I am a "steel" guy. The extra weight helps with recoil and control, and steel is not only more resilient than Aluminum, but especially in the case of a semi auto the steels can be "worked" to tighten up slide to frame fit, etc. Aluminum "work hardens" and can be stressed in high use applications...another thought to consider.

For my new carry pistol I have chosen the CZ 75 Compact...steel frame. They make the same pistol with an Aluminum frame. The steel frame model weighs 32.8 ounces, and the Aluminum frame model weighs 28.1 ounces.....for a 4.7 ounce difference. I can accept that difference for the recoil and control factor, plus the longevity that the steel frame will offer.

All this is really a "personal" type of decision. Some folks like a lighter handgun, and folks like myself want something with a little more heft.

Also depends on "use". If the gun is carried more and shot less, the Aluminum frame could be the way to go for some, but, if the gun is intended for high round count shooting, the steel would be the better choice. ....a light gun can be abusive with stiff loads, but, that would also be a product of the cartridge, load, etc. I prefer to shoot with a "duty" load regardless of whether I am playing or seriously practicing, so again its steel for me.

 

My wife has a S&W 36 chief special it is bad enough with recoil, I don't think I want to carry or shoot a lighter frame..:marchmellow:

 

I had a S&W airlight I think is the scanadium frame in 22 WMR, that was the easiest, best carry pistol I have ever owned... just always stuck in my head on the 22 mag, but the weight along with the size of the J-frame made for a perfect combo topped with the lightweight 22 mag ammo.

I wouldn't call the airweight, and airlights hype as they have stood up well over time, but they have a place like all things making great concealed carry, or carry/fishing/utility guns, the reduced weight doesn't help recoil tho... even in the 38 spl the airweight can be a handful

 

Curiosity Question - I assume that the aluminum stands up to the pressure, but does it hold strength over time, or does it eventually fail from repeated exposure to it?

 

I think aluminum is okay if the proper alloy is forged into the shape of the gun part. Anything that is investment cast is not as good. If Scandium is used because it enhances corrosion then okay but I don't see how the cost can justify the use of it unless it can withstand 3X proof loads.

 

I'm not sure exactly what is in "Scandium" and how the alloy compares with aluminum alloy. Smith's, and others', aluminum framed handguns have a service life considerably less than steel. Aluminum framed 1911s and even Smith's 6906 have a reputation for cracking eventually. If the Scandium offers a better frame life, then it would be well worth it.

The main advantage of the alloy frames is weight reduction. I don't believe any manufacturer expects their alloy framed weapons to hold up as well as steel. However, they are intended for carry weapons, and light weight carry weapons, at that. If, because of their light weight, they are carried more often then their steel framed cousins, then they have served their purpose.

Incidentally, I have a S&W 317 .22 LR. It seems to weigh no more than if it were made of cardboard. It's amazingly light. It will ride in a pocket without any noticeable weight at all. I carry it when I cycle.

 

I always thought of the phrase "build and they will come". I'm sure there are advantages but for the cost I'll pass.

 

It's a trade-off less weight for less durability. For certain pursuits where a gun is a tool, like for police the trade-off is worth it. Like any other tool, it has a lifespan. It wears out you replace it. Other uses would result in less carry and light use, survival or carry for defense. If buying a handgun you figure on shooting hundreds of rds through, you would be better served with a steel gun.

 

Far from hype, scandium is added to aliminum alloys, at which it is much harder, as in ceremic hard and as tough as titanium. Pretty much ideal for the aerospace industry, where it used alot, and perfect for light weight weapons of even major caliber, that will stand the test time, long after a conventional alluminum alloy and many steels would have given up the ghost.

 

Graymustang,

Thank you........I didn't really know what Scandium is................

While I don't have any Aluminum framed guns, my neighbor has a Scandium framed S&W 44 Mag. I think he's shot it ONCE, I've handled it, and it seems to be a really nice hiking / woods walking gun to be used for self defense............Maybe I'll tell him I want to shoot it.....Sometimes, I like a little punishment!............

Thanks.

Tom

 

I own 3, A 340 M&P 357 mag usually I shoot +P .38. A 327 N- frame 8 shot .357 and a 329 Night Guard .44 mag. From what I read Scandium is a REALLY expensive metal that is alloyed with Aluminum to make it much stronger. They all are light as a feather ( read don't pull your pants down) But granted they are a handful to shoot magnum rounds thru. Practice with .38 or .44 specials but carry with hotter rounds. I handload so I make light .357 mags. Smith claims they will last a long time. My advice would be to shoot one before you just write tthem off

 

A google search on Scandium (very good article copy/pasted first paragraph) http://www.scandiummining.com/i/pdf/Scandium-Alloy-Fact-Sheet.pdf

WHAT DO

ES SCANDIUM DO?

Scandium, like other metals alloyed with aluminum, imparts strength and desirable
properties to aluminum, and does so in some measure to each of the eight alloy
families (Series). Scandium additions generate strength by promoting a smaller,
even-sized grain structure in alloys during solidification. Scandium shows better
strength response in some alloy families than others, but almost always with quite
small additions – between 0.1% and 0.45% Sc.


STRENGTH MATTERS FIRST
Strength is undoubtedly the single most important determinant in alloy selection for a particular manufactured
part or application. Strength determines design, weight, and often defines the manufacturing process required
to form a particular part on the manufacturing floor. Virtually all high strength alloys achieve their strength with
careful heat treatments, once in final form, which adds both cost and the potential for process failure through
unsuccessful grain refinement/repair or non-correctable deformation of finished parts.
Strength is achieved by
controlling grain growth
, keeping metal grain size small, and relieving internal stresses in the microstructure.
Scandium is excellent at this
, by promoting a small, equiaxed grain structure, and doing so in the natural
solidification process – rather than requiring complex and specific heat treatments post manufacture.
OTHER METAL PROPERTIES MATTER TOO
Other measurable properties also play a key role in aluminum alloy application, affecting usability and alloy
price. Alloy properties are what determine tolerance to harsh operating environments, damage resistance, life-
cycle estimates, weldability, and overall performance. They also determine (or dictate) specific manufacturing
techniques, to achieve part designs and meet production cost targets. Alloy properties translate either into
direct part build cost – or cost savings – on the manufacturing shop floor. In short-they significantly influence the
fit-for-purpose selection process. Therefore,
once minimum strength requirements are met for a given design,
the alloy selection process then becomes one of preserving the greatest number of usable properties
, or
sometimes, simply finding the alloy that can meet the essential property requirement for a particular application.
Scandium alloys are fully recyclable, and won’t pollute recycle streams if combined with other alloys – although it
may make economic sense to segregate based on value

 

I broke down and fell in love with a S&W 1911 Performance Center 4.25" and decided to buy it.

After shooting it this afternoon .... I'm glad I made the decision to buy it over the standard E Series Smith and Wesson offers.

The quality and craftsmanship of this pistol is amazing, and yes ... it's a Scandium Frame 1911. :laugh:

I bought it because it's actually lighter than the Kimber Covert Pro I was looking at.

 

It appears me that Scandium has been around for a long time being used in an alloying of higher strength aluminum utilizing it as a strengthening alloy.

Here is a report from NASA. https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20050158693.pdf

I am no metallurgist, but to me it looks like a standard 7075 series of aluminum that has been used successfully for decades in firearms construction by many other gunmakers.

My question, "Is S&W simply picking out a small amount of alloying metal with the exotic sounding name of Scandium, that has been present in high strength aluminum alloys all along?"

Would a gunmaker tout the small amounts of traces found in any other common gun metal alloys?

Has it been a component of their aluminum framed guns as well as other makers guns all along?

AC

 

A little more info from the Gurus at work. Scandium raises the tensile strength significantly in the lower strength aluminum alloys.

By far the strongest aluminum alloy is the 7075 series. Its strength is increased by a mere 6%, the least gain of the alloys with the adding of Scandium. Significant, but not greatly so. Makes for great sales hype. May make for 2-3 ounces lighter if the frame was reduced to still be as strong as conventional 7075 aluminum alloys. I doubt S&W would completely re-engineer their guns for so little weight savings. It is more beneficial to have a theoretically 6% stronger gun?

AC

 

I currently own two Scandium Smiths, a Backpacker IV in 44mag and a Niteguard in 45ACP. I have also owned the 4" scandium framed 44mag, but let that one go. I love the scandium frames for what they are! Super lightweight! These are mostly my "carry around town" guns and I load the 44mag with 44spls, no special loads for the 45ACP! The 44mags are definitely a handful! But you can shoot this thing with no issue and decent accuracy. However, you will need to crimp the bullets a bit due to bullet creep if you don't! They are an absolute pleasure to carry all day long! They will get the job done and I haven't had any issue with them except for the Backpacker shooting it's cylinder release apart due to the recoil! But S&W fixed it for free.
I wouldn't recommend a steady diet of 44mags from it (not worried about the gun, but my hands!), but 44spls you can shoot all day long and for carry defense, you don't need more than that!
I bought both of mine used, they are expensive due to the Scandium frames! Which as I understand it is why S&W discontinued the Night Guard series...they were over $1000 new!

 

For a gun that is not shot often and where weight matters (like backpacking or bowhunting) the 329 in 44 magnum stoked with CorBons is just the ticket. My 60 year old 38 spec Chief's airweight is also a delight to stuff in a pocket holster for walking around town.

More apt to carry a light gun than a heavy one.

 

Ha! Yea, I only mentioned my full size lightweights! Forgot to mention my old Colt Cobra and my old S&W Model 37! Might need to start carrying a Pre-Model 10 since I prefer 6 shots to 5!

 

They have never interested me. I'll put up with the weight of a steel frame for the benefits of easier shooting. Ask yourself what do want in your hand if you had to make a shot - that's what you should be carrying. Back MANY years ago one of the videos used in LFI, people were asked that were involved in a shooting and that had the ability to change guns what they carried now - around 75% were a Commander or full size 1911. Once you have been there little guns no longer seemed very desirable. This is something I have come back to recently for myself.

 

OK. Scandium frame and more likely to be carried because it’s a few ounces lighter. And in .45ACP!

 

I own an S&W 386sc 7 shot 357 magnum revolver. It' has "Mountain Lite" on one side of the barrel, and "Airlite" engraved in the frame. I purchased it new probably 8 years ago. These scandium frame revolvers, IMHO are made to carry often... and not so much shoot often.

I load heavy 357 handloads for it, yet with the proper set of wooden grips, I don't find the recoil "obnoxious." It's a very accurate little revolver as I once killed a groundhog at 35 yards with it.

Empty it weighs 18oz. More loaded... but I carry it all day during archery season and I don't even know it's there. I've never had a problem with the little revolver and it's one I'll likely never sell.

FWIW

 

I have a Smith purchased for my wife because she and my sister are gun experts and poor old me a semi edubacated hillbilly who has been around firearms all my life can not appreciate high tech material on a firearm. The smith is a nice light revolver but its not the quality of blue steel or stainless and when aiming I like to feel the weapon in my hands over the lightness of the new material.

 

We were mainly discussing firearms applications, and he is under the impression that Scandium Alloy only offers a minimal advantage over Standard Aluminum, and the main 'Selling Point' is weight reduction over Steel.

The Scandium frames hold up to .357M/.44M level loads, which the aluminum frames will not accommodate. If you have the chance to put a few rounds of .357 Magnum anything through a M360, or .44M through a M329, it's "enlightening". I suspect that most of those are not fed full power magnum loads, and are more likely used with the more potent Special loads in each caliber. They are definitely Light in the holster, great to carry, but not so great to shoot. At least with my hands.

Most of those guns will hold up well as few can shoot them enough to wear one out.

I have a M637, and there's a place for lighter revolvers in my collection. They WILL shoot accurately, with some practice, and they are great for carry as a CCW. I use ammunition with standard pressure levels, not mouse loads, but not +P loads. It's a .38, and the difference between +P and standard loads is not that great. If I need more power, I have .357's, and I can live with the extra weight if I actually think I need that.

Is scandium alloy stronger? No doubt. Is it worth it? Could be.

 

386sc. Scandium frame. Titanium 7 shot cylinder.

 

Just for grins, and because my Bulldog is the lightest and most comfortable handgun I have ever had the pleasure to carry, I went ahead and weighed it in three conditions...unloaded, loaded, and loaded with holster. The stainless steel with aluminum grip frame revolver weighed 18 7/8 ounces unloaded, 23 ounces loaded (with 250 grain Keith HP's), and loaded with holster, the weight was 25 3/4 ounces.

So, at a bit over a pound and a half, loaded with holster, I find that I can wear this gun all day and hardly realize it is there. Would seem to me that any full rig (loaded with holster and handgun) under 2 pounds should be pretty comfortable as a daily carry companion.

I am sure that there are all steel framed handguns that could meet that criteria.

 

Flat Top,

I don't know the weight, but my Sig P938 is also very comfortable to wear...........I put it on my belt in a OWB holster in the morning, and I forget it's on my belt in a few minutes............
Although, if I carry it in a pocket holster in the back pocket of my Levis, I know it's there, but it's still comfortable...........

The Sig P 938............The greatest little 9MM CCW I've seen yet............

Tom