[rimrock]

Remington is nothing more than the black news of Cerburus in white falsity of Freedom Group. Only way Marlin will return to a premium brand is total new ownership, not a single one of them having grown up in Cerburus or freedom or remington outdoors--when I win the lottery--oh, that's just a dream.

 

[JACKTW]

Mike338, I just reread your post and decided, whew, I'll respond as below to keep it all straight. Actually, I look at your reply as an opportunity to voice a lot of what I've been wanting to state for some time. So it's nothing personal.

I know quite well the impact a new CEO can have however when a CEO is hamstrung by an owner who is using proceeds from one venture to hold up another, the best CEO cannot buck that headwind.

A good CEO can definitely have a positive impact. However, unless you have direct knowledge of the remainder of your statement then how would one know how proceeds are being used to hold up another?
I find this speculative at best and more than likely unfounded. The owner is a board of directors (BoD) who have stock holders and are held accountable. I'm fairly dammed certain that any CFO wouldn't touch what you are suggesting without wishing to face criminal charges for cheating stock holders out of their due gains.

I'm fairly sure that a CEO of any grade comprehends the notion of quality assurance however Marlin has for years, dumped defective products on the public and it isn't like they didn't know about it.

Yep, I bet the BoD did know about it and is in large part the reason behind firing their first CEO.

Negligence such as that comes from pressure from very high up.

Not necessarily. CEO's have huge opportunities of bonuses for meeting certain numbers and probably padded performance to garner bonuses. The BoD wouldn't necessarily realize what was happening until later or suffice to say, after the fact when sufficient data became available. I highly suspect that is precisely what happened and the CEO consequently was axed.

My guess is that Marlin had cost objectives set for them and the only way to achieve the objectives was to cut corners.

Every company has COGS objectives. There are no exceptions as businesses exist to make profits. That said, I defer you to the aforementioned answer. In the early running the CEO quite possibly turned in what appeared to be great COGS and garnered himself some fat bonuses. However, as always, numbers always catch up to you soon or later.

Further, many might say the BoD could have pressured the CEO for the result they wanted leading to cutting corners as you mentioned. Any board member worth their salt knows what goes around comes around. This is their money at stake as well as their reputation and I know not one board member I have worked with over the past ten years who would gamble their money on a losing bet. And cutting corners always produces a losing bet.

I generally am very willing to give people the benefit of the doubt but these guys are simply unscrupulous and will need to put perfect products into customers hands for years before I go near them.

Well, they fired their first CEO and then hired a CEO with a reputation of fixing companies. What does that tell you? It tells me they care to right their ship. And when a ship is running in good shape profits happen, investments saved, dividends paid, their investors are happy. Opportunities then exist for other ventures. Fail to do so produces disaster and bankruptcy.

The new CEO inherited a company that's shown nothing but disrespect to it's customers and parented by a company that's shown nothing but disrespect for their customers so that's the hill he has to climb.

I'd have to argue that the first CEO showed nothing but disrespect to Marlin customers by arrogantly giving a misguided directive that anyone can build a (simple) lever rifle. Gamed the action to line his pockets and then it all blew up in his face. The BoD responded as stated above.

I have one of their new 338 MXLR's that has been back to the factory twice and to two different gunsmiths and it's still unreliable.

I can't argue a damn thing here. Even my gunsmith has a large sign hanging in his shop that states something to the order of: We refuse to work on any Freedom Group Firearm.

Again, I refer to the aforementioned as to why. Honestly, the BoD should have closer reins on their first CEO but still could have been gamed long enough to not see it until their epiphany moment. By then the damage had been done and their companies and reputation in a deep hole, as your narratives indicate, consequently, a long haul to restore customer confidence.

Soooooo, so far what I'm hearing is that the new CEO has halted the production of known junk rifles and the new ones will get a look. Well, I guess that sounds O.K. but considering where the message is coming from, I believe I'll adopt a cautionary posture.

I too remain cautionary on what was conveyed to me. I'm the messenger here, nothing more. Yet, my contacts voice inflection held possibly more information than just his message. He was elated over what the new CEO is doing and trust me, my contact deeply cares as his is a Marlin fanatic like we are. He is excited and stated the obvious, it's about time we get someone who holds every Marlin produced accountable to higher standards of quality. And it was his excitement that made me think we may just have a CEO that will turn things around.

Time will tell.

Jack

 

[XMAN]

:hmmmm: I don't know what to say about the the future of the 338ME. No do I have a in with Remington/Marlin.
What I do have is a marlin 338MXLR with quite a few factory rounds (a little over half a case) and 400 pieces of brand of brand new brass. Oh and 200 more on the way.
All this talk about the demise of the 338ME has got me a bit paranoid:vollkommenauf: So not only have I been stocking up on brass but I've also been playing with combinations that some don't even think about trying or think is impossible like my 230gr load at 2400fps (safely!!!) that some thought was impossible.
So I wish Marlin gets back on the Marlin Express train but until then I'm going to keep stocking up on my 338 brass and keep looking for different bullet combinations. Since I'm not totally convinced by that Hornady FTX (but I still keep a few hundred around).

 

[MidBigWest]

What is their fiscal calendar dates? a 4th quarter 2015 could put it next year into summer before being released.

 

[JACKTW]

MBW, forth quarter 2015.

XMAN, no worries of Hornady orphaning you/us on the 338ME or 308ME. Hornady has never done that and they have assured me several times they never will. Regardless of the fate of the ME rifles.

That said, I believe Marlin's intention to reintroduce the Marlin Express rifles, they just wish to increase their product quality and the new CEO is demonstrating this with his focus directive. Let's hope he is successful in getting it done.

Jack

 

[Dunerider]

Hi Jack, like many others I want to thanks you for the feedback but also want to thanks you for been a representative/ambassador at Marlin for us on this forum. It's great to know you have a contact that can clear all the rumers!!

where there is hope there is life.... One day I will hold a 338mx in my hands

 

[JACKTW]

Dunerider, thanks for the sentiments. I sincerely hope you'll get your hands on a 338MX. They are a powerhouse lever rifle and man do they hit hard.

I'll never sell mine.

Jack

 

[Ret_Eng]

:hmmmm: I don't know what to say about the the future of the 338ME. No do I have a in with Remington/Marlin.
What I do have is a marlin 338MXLR with quite a few factory rounds (a little over half a case) and 400 pieces of brand of brand new brass. Oh and 200 more on the way.
All this talk about the demise of the 338ME has got me a bit paranoid:vollkommenauf: So not only have I been stocking up on brass but I've also been playing with combinations that some don't even think about trying or think is impossible like my 230gr load at 2400fps (safely!!!) that some thought was impossible.
So I wish Marlin gets back on the Marlin Express train but until then I'm going to keep stocking up on my 338 brass and keep looking for different bullet combinations. Since I'm not totally convinced by that Hornady FTX (but I still keep a few hundred around).

I hear ya XMAN! I was lucky that my unfired 338MX came with 5 boxes of factory ammo and I have purchased 4 more--so I should be good to go for brass for awhile. I will also stock up on bullets/powder and continue on with my 338 ME reload tests of Hornady Interlock bullets. I am really hoping that Marlins gets its act together on MX/MXLR rifle production. If Marlin gets back on track with that--hopefully our bullet and powder choices will improve once MX/MXLR rifle demand increases.

 

[Ham]

Glad to hear the the new CEO cares about the Marlin name and doing something with quality control. Old CEO was a numbers guy for sure just wanted to produce as many products as he could looks great from a production stand point but in the end I'm sure it was his death sentence.

 

[racinjason]

thanks for the update Jack

 

[KON]

I have it on very good authority that Remlin has been actually reaching out to some of the former employees from the CT plant. Not only has quality been discussed but also quantity of production. It seems that the "old plant" and the "old machinery" out produced what Remlin is putting out now.QUOTE]

Both of these statements are VERY TRUE.
1) There had been Current and TERMINATED North Haven Marlin Employees( "Production Consultants" ) while North Haven Marlin was in Operation, and after we closed.

2) There were Conference Call Production Meetings between North Haven Marlin and Remington while we were still Operating.
Remington Personnel were astounded, and embarrassed at the fact they were being out produced by DOUBLE & TRIPLE AMOUNTS during the various Operations.

 

[Ret_Eng]

I have it on very good authority that Remlin has been actually reaching out to some of the former employees from the CT plant. Not only has quality been discussed but also quantity of production. It seems that the "old plant" and the "old machinery" out produced what Remlin is putting out now.QUOTE]

Both of these statements are VERY TRUE.
1) There had been Current and TERMINATED North Haven Marlin Employees( "Production Consultants" ) while North Haven Marlin was in Operation, and after we closed.

2) There were Conference Call Production Meetings between North Haven Marlin and Remington while we were still Operating.
Remington Personnel were astounded, and embarrassed at the fact they were being out produced by DOUBLE & TRIPLE AMOUNTS during the various Operations.

KON--if I were an ex-Marlin employee and was brought back in any capacity to consult with Remington--I would be charging them time and a half.

 

[KON]

KON--if I were an ex-Marlin employee and was brought back in any capacity to consult with Remington--I would be charging them time and a half.

They ARE & WERE PAID "REMINGTON CONSULTANTS".
I don't know what amount of cash they got out of the deal.
While I was at North Haven Marlin during the "Transition Period" Year we played "Technical Support" and helped them with every problem they had right up to 3/31/2011.
However, I refused to speak to anyone about going to any of the Remington Plants to fix the "ABORTION" their Upper Management created.

 

[JACKTW]

KON--if I were an ex-Marlin employee and was brought back in any capacity to consult with Remington--I would be charging them time and a half.

Oh, let's not get cheap after all that the North Haven folks endured. Make that double time and a half! :biggrin:

Jack

 

[Ham]

Jack can you ask your friend when 1894 44 mags are going back into production waiting on one from marlin. If I have to wait on my replacement for a couple months I'm good with it as long as it's a quality piece that they ship and will be posting pics of it when it's received. Thank you.....

 

[miatakix]

Sounds like encouraging news. I do hope they are able to get quality and consistency back to what it was. If they do I will buy a 338MX and 39A from them sometime in the next 3 or 4 years. In terms of firearms quality I'm not an "early adopter" of relative newcomer manufacturers or in any improvements in a dismal track record and reputation of existing manufacturers, both of which I see as being applicable here (Ilion Marlin production being in no uncertain terms a still relatively new outfit that has no connection whatsoever to the reputation of Connecticut built Marlins). As a safety conscious engineer and scientist I have to hear long term reports of both safety and reliability from a product before they can begin to gain my trust. Trust in this industry is paramount when the quality of the products it produces in terms of metallurgy, fabrication, and dimensional fidelity all go into containing and controlling tens of thousands of pounds per square inch a few inches from one's face, brain, eyes, and ears. Things like fit and finish and reliability as I've been harping on over the years are important in their own right, but to me they are mostly an outward sign of inner quality, pride of craftsmanship, and skilled design and execution that is worthy of trust.

When I first got into Marlins, Marlin was one of the most proven and trustworthy brands out there. I have seen some improvements in their products lately but they still have a lot of sustained work to do before they get back to anywhere near what they used to be not too long ago. Reaching out to the North Haven employees and being honest about past mistakes seems indicative of a real desire and hunger to rebuild Marlin production into something great again. As one who reveres the Marlin designs I long to see them suceed in doing this. The first rifle I bought myself was a new Marlin lever action, and I do hope some day I will have the ability to buy more new Marlins with confidence that I'm getting a great American rifle for a reasonable price.

 

[kdub23]

I've been stocking up on 338MX ammo since the fate of the ME rifles became questionable. I'll continue to pick up a few boxes here and there as time goes on. All I know is that my 338MXLR and its ham-fisted operator are ready to hit the woods in force here in a few months!

 

[JACKTW]

Ham, anyone can call Marlin and ask to speak to someone regarding production. Just be sure to ask them to bring up the current production schedule. I might add that just because a model is listed on the production schedule doesn't necessarily mean it will indeed be produced. The 338ME's have been bumped, postponed, twice before this circumstance. Hopefully it won't get bumped yet again.

That said, my contact is a busy guy so it will be awhile before I speak to him again. Our discussions usually cover a number of topics/issues regarding Marlins. Though, next time I speak with him I'll ask him.

Jack

 

[mrguvna]

my response would be if you have to ask how much pay you cannot afford it. They need the skills and knowledge and should be willing to pay for what they need.

Oh, let's not get cheap after all that the North Haven folks endured. Make that double time and a half! :biggrin:

Jack

 

[RangerPointPrecision]

JACKTW thank you for everything that you do to stay in touch with vendors like Marlin, Hornady, etc. to keep this community informed. I have high hopes that Marlin finally has a capable leader and team in place that will hopefully bring Marlin back to it's glory days. Fingers and toes crossed!

As for all of you on MOF, thank you for the advice, candor and information that all of you take the time to share. I also love to see threads like this where opinions and counter opinions can be shared without devolving into name calling, rudeness, etc. (the opposite of FaceBook). It's truly an honor to get to meet each and every one of you. I've even learned quite a few things from many of you along the way that's help me master my gunsmithing skills. Thanks!

Oh and for those of you "that handload" and have been "waiting patiently" for a 308MX. Do you have an old 336 30-30 sitting around? If so, just a reminder that our Ackley eXtreme conversion duplicates the ballistics of the .308ME cartridge with the more common .30-30. With careful load development, The Marlin 336 can be a legitimate tool for harvesting deer at 300 yards.

Our AX-converted rifle will feed, fire, and/or eject all factory .30-30 cartridges, as well as cartridges fire formed and handloaded in .30-30 Ackley improved brass. Reloads may use any .30-30 bullet in addition to bullets with longer ogives/seated lengths, like the one Hornady sells for use in the 308 Marlin Express cartridge, as well as a number of others, as long as they have tips that are safe for use in tubular magazines. You may not fire factory 308ME cartridges in the AX improved rifle.