Single shots yup but its a pain in levers. Canand have done but a pain.

 

If you load the blackpowder into cartridges, the residue is almost entirely contained in the barrel. There are precautions one can take after shooting that will minimize the corrosion until the rifle can be completely cleaned. I know of one guy that shoots black powder Cowboy Action and he carries a spray bottle of a solution of dish washing liquid and something else (vinegar?) that he sprays into the barrel at the end of the match. Then he goes home and does a complete clean.

My Pennsylvania style muzzle loader is still pristine after almost 20 years. I haven't used it a lot, but I have used it. And cleaned it, and kept it oiled. But I admit, it's a lot of work to shoot. Still, there's something about the smell of that black powder.

 

I own and shoot flintlocks and traditional percussion (with BP) and a modern inline (with both BP and Pyrodex). For the past year, I've owned a Model 1895 and reloading equipment. Even though BP is the traditional propellant for the .45-70, I've resisted the urge, even though I've been loading and shooting 405-grain cast bullets, to use BP. Why? 'Cause it's so damn dirty! :argh:

 

Black power is dirty. I prefer to stick with the simulated black power that companies like Black Hills uses. Winchester Super X uses modern power and is fun for a shot or two at dusk due to the 3 foot flame coming out of the muzzle but only for a couple. The stuff just kicks to darn much!

 

I have loaded and shot about 800 rounds of .45-70 black powder loads each year for about 20 years now, but all in my big single shots. There it makes sense and works better than smokeless ever could. It is also required in most matches I shoot. Those rifles, Sharps and Hepburn, are very easy to clean and take just a few minutes at the end of the day. I find a good beer or two makes the cleaning go better. Also the fact that I wipe between shots helps I suppose.

I have never had the urge to use black in my 1895, just don't want the hassle of having to clean after even one shot. However, a beer or two at the end of day are still helpful whether or not I clean my rifle.

I have shot many black powder loads in my Uberti 1860 Henry .44-40, there it was never a problem and made sense (not a very strong action).

I'm sure I have shot thousands of rounds through various muzzle loaders over the past 25 years. Pretty much required there too.

Black has it's place no doubt and if done correctly it's really not a problem. You simply must use good fouling control and clean and oil at the end of the day each and every day. If you can clean breech to muzzle there is little if any fouling that gets into the action. A careful wiping and oiling will get you by on a lever gun until you have time for a more thorough cleaning. That's where the big single shots have an advantage, drop or pull the block, run 3-4 wet patches thru breech to muzzle, dry, then run a couple oiled patches thru and the bore is good. Wipe the receiver with an oily patch and don't forget the muzzle/crown and your pretty much done.

You have to understand and appreciate black powder for what it is. I like it, some don't.

 

I have loaded and shot about 800 rounds of .45-70 black powder loads each year for about 20 years now, but all in my big single shots. There it makes sense and works better than smokeless ever could. It is also required in most matches I shoot. Those rifles, Sharps and Hepburn, are very easy to clean and take just a few minutes at the end of the day. I find a good beer or two makes the cleaning go better. Also the fact that I wipe between shots helps I suppose.

What type of beer do you use for cleaning BP? Is a stout better or an IPA? Do you cork the barrel and fill it up with the beer or just put some on a patch and run it through?

Just kidding...

I find that, so long as there are no power tools or loaded fire arms involved, a good beer makes many tasks more enjoyable.

 

About 90% of my shooting is with single shot rifles, paper patched lead bullet's, and Black Powder.

Cleaning the rifle is not that difficult. But I find washing out the Black Powder residue from the brass cartridge cases to being a tiring chore. If not cleaned out of the case and the primer pocket, the Black Powder residue will weaken the brass and lead to early cases failure.

 

Black Powder is filthy. The cleanest powder to use and easier to clean in BP rifles is "Triple Seven". I use it in my 50cal BP rifle and it's not too bad. With any of them though you have to do a "THOROUGH" cleaning because there is an acid in these powders and if left it is extremely hard on your rifle. I have never used it in my 1895 and have never had the desire to do so. It's bad enough in a muzzle loader.

 

Ray,

I always decap my brass at the end of the day and soak the cases in soapy water until I get home. Once home they are rinsed and then they go into my model B tumbler with a mix of clean soapy water with about a cup of vinegar and a mix of tumbling media for one hour. I drain the water, separate the media and dry the brass in one of several ways depending. They are clean and shiny inside and out, even the primer pockets. Couldn't be easier. I have used the same batch of brass for several years doing it this way, that adds up to many reloadings before I ever consider replacing them.

My old Sharps, which my son is mostly shooting now, has over 8,000 rounds thru it and I've been using the same batch of brass for the past 8 years. This is only the 3rd batch of brass I've had for that rifle and they will go for many more years I'm sure. I don't believe in over working my brass, especially with black powder and my single shots. My brass never see a sizing die once they are dire formed and I flare the mouths very little if any. I may put a very slight crimp on them just for handling purposes, but I'd rather not if I don't have to. While I shoot only paper patched bullets for long range matches, my son shoots grease grooved. I don't treat one any different than the other as far as brass goes.

You don't need to put a lot of time in to cleanup with black powder, you just NEED to do it.

 

For BP cleaning i use windshield wiper fluid (for winter use, then it contains up to 50% alcohol) and a boresnake.
Its way easy, dip the front 1/4 part of the snake in the fluid and shake the excess of and pull throuth the lever rifle a couple of times. Then an oiled patch and you're done.
Been doing that for years and no ill effects.

 

Wow, say chickenthief, I shoot blackpowder through an in line and I have never been able to clean it that easily. Just curious after you do the above described bore snake drill have you ever run clean, white dry patches through the barrell just to confirm the wffectiveness.of your soaked bore snake procedure? Again always interested in a better way to skin the cat.

 

I only use Blackhorn 209 in my muzzy. Does not absorb moisture, and cleans up easy.

 

I have used, and still do to some extent, 777 in my "BP" cartridges-- .45 Colt and 45-70. But my favorite is Alliant Black MZ. It is cleaner than 777 and I have better velocity consistancy with it. Cleans up very easy. I generally run a Windex patch down the barrel about every 10-20 shots followed by a couple dry ones. And just so that it doesn't look like I've gotten off topic, I should mention that I DON'T shoot these in my 1895-- only thru period reproductions. I have gotten as low as 4 fps stand. dev. in some batches. Your results may vary.

Tim

 

fs,

For me it's a stout or a good porter, an IPA just won't due the job, YMMV.

And, YES, the beer is only applied after the shooting is done for the day and no driving is to follow.

It actually takes me less time to clean my Hepburn than the time I've seen many high power shooters taking to clean their match rifles. Again, cleanup is no big deal if you do it right and there are many "right" ways to skin that cat.

DT

 

Distant Thunder: I recap and re-size my cases when I return from the range, then wash with a test tube brush wetted with a dishwashing detergent containing Oxyclean. If there is a large batch, they go right into the Thumbler's Tumbler with ceramic media. If not, the cases are put on the case drying board to dry as sometimes I only shoot 30 rounds, sometimes 50 or more.

Does not surprise me that you brass has lasted so long. Good brass and maintenance of it is key. Found that periodic annealing and same day washing, especially the primer pockets, goes a long way to keep the brass shooting.

For some reason, I find washing cases to be a chore, but not so cutting or applying of paper patches.

 

I've been shooting and cleaning black powder cartridge guns for a very long time. As Distant Thunder and others have noted, it is not particularly onerous, BUT it must be done. Cartridge guns are much easier to clean than muzzleloaders. They are even easier if you use a gun vise to hold them upside down so the gunk falls out of the gun instead of into it. I've used plain soap and water, windshield washer fluid and various nostrums peddled as black powder cleaning solutions with good results. Black powder burns cleaner when you have sufficient compression in cartridges. Can't say anything about the substitutes as I don't use any of them. Their ONLY attribute, as far as I can see, is availability. They are regulated like smokeless propellants and thus the mass retailers will stock them. REAL black powder requires the seller to jump through arcane regulatory hoops which most gun stores are unwilling to do.

 

I have been shooting black powder a long time myself, almost entirely flintlocks, and a couple percussion guns. I've used everything from water, hot or cold, to home brews of all sorts. What has worked the best for me is Ballistol. I mix a little with water and flush the barrel, then I take a jag and patches, alternating wet and dry, and it's done in short order. I have not had a barrel rust, inside or out, using this stuff. I think in would work on a cartridge gun just as well, probably clean the action pretty good too. I don't care much for the substitute powders, I'm sure they work well, just not my choice.

 

Ray,

Most BPCR shooters complain that paper patching is too time consuming and tedious, but I do see it that way. I can cut 130 patches in about a half hour + a bit and that will do for a two day match. Patching takes me more time than probably it needs to mostly because I really not trying to hurry it along. I thoroughly enjoy the process. Also, I patch dry, choosing not to wet my patches to wrap them and that seems a but slower. For me dry patching is just more accurate and that is my goal and the main reason I shoot paper patched bullets. Well, there is the "COOL" factor. Even the lowly.45-70 looks more impressive with a big paper patched bullet hanging waaaaay out there. Also I don't particularly like cleaning lead from barrels, with paper patched bullets leading is not an issue. At least not in my single shots, I haven't been as successful in my 1895.

Then too, the .45-70 has what I consider to be the perfect powder capacity when using paper patched bullets. I load 83.0 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss which gives me about 1285 fps and is just about right of 1000 yard shooting. I find over about 1350 too be unnecessary fast just adding to the recoil. I probably should step it up to 85.0 grains to get to that magic 1300 fps. I'll do that this spring I think.

I always tell people that I enjoy the whole process of loading and shooting black powder cartridges. Most will complain about one or more of the labor intense steps, but I see it as a journey, from the cast a bullet to the impact on the target and I enjoy the entire thing. I do try to keep each step as simple as possible, doing nothing that isn't necessary to put that bullet through the center of the target or at least as close to center as possible.

I only wish I was better at reading the conditions! I just keep working at it and enjoying those times when I get it right, few though they may be. If it didn't challenge me I would probably have given it up years ago. It's almost like a gambling addiction, I always think I'm going hit it big on the next pull of the trigger! I must say though, on the few occasions when I have shot well it is a very, very satisfying feeling. Paper patching is the icing on the cake. I do enjoy beating the greasers with my wrapped bullets! :biggrin:

 

not to change the subject, but doesn't trail boss do alot that black powder does? i'm just curious.

 

A Duplex load solves the clean up and fouling issues; yet still "smoke" like straight Black Powder..