. The application notations are as presented by the respective manufacturer.​ 45/70 Government - Factory Ammunition - 18.5" Barrel Left to Right Above​ Ammunition Weight Grains MV FPS ME Ft/Lbs Recoil Ft/Lbs 50 Yard Groups " 100 Yard Groups " Application Cost Per 20 Winchester Super X 300 1575​ 1653 26 0.8 1.1 Light, thin skinned game $32 Winchester Supreme 300 1583 1670 26 0.9 1.2 Large, heavy game $36 Buffalo Bore 350 2132 3533 48 1.1 0.9 Large, heavy game $56 HSM 350 2142 3567 48 1.0 0.8 Large, heavy game $53 Ultra Max 405 1057 1005 23 0.8 1.2 Cowboy Competition $35 Buffalo Bore 430 1863 3315 53 1.2 1.0 Large, heavy game $56 Garrett* 540 1482 2634 53 1.3 1.3 Large, Heavy game $70 *Not currently available Bullet, rather than velocity, has much to do with application. The only real difference between the 300 grain Super X and Supreme is the Supreme's Partition Gold bullet, enough to bump up the manufacturer's rating to "Large heavy game". However, recoil for both is mild, about the same as a typical 30/06 Springfield sporter weight rifle.The Buffalo Bore and HSM 350 grain loads are very similar. The Buffalo Bore uses a small rifle primer rather than large and the HSM utilizes a really tough Swift A Frame bullet that won't come apart on heavy game. The HMS, after handloads, is my favorite. Recoil is... stout.The 430 and 540 grain loads are for large bear. The claim to fame for both is bone breaking penetration... on both ends of the gun. The Garrett "Hammerhead" will out penetrate a 458 Winchester Magnum. Recoil is... invigorating.​ The completion of a transition...​ I believe, with the appearance of the Ilion, NY markings on barrels, Marlin has fully become a Remington product. No more Marlin facilities, no more Marlin inventory and what this all means to Marlin fans and customers is now fully known. For folks still grousing about Marlin's demise, I can offer the following perspective.​ John Mahlon Marlin announced himself to be a pistol maker in 1863. By 1864, at age 27, he was working out of a shop at 18 Williams street in News Haven, Connecticut3. In 1816, Eliphalet Remington II age 23, began his firearms business in the Mohawk Valley with the production of rifled barrels4. The 1828 location of the Remington Armory became Ilion, New York in 1854, the same location where Remington is currently manufacturing the Marlin product line. There is more than enough tradition to go around. Both companies changed structure and ownership numerous times. Both companies participated as suppliers of numerous product through two world wars. Both companies grew and expanded through acquisition of other companies.Remington acquired Marlin at the close of 2007. In March, 2010, Remington announced it was closing the Marlin facilities located in North Haven and began transitioning Marlin firearm assembly to its Ilion, New York facility. On April 1st of 2011, the last 5 of 265 original employees went home and Marlin became fully a Remington product.1 In the end, continuation of "Marlin" firearms was assured and Remington under the Freedom Group expanded to include one more quality brand of firearm. We sometimes forget that firearm manufacturers are businesses first and that they are subject to the same profit and loss circumstances as any other business. Marlin had grown from $60.3 million to $80.5 million in revenue between 2005 and 2007. Net income grew from $1.2 million to $4.0 million, an increase that came from economy of scale and by reducing sales, general management and administrative costs.Marlin's balance sheet, over the same time frame, showed a 20% increase in inventory and accounts receivable was out to 61 days, compared to an industry average of 48 days. Accounts payable nearly doubled, short term debt increased substantially and cash from operations dropped from $5.4 million to $1.0 million. Marlin was increasingly debt financed.2My opinion is that Marlin was a company that could not reasonably finance their own success and went to work optimizing a bottom line to attract a buyer. Enter Remington. As a proportion, not as a precise number, what was once 265 jobs in North Haven, Connecticut created by the use of old systems, equipment, processes, became 100 people as a product line addition to Remington's more modern and centralized manufacturing. The new product looks better, it is made better, it shoots better, and it has better customer service and support. Sometimes change is good. And what of the 165 jobs lost? It could have been 265 jobs lost and, perhaps, the Marlin product line will prosper under Remington and come to represent many more jobs. 1)Hartford Courant April 01, 2011 2)Financial Statements for Marlin Firearms Co (MFIA-OTC) 3)Marlin Firearms - Brophy 4)The History of Remington Firearms - Marcot ​

 

I recently discovered that my 1895 is a jm. Woot woot

 

I am a newbee to this forum and going to call mine a Marlington!

Other than the sites and a for end cut off center a bit, The rest looks pretty darn good. No dings/chips or screwy screws, nice checkering and fit otherwise. It just feels right.:biggrin:

This is my 3rd Marlin (first lever) and the finish is the best I have seen.

 

How much more valuable for equal condition guns?

As far as I'm concerned the Remington made Marlin and H&R rifles have no value. :hmpf:

 

I guess I am lucky. I bought my 1895SS years ago and it is marked JM.......... Mine was purchased before Remington even had it's eyes on Marlin.

 

Id understand that the JM stamped ones will never be made again there for worth more. There for worth more. I have a rem line and apart from some lose skrews it was a very quality pece of work and shots grate right out of the box. ive seen some awful rem lines but the one i have has nothing to be ashame of next to a JM marked one. If i run in to a JM marked one you bet ill be picking it up

 

karatoula

thank you for all the great reading it was very interesting thanks again

 

I wouldnt worry about it ! Would you rather have a JM stamped 1895 that was made prior to 1987 that used a micro-groove barrel ? Or a Remlin that has ballard rifling and a so so fit stock (that seems to be getting better lately). There may be a couple investment cast parts in the remlins , but its not a bad thing.....just diffrent. My main gripe was they seem to have a couple burrs here or there that may need to be dealt with. Now everyone knows when the initial change took place , there was alot of crap going on in the first year , stocks were fit as bad as it gets , crooked sights , loose screws that fell out...etc. But lately things have seemed to get alot better.....Im happy with my 1895GS , but yet i worked on it for several hours cleaning and deburring , but maybe a new JM stamped one was the same for some ? My older friend said "they always cleaned up their new marlins years ago ?I think if the remington assemblers got it right off the bat , remlins wouldnt have such a bad rap now. Yeah.....it bothers me too , so much so that I picked up another 1895GS that is JM stamped just to compare everything and then sell one. That may sound extreme , but I wanted the best 1895 I could afford be it a remlin , or a marlin genuine article. Thats just my 2 cents worth

 

awfulkanawful

wow what a name, welcome to the form, let us know how the comparison turns out

 

The comparison may take some time ! My shoulder is grey , purple , and turning green right now....lol.
That plus the fact Im waiting on dies , primers , boolits , etc..... I would highly suggest that NOBODY starts out with Garrets 500grainers to start....lol . Funny thing back in my day when I was hunting and reloading alot....people said the recoil from a 45-70 was moderate ? Like hell it is !!!!!! These loads kick worse than anything Ive shot including .375 H&H ! I could only muster 16 rounds from the bench.....just couldnt take anymore! I hope the 350gr Hornadys are a little less harsh on recoil with the loads Im gonna work up (1700-1800fps)......or this is gonna be a long comparison !

 

that sounds like you are on the right track if your shoulder holds out have fun

 

I unknowingly collected a few JM stamped lever rifles. But if I was buying a marlin rifle today I would buy a NIB 336w for $399. or a 336c $450. Remington made from a reliable dealer not online or gun show. I'm not a collector I use my rifles for target shooting and to hunt. But I'm not a fool if a good JM marlin comes my way and I could I'll buy it too.

T:biggrin: NY

 

I own 4 1895's , all in 45-70. I have 2 remlins as you call it and 2 Jm stamped guns. Other than the horrible stock on a remlin I bought 3 yrs ago they are all about the same. I say if you dont like the rem stamp on the barrel , just tap it down and grind and polish it down ! Its still going to shoot the same. It does suck though that there was alot of problems in the takeover. I didnt even really know about the remlin marlin debate until coming on here last night. The world changes , so either roll with the punches or do something about it constructive like getting people to write letters to the Co. or just buying used JM guns !! BTW..The very first marlin JM stamped I bought back in about 1990 had alot of very bad tool marks inside the reciever , as did a recent remlin , but BOTH shoot very accurate with a range of ammo.

 

AZ1895

thanks for the input i don't own a remlin all i know is what i have herd sounds like you would be a great person to talk to .welcome to the form and welcome from Oregon

 

Mister 270 thanks. Right now Im working on a remlin that was dropped off a Quad in New Mexico this fall during Elk season. It really scratched it up and the guy no longer wanted it so I bought it for $250. Cut it back to 20" and brazed on a new front sight after buffing the whole barrel. Now just waiting for a full tube from remlin and it will be a new toy for me. I will post pics when I figure out how on here. Ive been making my own varieties since 1984. Hey , does your name have anything to do with 270's ?

 

yes it does at one time i owned four now i own two i have been shooting and loading the great 270 win for 30 years and i love reading old jack oconnor articles and i own his books would you say i might deserve the name just a little

 

People dont even know who Jack Oconner and Elmer Keith are anymore. My first gun ever was a .270 Winchester M70 XTR. I bought it because of one man.....Jack Oconner! I had a house fire in 2000 and all my guns were burned up. All I own now is 45-70's.BTW....I think we hijacked this thread...lol

 

I know who they are! I've read an awful lot of their writings along with Skeeter Skelton, Jeff Cooper, Bill Jordan! Great authors all!

Back to the thread. I've seen some of the newer Marlins (yea, I know) I look them over whenever I see one in a gun shop, & the fit & finish seems to be getting better. I sincerely hope it gets back up to where it was when they sold. The Rem. 700s are pretty fine rifles & there is NO reason the Remington Marlins can't be too!
Frank

 

don't worry about it

 

i bought a remlin gbl about 6 months ago now. it had a little burr on the locking block nothing to bad. and i found a 1895 pre remlin receiver that wasn't shot yet it also had a small burr on the locking block. anybody know of any good auto-cad systems for free???

 

the new mdl 700s are not what they used to be ether they feel different

 

I have BOTH Marlins , and Remlins (same Models) side by side. Each gun is different. One Remlin might have a slightly better finish on the reciever , then the Marlin might have more tool marks , but a better fit where the lever joins the reciever....etc. etc..I know the GS rifles I have , The remlin comes in 1st place . That may sound strange , but I think every gun JM or Remlin is just going to be better in one area than the other.Remlin still cant seem to fit the rear stock as nicely as marlin did......and that erks me to no end , but it HAS got ALOT better .

 

difference from gun to gun is not exactly what i was saying in general the m700s they are not the same as the 80 and early 90s guns the sound of the lock up the feel and they seem to just feel tinny to me not that same solid feeling they once had

 

Search for the manufacture date posts on this website. Guns produced by Remington after the takeover were still marked with the JM proof mark right up through August of 2009 (3 years after Remington took over). After that, they used the REP mark. Just having the JM mark is not enough - has to be a pre-2006 production gun to be a true Marlin, rather than a Remlin. If you have an 1895 SS, then you are golden because they ceased production of that model after 2000.

 

To my understanding as long as Marlin rifles were being made in the NH. CT. facility the rifle was still being made by the same craftsmen that were making them in 2006 2005 2004 etc.etc. But Remington made Marlins made in NYS at the beginning were still using barrel and other parts from NH. CT. facility and may have a JM stamp on the barrel. But I believe that's no longer the case and Remington Marlins are being made better.

T:biggrin: NY

 

I hope so. It would be a real shame for the old Marlin quality to dissappear.