What load are you using. thanks.

 

3 types of factory amunition.
Hornady ftx, amrscor, and ammo inc target

I loaded up some rounds using h110, 23 grains to 23.9.

The primers have not shown the slightest signs of pressure as well. Besides the pin hit, they are perfect.

 

Sounds like the chamber is not perfectly round but oval instead. As to being normal...not with my guns.

 

Agree. my over sized chamber was oval and very sloppy in the rear on the bottom where the bullet feeds. he should mic a fired case .

 

Happens on low pressure loads, factory or hand loaded. Have seen this on both my 1894s (357 and 45colt) and low power loads on my 1895 45-70. Just not enough pressure for the cartridge to seal in the throat. Can also be caused by over hard brass not flexing and sealing the throat.

Also get blowback for same reason when shooting mild loads in my 357 gp100, 45colt vaquero and even when shooting 38sp in by Colt King Cobra.

If checked by Ruger, should be good to go.

 

Funny you say that. I shot some armcor cowboy loads through it. If would not put the powder on the next round. It was not untill I shot some of the hornady leverevelution I noticed it. I was under the assumption those hornady rounds are on the hotter side It happened with some ammo inc targets rouns, as well as a full power handload of h110.

 

Is it normal? I haven't a clue... just trying to think what I would do or ask considering if it bothered me...just trying to help.

1. Get a casting of your chamber of your Marlin 1894 .44 Mag. Now with a micrometer compare cast chamber size to a loaded cartridge case and see what difference between the chamber cast and the loaded cartridge size you use. This also allows you to inspect for a defect in the chamber if any are present.

2. Call Ruger ask them again or let you speak to a supervisor to get that information on what the factory chamber diameter measurement is set at on their Marlin 1894 in .44 Mag./factory measurement they use for their machining process. I can't imagine that it's proprietary/secret information. Anyway, once you get the info compare to what you have.. See if they are/were off (defective )or are you with in factory those factory tolerances. I could be nothing/normal and as far as defects go, it happens.

Just picking numbers at random here...
Example: your .44 Mag cartridge is .429 Diameter. Ruger says your chamber is cut at .432 Diameter per factory specification/tolerances. But your rifles cast chamber diameter reads .435 diameter. Or is oval/egg shaped or something else. Then you have a factory defect. NOT normal nor acceptable. Return it for a re-barrel. I would.

But TBH, I know that I don't want the chamber of my Marlin 1894 CBC .45 Colt (JM not Ruge-Marlin)to be so tight/close in diameters in relation to the cartridge and chamber: that when the rifle' chamber gets dirty, the fired cases get hard to eject or the case separates because of it. Or are having a hard time loading into the chamber or deforming the projectile either.

Your call of course...

Hope this helps.

Old Creek

 

Thank you for the information. I appreciate your feedback Old Creek.

What's the process for casting a chamber? Is that something I could research and do myself or will I need to take that to someone? I am fairly handy, and do most things myself. However, not everything is that simple.

 

So should I expect the case to be different widths depending on which part is oval?

I've noticed that the cases do not expand nearly as much as in other guns. I know, different chambers, but comparitely. The causes easily slide back into the chamber, and like I said, the primers are near perfect. As in no signs of pressure. Very odd

 

Never noticed that phenomena on my 1894 45 Colt levergun but then again whenever I shoot it at a match or at the range, I load the rounds 1 at a time so can't help much in that dept.

It does however, create blow-by from the chamber which has been an ongoing problem with it since day one when I purchased it in 2007. Initially I sent it back to Marlin and they rebarreled it. Greatly improved but still did it. I then tried neck sizing only and that worked ok but made it almost impossible to fit the case in the size die because of the bulge. My final attempt was to buy a new steel sizer die (from Redding since they seem to be the only ones selling them) and while the process went through some hiccups at 1st, it has dropped the blow-by quite a but not completely eliminated it.

 

Interesting. What tells you that the chamber is experiencing blowby?

 

... coulda been a leftover Remlin from the "good ole days"

 

If you’re getting deposits on the round in the magazine, I’m curious what the fired cases look like?

 

Usually a thin sheen of inconsistent black soot. I see if I have a picture, but after shooting, must of my brass is put in my pocket and comes somewhat clean

 

The SAAMI max pressure of the 44 mag is 36.000 psi. That pressure should be high enough to expand and mold the fired case to the size and shape of the chamber. However, blowback of gases can occur before the maximum chamber pressure is reached, and before the case seals against the chamber. (When the case expands enough to meet the chamber walls, the case should seal the propellant gases from that point onward.) The force generated by primer ignition itself is enough to push the bullet several inches into the barrel. So if powder ignition and the maximum generated pressure lags this event, gases can escape around the casing, even if the case does seal a few microseconds later.

I would measure my fired cases with a micrometer or a digital caliper around their circumference to see if any was out of round. That should give you an answer.

It could be that the commercial ammo you have does not generate enough pressure to completely seal the cases against the chamber walls.

Do you reload? If so, I would shoot a few of my warmer loads to see if there was still blowback and then measure those cases to see if they are out of round.

FWIW. propellent blowback is common with straight wall pistol calibers and cartridges.

Can you please post photos of your fired cases?

 

The SAAMI max pressure of the 44 mag is 36.000 psi. That pressure should be high enough to expand and mold the fired case to the size and shape of the chamber. However, blowback of gases can occur before the maximum chamber pressure is reached, and before the case seals against the chamber. (When the case expands enough to meet the chamber walls, the case should seal the propellant gases from that point onward.) The force generated by primer ignition itself is enough to push the bullet several inches into the barrel. So if powder ignition and the maximum generated pressure lags this event, gases can escape around the casing, even if the case does seal a few microseconds later.

I would measure my fired cases with a micrometer or a digital caliper around their circumference to see if any was out of round. That should give you an answer.

It could be that the commercial ammo you have does not generate enough pressure to completely seal the cases against the chamber walls.

Do you reload? If so, I would shoot a few of my warmer loads to see if there was still blowback and then measure those cases to see if they are out of round.

FWIW. propellent blowback is common with straight wall pistol calibers and cartridges.

Can you please post photos of your fired cases?

Yes l, I do reload and have some pictures of spent casings.

the one thing I noticed is the brass is hardly showing any signs of pressure. They barely expand, primers look near mint as well.

My theory is it is not building pressure as too much is escaping. Below are some case I fired with a 240 gr projectile with 23.9 grains of h110. The primers looked the same regardless of how I loaded them.(the ring around the hit on the primer is not from pressure. It's from the imprint of the burr that was present on the bolt)

For a comparison, here are some loads I shot out of a s&w revolver.

The 2 cases on the left was with 23.5 grains of h110. The case on the right was with 23.1 grains of h110.

I know this is not an apple's to apple's comparison, but just to show how little the primers form under what would be consider a hot load. Same is true of expansion of brass.

I have hornady brass here, but loaded up with 3 different headstamps and same results.

 

Have you tried ejecting the next round out through the loading gate to see if it has the scorch mark before going through the action? Are you getting similar residue on the riser or feed ramp? Ditto the chamber cast recommendations above. CerroSafe is easy to use and not very expensive. You might also want to see if someone will run a bore scope into the chamber for a picture.

 

So you are saying to fire it, leave the lever closed, and pop the round back through the loading gate?

No, I never had. But that could rule out something mechanical contacting it.

 

Try some Starline brass with your loads. I remember hard PMC brass not sealing doing something similar. Don't borrow trouble, Give the Ruger a chance.

 

I have some starling brass. I try it out

 

The Hornady brass is shorter to accommodate the FTX Bullet. I do not shoot that bullet so I got rid of all my Hornady brass. Even with light loads I do not see that kind of soot. I am using Starline for heavy loads and my WWB or Remington for powder puff Trailboss loads. I do not have any 44 special brass to compare.
1894 JM 2004 or 2006 DOM.

 

Mark Novak on youtube does a Cerosafe chamber cast. Easy to do probably a bit difficult on a Marlin. Measuring a fired case will not tell you much as the case expands to seal and then contracts after the pressure drops. That is why blowback autos work. Case grips chamber wall until after the bullet leaves the barrel then contracts. Your spent brass should be sooty too.
You can get chamber dimensions from SAAMMI.

 

Well, they sent the rifle back, actually yesterday!!

I was still emailing with the tech, and I didn't feel like we were resolved.

After talking with him some more, I'm 98% sure he thought I was talking about soot being deposited on the case thatvwas being fired in the chamber.

Especially because when I sent him the pictures of the sooty brass, he did not say, yep that's normal. He said to try and clean the gun.

No wonder they did not respond because it was already out the door.

 

To the original poster I would definitely be concerned if I laid down all that coin for a new Ruger Marlin and cartridges in my magazine tube had powder residue on them. Many of us reload with multiple styles and manufacturers of brass projectiles and powder and I would wager that many of us or most of us have never experienced this. You are not crazy!

 

Appreciate it. I hope a third time to ruger will be the charm. It's on its way back now and will be here tomorrow. Will test it and see if it still acts up. If not, I'll call ruger back and see about fixing the chamber. If they won't, I'll measure the chamber or have someone do so to determine if that is the issue.

 

Sorry to hear you’re having problems with your 1894. My Ruger 1894 44mag has had zero issues so far. Except. the trigger may need a little smoothing out.

 

Thank you. That's great to hear that yours is having no issues. Many have said the same. One thing I noticed was my bolt face have very poor machining marks and a large burr around the firing pin hole.
It's the bolt on the right. Other bolt is a remlin.

Does yours happen to look like that? Could you add a picture?

The reason I ask is 3 of the other problems I had were due to poor machining. I'm trying to figure out whether they all look like that, or mine is particularly bad.

 

Here is the face of my 1894 bolt. When you run your finger across it, it is smooth.

 

Wow, yours looks just about like mine. When I ran my finger across it, it was smooth except the the burr around the firing pin hole

 

As a professionally trained Gunsmith, go back and re read HIkayaker's responce. I would say.... what HE said. follow his suggestion and you will know if you have an out of round chamber. Incidentally, a 44 Rem Mag chamber does not necessarily have a case mouth shoulder in the chamber since it head spaces on its rim. So factories can chamber ream cylinder wall directly to barrel bore diameter. This type of chambering is more likely to provide blow back residue if the chamber is not a perfectly cut and reamed one. I have a JM 44 and it has little to no blow back on follow up cartridges or fired ones. Good Luck. I tangled with Ruger CS work once back in the 90's, They did a horrible job on a #1 reblue. I ended up redoing the gun for my customer to his relief & satisfaction. Recruiting "talented" craftsmen is all most non existent in the factories.

 

Thank you xtriggerman,

So you are saying blowback is possible, but just a small amount, and not a bunch every time?

I plan on having a chamber cast done as well if I get no where with ruger.

So with rugers hammer forged barrel, it's just the rifling grooves that are hammer forged, where as the chamber is then cut and reamed seperatly?

If I took this to a gunsmith today, what would be the course of action to fix it, a chamber cast? If thats wrong, then would it be a new barrel?

On an older gun, would this be acceptable?
Also, look under HIkayaker's post for my response and pictures of spent cases

 

... you'd think Ruger/Marlin would just take the old defective gun back and give him a new one instead of mickey-mousing him around

 

I just want a firearm that functions flawlessly. I could have been real nit picky about the scratches on the barrel, the scratched bluing on screws and around the screw holes, and he fit and finish with is at the edge of okay..

Really disappointed overall.

 

... a deformed firing chamber is not something that's user fixable unless you're a gunsmith ... a lemon is bound to slip thru quality control on any assembly line once in a while ... that's a given ... it's how the manufacturer makes this good for the customer who laid down his money and just wants to get what he paid for that separates the men from the boys ... come on Ruger !!

 

... some cowboy action loads are pretty anemic but NO factory load should be so under-loaded as to cause a failure of the brass cartridge walls to seal the chamber when the round is fired ... if several brands and power levels of factory ammo have been fired in the rifle and the blow-by persists I suspect a deformed/oversized firing chamber ... blow-by of gases can be destructive and dangerous to gun/shooter/by-standers

 

IMO, thius is normal. The chamber on pistol cartridge Marlins are oversize on purpose, to facilitate the straight walled case to cycle. That's why 44-40, 38-40, 32-20 are better in levers.. thinner cases, slope shoulder, they cycle easier.
I had an 1894s 44 mag that did this... with mid-power lever Unique loads. Faster powder might help. I should've got a 38-40 instead.

 

No need for a chamber casting. It will only show you exactly what a "new" factory loaded case will give you. It will fire form to the chamber and give you a mirror image of the chamber. Before firing the cartridge, take a sharpy and dot the top of the rim as it sits at a 12 O clock position. Reason being, these chambers "should" be some what throated at the bottom face edge of the chamber to facilitate smooth feeding. This is normally done by hand but IDK what Ruger has eliminated on the assembly line. If its still done the old fashion way, the assembler may or my not go too much in removing the 4-8 O clock chamber edge. A fired case or casting for that matter will give a slight bulging here at the ramping/throating of the chamber. When you take a 1" micrometer to the fired casing, dont be fooled by this slight bulging on the case just forward of the rim at the 6 O clock area. Thats normal At 1/2" forward of the rim, you should see no difference in casing OD as you go around the casing with your Mic. In gunsmithing, a fired bright and new brass casing is key in diagnosing chamber wall condition. Most of the extraction type issues may show up as bright golden line rings around the fired brass. This designates a chamber that was reamed with a dull reamer, reamed too fast, or sometimes just not spun polished to the degree a nice chamber should be. Digs in the chamber wall from chip galling will be line bulges expressing hard to non-extraction. Many hunting rifles fall prey to chamber pitting from bringing in a frozen gun from the hunt to a warm indoors. Condensation inside the barrel can start pitting a barrel bad enough to where extraction become a major issue. Here again, a clean fired casing is the key to this diagnosis. I'm telling you..... a clean , new fired casing is where the key information is at. Nuff said.

 

I fired some new cases, will these tell you anything?

 

So I received the rifle back today. Some interesting things happened and I noticed. I'll go over them

They replaced the front sight with their new and improved design.
It is noticeable different than their other. The biggest being thickness of the base and now both screws are accesable without removing the dovetail.

It does look straight now. If it is off, my eye alone cannot tell.

The bolt face is smoother now. Still a rough ring on it, but no large burr.

Tell me what you think of the bolt fit.

Is that okay?

 

The gun was attempted to be cleaned better than last, however, the barrel was still leaded up.

I ran a brush a few times, and then when back through with a patch. You can see the lead it picked up

I also shot it some and noticed that the blowback was still occurring, but not nearly as bad. See the pictures below.

Handload 23.5 gr of h110. Cantalure bullet with heavy crimp

Handload 23.5 grains of h110 with a lighter crimp(crimp did not seem to make a difference, it varied with both)

Ammo inc target rounds, less than before as I have pictures of it from before

Hornady leverevolution 225 hlgr ftx.
Sealed very well l with only a bit of blowback.

Light handloads of h110(not sure if this mixed with oil or what, but definelty worse on the cooler rounds.


I have not tried with hotter handloads because I didn't have any loaded up and ready to go

That's where I'm at now. So I guess I'm even more confused than before.