You're gonna do alot of meat damage with either of those at 2025.

 

I doubt the meat damage will be worse than any of a number of standard deer cartridges.
Re: 270win, 30-06, 7-08, .308, 300 win mag.

 

The 250gr Monoflex will shed energy and velocity like water off a ducks back!

The Hornady FTX 325gr is a very fragile bullet, very accurate but destructive if heavy muscle or bone is struck.

Velocity is part of the issue here.

Just sooooo greatly better is a cast Wide Flat Nose (WFN) bullet of 400 or more grains at a velocity of 1400 - 1700fps +/- Awesome game taking ability and less destructive, but with looooong/deep penetration.

On lighter game such as deer, great put down without the destructiveness.

Yep, been there and seen it on deer and elk with my 465gr WFN at 1650fps.

If a person wants light for caliber bullets in the 45/70, well there are just so much better cartridge/caliber choices for those lighter projectiles.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

 

No experience with the 250 MonoFlex but it will lose little to no weight and penetrate like a drill. Should be an excellent bullet. Not sure what you're referring to as midrange, but under 200yds it should be a hammer.


Barnes data shows their 250's running 2400-2500fps with top charges which would extend your range some.

 

Crusty Deary ol Coot has shared a bit of wisdom which we all should reflect upon.

On the other hand, not everyone needs a bullet which delivers "long deep penetration".
Many deer hunters simply wish a bullet that can penetrate the average thickness of a deer and little more afterwards.

For this reason I chose to reflect upon two factory loads for the 45-70 which are popular among deer hunters.
In this comparision, I'm looking at Federal's 300gr Fusion and the 250gr Hornady monolith.

Basically, both of these bullets will loose apx 35% of their velocity at a distance of 200yrds.

However, the 250gr Monolith will loose apx 60% of its energy at 200yrds vs a 43% reduction in energy for the 300gr Fusion.

This appears off hand to be a fairly large negative towards the 250gr monolith.
However, it should be known that even at these energy levels a Hornady monolith still can deliver full penetration.

Is there a positive towards using the Hornady bullet?
I suppose the most obvious would be à trajectory which is much flatter.

In my opinion, I agree the big slow slug is probably the better choice for those wanting an all around bullet choice.
With this being said, I also see no reason why the 250gr monolith wouldn't make a fine choice for deer at moderate distances.

Shoot a few deer with both of your choices and return with your results. ☺

 

Yes, and I am a one load (hunting) for one rifle person.

Little wisdom found in have multiple hunting loads for one hunting rifle.

For that reason, the best and optimum choice for the 45/70 would be something 400gr or more.

Correct, not everyone needs long and deep penetration, but it simply is a bonus factor with the 400gr + weight of bullets.

If a person is wanting better trajectory, well again, there are just so much better cartridge choices then attempting to make the 45/70 into what it never will be. .444, 375, 35s etc. All of which can be worthy cast bullet cartridges and all of which offer much better trajectories if that is the desire.

I have hunted with a 355gr - non-expanding WFN (Wide Flat Nose) bullet at 2300fps and never ever want to see that size of a wound channel again. EVER! So, light bullets at + 2000fps is not something I ever want to see again, with any 45 caliber bullet. Yep, been there and seen that!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

 

I'm not so sure that any of the manufactures are attempting to re-invent the 45-70, but rather improve upon it.

Obviously, the point of either accept the 45-70 "as is" or move on has failed numerous times over the years.

I'm sure in 1892 someone was content with the use of blackpowder and stated "If you don't care for the 45-70s performance you should purchase a 30-40 Krag rather than change the 45-70 as it was designed".

Over the years the 45-70 has continued to improve with technology in such areas as smokeless powders and bullet styles both cast and jacketed. Today's modern 45-70 is a much different cartridge than it once was regarding both velocities and trajectory.

I wonder how popular the 45-70 would currently be if we had to accept it as offered in 1873?

I'm sure many would embrace the idea of a low pressure, blackpowder cartridges firing cast paper patched bullets, but far more wouldnt.

Basically, times have changed and thankfully the 45-70 has not only embraced change, but has improved in doing so.

With this in mind, I relish the idea of change so long as there is an improvement over what is currently accepted as the norm.

Is the 250 gr Hornady monolith a poor choice for a mid ranged deer cartridge?
Beyond the fact it has a flatter trajectory than many current 45-70 factory offerings I honestly cannot say.
( I've never hunted with it)
However, for many people having a flatter trajectory in itself is a improvement worthy of consideration

 

If I were reloading these I would keep velocity under ​2000fps.

 

If it's a properly built monolithic, built along the lines of a Barnes, then you can zing the heck out of it.

I don't have experience with the .45-70 Barnes or the Hornady bullet in question, but have used the TSX and TTSX in other calibers. I push them HARD, and they penetrate very, very good, especially if bone is encountered. They hold up well at close range and perform satisfactorily at longer range, though I believe Cup-n-Core bullets are better for reduced velocity.

The TSX and TTSX are the only bullets I have used that consistently penetrated Whitetails through and through from my .243 at close range, none of the 100 grain Cup-n-Cores are up to that impact level. I am going to try, on recommendation, the 95 grain NBT this year, but I won't be surprised if it fails to completely pass through a deer at 20 to 50 yards.

As has been pointed out, though, you will lose speed fast at the longer ranges. Though a 250 grain monolithic bullet will have the length of a heavier bullet, it still will be a little ways from the ideal SD of a .45 caliber bullet for use at distance. Once they start to lose speed, it's like they have the brakes on.

If it were me, I'd run them hard and stay at intermediate ranges. But I bet they'd work like gangbusters to 150 or so yards.

 

If I were reloading these I would keep the velocity OVER 2,000 fps. Light for caliber monoliths typically perform best at high velocity. That is one reason why "light for caliber" Barnes X bullets are typically used.
Just another opinion as I have not used these 250 monos but I have used the Barnes 300 XFN in my 45-70.

 

Hunts.

At one time I had thought the same thing.
However, Coot made a good point to me some time back regarding the 45-70 and penetration.

Basically, what i learned about penetration can be summed up below.
Light bullet + high velocity= acceptable penetration (re: long/short action cartridges)
Heavy bullet + low velocity= acceptable penetration (re: standard 45-70 choices)
Heavy bullet + high velocity= unacceptable recoil. (re: masochism)

I believe winchester did well in designing their latest line of Deerfield cartridges for the standard rifle cartridges.
With this in mind, I would love for them to add a line of cartridges for lever actions with deer hunting as its goal.
Until then, I will probably keep shooting Winchesters 300gr hp

 

Hunters like Selous used a 365 gr bullet at about 1750fps to slay plenty of beasts in Africa years ago. The .45-70 already has plenty of bullet diameter and does not really need to expand to be effective. Judging from the photos I have seen of the 250 when expanded it barely opens up at all anyhow. Small petals fold back a short distance. Even though the mono is not a 430gr bullet I think it will perform well below 2000fps. I could be wrong though. Give it a shot and see what happens. I'd bet a crisp $20 bill that the 250 mono will penetrate more water jugs at 1500fps then it will at 2300fps.

I shoot a 140 Barnes TSX in my 7mm-08 and it can use all the expansion it can get so velocity is king and I aim for 2850-2900fps. Have killed several elk, bison, and many deer and antelope with this setup.

 

Very poor bullet choice when there are just so many better choices, but ---------------

Hornady says the 250gr monoflex is rated for 1400- 2500fps

The burger on the hoof gummy nose FTX 325gr is rated for 1300 - 2300.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

 

The burger on the hoof gummy nose FTX

Good description.

 

I think you would be so much better with a 400 gr or a little higher bullet. I shoot 405 gr cast with a large meplat at about 1650 fps and they do the job well.

Bill

 

Hoestly, I wish that manufactures other than Remington would offer a 405gr softpoint suitable for hunting.

 

I know this is a bit of “thread drift”, but if you’re looking for a softpoint other than the 405-grain Remington, try the Speer 400-grain JSP. This bullet, according to Speer, is suitable for all North American game except grizzly/polar bears. I’ve only used them on whitetails. This is the most accurate bullet I’ve ever shot out of my Classic Model 1895 (1.5” groups at 100 yards). I drive it faster than necessary (MV 1,800 fps). Longest kill shot so far has been 163 lasered yards. They really flatten deer. I order them from Midway.

 

I have a box of the 250's on the shelf been planning for a long time now to load them in/for my 14" barreled T/C Contender carbine need to find time to get them loaded.

 

I don't know if this is of any help, but i have been using the 250gr monoflex out of the mighty .460 Weatherby Magnum.... running hot, for medium game (mainly cos i like to shoot that rifle and 500gr bullets over 2500 fps are not needed for anything here)...

It is actually pleasant to shoot, is like a laser out of such a large bore and hits like 2 locomotives in tandem! Can be messy if large bone is hit.... I have never found a bullet in game - ever!

My other load for heavier game is a cast lead 430gr gas checked bullet running on 2000fps - never recovered one of them either :biggrin:

 

I don't know if this is of any help, but i have been using the 250gr monoflex out of the mighty .460 Weatherby Magnum...

You really ought to use a cartridge that has some real potential for velocity......:biggrin:

 

I have been shooting the 45-70 for a number of years. Have not hunted with it a lot, though as I have had injuries that kept my hunting time down. I have killed enough deer and hogs with it to figure out what I want to use. Finally, I am able to get out more and hunt and get serious about my 45-70. Everything I have learned points to a 400 plus grain cast at low to moderate velocity.

For hunting this year I am using the 405 grain Beartooth over Varget. I initially loaded it at two velocities, 1700 fps and 1575 fps. Both shoot very well. After some soul searching I decided to go with the 1575 fps load. Mainly, because my doctor told me the 45-70 was torquing all the hardware in my lower back with the heavy loads. In reality, all I will get out of the faster load is more recoil and a little flatter trajectory. The 45-70 is my short range woods rifle. I think I have never fired it at a deer or a hog at over 75 yards. Just can't see very far in there.

 

Ya, and something that has some powder capacity, if for nothing more then keeping the economy alive! :flute: :flute:

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

 

Wanted to follow up on the 250 gr monoflex. Finally got to the range and tested some loads. Best group had all 5 touching @100yds behind a modest load of H4198. That's probably the load I'll use for deer. Didn't kick too bad and I was impressed how accurate the 1895SBL was with all the loads I tested.

 

How many grains for the 250 mono flex?

 

My hand loads for my 45/70. Hodgdon 322 powder. 52.4 grains. CCI 200 primer. Hornady brass once fired. One loaded with the hornady 325 FTX. And One loaded with the hornady 250 monoflex. 65 yards. Both loaded with the same powder charge. Muzzle velocity for the 325 was 1865 FPS. Muzzle velocity for the 250 was 1861. I could not ask for a better load for whitetail deer typical inside of 60 yards. #hornady325ftx

 

Both the 250gr Monoflex and the 325gr FTX will do the job on whitetail.

I use H322 powder for all of my 45-70 loads including for these two bullets.

I don't load the monoflex anymore but thats due to I can't find them up here in BC Canada.

Also I never load either of these bullets for my Marlin 1895 only shoot them in my single shot T/C Contenders and Prohunter

 

My typical range is from 30 to 60 yards.With the 1865 and 1861 fps MV will I be blowing up meat? Or should I lighten the load a little more?