Looking through the peep forces bad eyes to focus. I can still shoot open sights ok.

 

Pretty good explanation, Erik. I hope that's the deer you shot this past season.

 

I can remember being taught " Target, foresight, backsight, target, foresight, target, fire.

It kinda happens in a very small moment in time. Identify target, place foresight beed on it, check your level and centre on backsight, spot the target, spot the bead, spot the target and squeeze her off.

I have always preferred a round bead and a 'U' sight to a straight post and a slot, they are much finer and less obscuring.

And dont forget you should be breathing out and firing when breath is exhausted.

We used to shoot three second shots at 25 yards with a 22, raise rifle, releasing safety, line up the target, and nail it by the count of three. Was lots of good fun, and helped heaps when in tight bush and forest.

And last of all, with irons, tell yourself, "aim small, miss small " ( I see that was on someones signature here. Never a truer word, nor better advice. )

Just how I was taught

 

Lotsa good pointers from everyone there....

 

Pretty good explanation, Erik. I hope that's the deer you shot this past season.

Ha! Hardly.

It is representative of how I usually find nice bucks though. Looking right at me before all I see is tail. ;D

 

good post Erik. I like a bead better with a peep sight but its a personal preference. I also like a front sight dovetailed into the barrel better so theres nothing in the sight picture but the front sight & the target. I do fine with the ramps but they clutter things up more than I like.

 

Erik, that was an excellent explanation on the use of iron sights. The only thing you left out is the distinction between a six o'clock hold and a dead on hold. The six o'clock hold is when you put the aim point of the target appearing to rest on top of the front sight. The dead on hold is when you place the tip of the front sight superimposed directly over the aim point.

I am a certified firearms instructor, and, when I used to teach CCW classes I spent a good deal of time on explaining the use of iron sights, and I wrote an instruction manual with illustrations like yours. With so much emphasis on the use of scopes nowadays, all too many individuals have never spent much time in gaining proficiency with iron sights. It's too bad.

 

I put a peep on My Glenfield this afternoon and was practicing the hold. Now if the snow would EVER leave, I could actually get to the range and do some shooting!

 

Erik, that was an excellent explanation on the use of iron sights. The only thing you left out is the distinction between a six o'clock hold and a dead on hold. The six o'clock hold is when you put the aim point of the target appearing to rest on top of the front sight. The dead on hold is when you place the tip of the front sight superimposed directly over the aim point.

I am a certified firearms instructor, and, when I used to teach CCW classes I spent a good deal of time on explaining the use of iron sights, and I wrote an instruction manual with illustrations like yours. With so much emphasis on the use of scopes nowadays, all too many individuals have never spent much time in gaining proficiency with iron sights. It's too bad.

Thank you Brian. I was never formally taught the 6 o'clock hold. The dead-on hold was all I ever knew for a good while. The dead-on is just so natural to me now I didn't even think to mention the 6 o'clock. Thanks for bringing it up.

There is no question scopes have their place and are a vital tool in many scenarios, but I personally believe a lot of folks gravitate toward them just because it seems the thing to do and they don't actually know how to use irons. I also believe folks think they really "need" to see the target so scopes fit that bill. When in reality, as long as you can identify the target then all you really need to be able to do is get your sight alignment.

Where I live, hunter after hunter after hunter, will tell story after story after story of the game they have taken at 35, 50, 70, 90, 110yrds. It is much more a rarity to hear about the 200, 235, 250yrd shots. But mention an iron sighted lever gun and they'll look at you like you're some kind of idiot. :

 

I tend to use a 6:00 hold with regular open sights but never with an aperture. Regular iron sights block out too much of the target for me beyond 25 yards or so so I put the target on top of my front sight, thats difficult with a bead. With a peep sight I just put the bead on the target or vitals & squeeze the trigger.

 

Thanks for the primer, Erik.

I'd like to take this rifle elk hunting next fall. I'll have all Summer to practice this technique.

 

Thanks for the primer, Erik.

I'd like to take this rifle elk hunting next fall. I'll have all Summer to practice this technique.

Well, I hope it helps.

That's a pretty rifle and would be very rewarding on an elk hunt.

 

Erik, that was an excellent explanation on the use of iron sights. The only thing you left out is the distinction between a six o'clock hold and a dead on hold. The six o'clock hold is when you put the aim point of the target appearing to rest on top of the front sight. The dead on hold is when you place the tip of the front sight superimposed directly over the aim point.

I am a certified firearms instructor, and, when I used to teach CCW classes I spent a good deal of time on explaining the use of iron sights, and I wrote an instruction manual with illustrations like yours. With so much emphasis on the use of scopes nowadays, all too many individuals have never spent much time in gaining proficiency with iron sights. It's too bad.

Thank you Brian. I was never formally taught the 6 o'clock hold. The dead-on hold was all I ever knew for a good while. The dead-on is just so natural to me now I didn't even think to mention the 6 o'clock. Thanks for bringing it up.

There is no question scopes have their place and are a vital tool in many scenarios, but I personally believe a lot of folks gravitate toward them just because it seems the thing to do and they don't actually know how to use irons. I also believe folks think they really "need" to see the target so scopes fit that bill. When in reality, as long as you can identify the target then all you really need to be able to do is get your sight alignment.

Where I live, hunter after hunter after hunter, will tell story after story after story of the game they have taken at 35, 50, 70, 90, 110yrds. It is much more a rarity to hear about the 200, 235, 250yrd shots. But mention an iron sighted lever gun and they'll look at you like you're some kind of idiot. :

The six o'clock hold comes in handy at the range, especially when the bullseye area is black. When I last hunted in NYS with my Winchester 94 and its Williams 5D, I used the dead on hold for deer. I didn't have a Marlin back then. I agree with Leverdude's point of using the six o'clock hold with open sights and the dead on hold with apertures on game. At the range, I use the six o'clock hold with both as the front sight tends to get lost on a black bullseye for me. Maybe I ought to paint my front sight with some kind of day glo color.

 

Thanks for the primer, Erik.

I'd like to take this rifle elk hunting next fall. I'll have all Summer to practice this technique.

What exactly is that rifle?

 

Brian,

There are products on the market for that. I've heard mixed reviews. Some folks say it works great and really lasts, others say not so much. Never tried it myself so I can't give a good first hand opinion.

Some folks also use the paint markers you can buy in craft stores.

 

Thanks for the primer, Erik.

I'd like to take this rifle elk hunting next fall. I'll have all Summer to practice this technique.

What exactly is that rifle?

It's an 1895 Century Limited in 45-70.

 

Erik, that was an excellent explanation on the use of iron sights. The only thing you left out is the distinction between a six o'clock hold and a dead on hold. The six o'clock hold is when you put the aim point of the target appearing to rest on top of the front sight. The dead on hold is when you place the tip of the front sight superimposed directly over the aim point.

I am a certified firearms instructor, and, when I used to teach CCW classes I spent a good deal of time on explaining the use of iron sights, and I wrote an instruction manual with illustrations like yours. With so much emphasis on the use of scopes nowadays, all too many individuals have never spent much time in gaining proficiency with iron sights. It's too bad.

Thank you Brian. I was never formally taught the 6 o'clock hold. The dead-on hold was all I ever knew for a good while. The dead-on is just so natural to me now I didn't even think to mention the 6 o'clock. Thanks for bringing it up.

There is no question scopes have their place and are a vital tool in many scenarios, but I personally believe a lot of folks gravitate toward them just because it seems the thing to do and they don't actually know how to use irons. I also believe folks think they really "need" to see the target so scopes fit that bill. When in reality, as long as you can identify the target then all you really need to be able to do is get your sight alignment.

Where I live, hunter after hunter after hunter, will tell story after story after story of the game they have taken at 35, 50, 70, 90, 110yrds. It is much more a rarity to hear about the 200, 235, 250yrd shots. But mention an iron sighted lever gun and they'll look at you like you're some kind of idiot. :

The six o'clock hold comes in handy at the range, especially when the bullseye area is black. When I last hunted in NYS with my Winchester 94 and its Williams 5D, I used the dead on hold for deer. I didn't have a Marlin back then. I agree with Leverdude's point of using the six o'clock hold with open sights and the dead on hold with apertures on game. At the range, I use the six o'clock hold with both as the front sight tends to get lost on a black bullseye for me. Maybe I ought to paint my front sight with some kind of day glo color.

Thats why I like a brass bead, prefferable flat faced. A swipe with fine abrasive paper or anything similar brightens it right up. I should say it needs to be a fine bead. Some I'v seen must run 3/32" & are too big for me.

 

Brian,

There are products on the market for that. I've heard mixed reviews. Some folks say it works great and really lasts, others say not so much. Never tried it myself so I can't give a good first hand opinion.

Some folks also use the paint markers you can buy in craft stores.

I've read that some people use the enamel that's made for touching up kitchen appliances like refrigerators. Ivory is said to be a good color. I don't think I'd want to use a fire sight. From what I'm hearing they are too fragile. Or I can just go on with how I've been doing, and use a six o'clock hold at the range. I don't know if I'll want to be hunting with my receiver sighted rifles any more. I've got plenty of scoped Marlins for that ... and more to come. ;D

 

Brian,

There are products on the market for that. I've heard mixed reviews. Some folks say it works great and really lasts, others say not so much. Never tried it myself so I can't give a good first hand opinion.

Some folks also use the paint markers you can buy in craft stores.

I've read that some people use the enamel that's made for touching up kitchen appliances like refrigerators. Ivory is said to be a good color. I don't think I'd want to use a fire sight. From what I'm hearing they are too fragile. Or I can just go on with how I've been doing, and use a six o'clock hold at the range. I don't know if I'll want to be hunting with my receiver sighted rifles any more. I've got plenty of scoped Marlins for that ... and more to come. ;D

Theres that tritium paint stuff they use for archery pins too, might be nice on a front sight. I'm afraid of fire sights too for the same reason you mention but its probably unfounded.

 

Good discussion Erik. A lot of folks don't realize how well good sights can work, both at the range and in the field!

Semper Fi, Guy

 

I've something in a couple posts recently that made me want to resurrect this thread and add something...

I've been reading folks saying things like, "I have to put the front post at the bottom of the rear sight." Or similar such statements about moving the front sight around in the rear sight.

Others may not agree but I believe this is a bad practice. I would suggest keeping the sight alignment the same every time. Keep that front post centered in the rear sight no matter where your rounds are impacting on the target. Then adjust your aim on the target. Move your entire sight picture to adjust for where ever the point of impact (POI) is.

Basically, if you're consistently shooting low, line your sights up as normal on the center of the target, then raise your aim, without changing the sight alignment.

Hope that makes sense.


Another thing I've been reading along these lines concerns making adjustments for POI. I'm seeing discussions and some targets where rounds are rather scattered and while they may trend to given spot, there are no discernible groups.

Folks, you have to shoot groups before you start adjusting your sights. I prefer three shot groups as that was how I was trained, it keeps the bbl a little cooler, and uses less ammo. But if you can't produce consistent groups, no matter where on the target they are, there's really no way of knowing how to adjust the sights.

In the service we shot for zero at 25 meters on a small target that simulated a man at 100m. We did this from the prone supported position, which meant elbows toughing the ground and rifle on sandbags, we did not use shooting tables rifle rests or vices. You did not touch your sights nor would a Range Official give you any advice until you shot a three-shot group of one inch or less. The theory being, if you're rounds are scattered, even if they incline to a certain area on the target, it is most likely your shooting fundamentals causing the problem and no sight adjustments on the planet will compensate for that. And yes, more than once I saw a shooter swear his rifle was messed up only to have the RO shooting it from a standing unsupported position and produce decent groups.

So, practice grouping first. Then start making any needed adjustments.

Things that are indicative of crown damage for example would be shots wildly scattered all over the target with rhyme, reason, or pattern and key-holed shots.

So, hope that helps some more folks out there and by all means if anyone has anything to add or sees fault in what I've offered, please reply. This is a discussion designed to help people and I left my ego at the mouse click.

 

Folks, you have to shoot groups before you start adjusting your sights. I prefer three shot groups as that was how I was trained, it keeps the bbl a little cooler, and uses less ammo. But if you can't produce consistent groups, no matter where on the target they are, there's really no way of knowing how to adjust the sights.

Erik,

This is so true. When I first started shooting, I would adjust my sights after every shot. 10 rounds later, I was all over the place with no way to get back to the start. If I would have taken your advice back then, I would have svaed a lot of time and money. Now I start at 25 yrds, shoot a 3rd group, adjust sights and repeat until I am happy. Then I do it again at 100yrds. Good advice.

 

Erik,

This is so true. When I first started shooting, I would adjust my sights after every shot. 10 rounds later, I was all over the place with no way to get back to the start. If I would have taken your advice back then, I would have svaed a lot of time and money. Now I start at 25 yrds, shoot a 3rd group, adjust sights and repeat until I am happy. Then I do it again at 100yrds. Good advice.

Don't think you're alone Ron. A lot of folks do that and it's an easy trap to get pulled into if you've never been taught different.

I have been taught different and still sometimes have to remind myself to be patient.

 

Eli,

Thanks for your post. I have been trying to relearn iron sights shooting with bifocals. Problem #1 is that when trying to us no glasses this is what I see:

With glasses this is what I see:

But I am getting better.

 

I wish I had good advice to give T-Bone but not wearing glasses I just don't. And I know bifocals a re bigger challenge than other glasses.

I do know it surely can be done I just don't know how to give advice to help.

Maybe one of our other split-lensed friends will weigh in.