Micro-groove rifling, GC or plated bullets are the best options and keep velocities below 1,600 fps. With Ballard rifling bullet size, alloy BHN, and pressure are the keys for plain base bullets. I pan lube with a mix of bees wax, coconut oil, and just enough Lee Alox to change the color regardless of GC or plain base bullet design.

I shoot 30-30 and '06 GC bullets at the low end of jacketed load data through Ballard rifling without issue. As an example in 30-06 with 210 gr GC, 2,200 fps.

If you cast your own, see the attached link for guidance on alloy BHN and pressure limits in the last link at the bottom. If you buy retail, check out the offerings by GT Bullets. Their alloy is what I use in my pot and have found to be the best, Electrotype 3% Tin -3 Antimony - 94% Lead. The alloy starts at around 12 BHN and age hardens in short order to around 15-16 BHN.

BTW: The Hodgdon, IMR, Winchester link just added Accurate powder data!


load-data-and-reference-links.628262

 

I have not tried powder coating, but have quite some experience with cast lead bullets.

It might seem more like an art than a science, but FWIW I lube my cast bullets with 50% bees wax and 50% moly grease through a lube sizer. I can't take credit for this 'recipe' it comes from Glen Fryxell (If you google the name you will find quite a bit of information from him online. He is a scientist of some kind and a very knowledgeable man.)

I only use plain based bullets when I'm keeping my velocities below 1200fps. That may be a bit conservative but I gas check anything above this. I hate the chore of cleaning excessive leading from barrels.

Finally to bullet alloys. I agree with PoopDeckPappy that a reasonable recipe is 94% 'ish lead with the balance of tin. Fortunately, Australia has a good cheap supply of Pewter by way of tourists that visit near Asian countries and purchase cheap pewter cups that invariably end up in Opportunity Shops and can be purchased for a few dollars. (Pewter is about 95% tin with some other metals to make it a bit harder, so is perfect to add to the lead. Pewter does not contain zinc, which is a very good thing - Zinc ruins bullet alloys).

You could write volumes on the subject of bullet casting. In fact the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is a good place to start, followed by Richard Lee's 'Modern Reloading'. You can also source 'A Beginners Guide to Bullet Casting' free on line.

 

I’m currently not casting my own, just buying retail from where I can find them. I definitely should’ve mentioned that. The options I looked at currently are lubed

 

You didn't say if you are a bullet caster -- from reading your post I'm assuming not. You have raised valid questions. I shoot cast bullets but do not cast, and am no expert. I shoot a Classic Model 1895 and an 1894C in .357. What I have done is use Cast Performance bullets and Montana bullets. They both are lubed (lube on the Montana's is more visible) and they both are gas checked. I push them both faster than 1,600 fps so the accepted knowledge is that they must be gas checked. Well, they are, but would using a gas-checked bullet be detrimental if only driven at 1,300 fps? Not that I know of. The Cast Performance bullets come sized at .458 and they are accurate in my rifle. With Montana Bullets, the size can be specified, and their .357 Mag bullets sized at .358 work great in my rifle. Perhaps I could "do better" if I did further investigation (checked v. non-checked, powder coating, etc.), but I"m getting 1.5" groups at 75 yards with the 1894 and the same at 100 yards with the 1895. Like you I'm a deer hunter and not a precision shooter so that's good enough for me and I'm killin' deer with both rifles out to those ranges (and sometimes beyond).

 

I've been using HSM hard cast bullets in my 45-70 (as well as in other calibers) and have had good luck with them. Accuracy seems to be reasonable and no leading. I did buy some powder coated 405's for the 45-70, but haven't tried them yet. I can't remember the brand off hand. The only other powder coated bullets I've used are 200 gr RNFP in 45 Colt. No issues with those.

 

Folks seem to have a lot of opinions posted as fact.
I guess I'm no different.
I have heard that 1500 fps and under no gas check are required.
I've heard that if the mold calls for a GC you should install it lest the bullet shoot badly.
FWIW, I shoot a GC bullet without and with and I see no difference,
If you have microgroove you can assume the bullet needs to be about .002 to .003 larger than the bore size.
It's best to slug the barrel so you know what that is precisely.
I have a lube sizer but I also pan lube and sometimes use Liquid ALOX with mica powder, and now I powder coat.
I love that powder coat! Mine stays put even after resizing.
I have heard that PC bullets should be sized like jacketed since the plastic acts like a jacket.
Oversize PC shoots just fine. That plastic still gives a bit.
Do I have a preference? Well, after the lubesizer warms up it's just like any machine and it cranks out fine bullets that shoot great. Ditto for pan lubing with Wind's Wonder Wax or whatever recipe you go for.
Alox and mica are likely the biggest PITA since you need to lube and let dry - twice.
The powder coat is shake-n-bake. I only like to have them stand up on non-stick aluminum foil so they come out smooth. That takes time, patience, and a steady hand.
Some folks lay them on a screen but I hate that rough side and how it looks.
So there's my 2 centavos - worth less than 2 cents.

 

Folks seem to have a lot of opinions posted as fact.
I guess I'm no different.
I have heard that 1500 fps and under no gas check required.
I've heard that if the mold calls for a GC you should install it lest the bullet shoot badly.
FWIW I shoot a GC bullet without and with and I see no difference,
If you have microgroove you can assume the bullet needs to be about .002 to .003 larger than bore size.
Best to slug the barrel so you know what that is precisely.
I have a lube sizer but I also pan lube, and sometimes use Liquid ALOX with mica powder, and now I powder coat.
Love that powder coat! Mine stays put even after resizing.
I have heard that PC bullets should be sized like jacketed since the plastic acts like a jacket.
Oversize PC shoots just fine. That plastic still gives a bit.
Do I have a preference? Well, after the lubesizer warms up it's just like any machine and it cranks out fine bullets that shoot great. Ditto for pan lubing with Wind's Wonder Wax or whatever recipe you go for.
Alox and mica is likely teh biggest PITA since you need to lube and let dry - twice.
Powder coat is shake-n-bake. Only thing is I like to have them stand up on non-stick aluminum foil so they come out smooth. That takes time, patience and a steady hand.
Some folks lay them on a screen but I hate that rough side and how it looks.
So there's my 2 centavos - worth less than 2 cents.

The bullets I am looking to buy don’t have the groove for GCs but they’re already lubed. So I’m guessing I’d be safe just loading and shooting.
The .444 and .45-70 are .430 and .458, the bullets I currently have for the .375/.38-55 measure .377 and .379 but my .38-55 is Ballard rifling

 

Gas checked bullets are cheap insurance against leading. Powder coated bullets generally do not lead provided you don't damage the coating when loading. Personally I prefer gas checked and lubed if given the option; IE, if I were buying bullets and the cost was the same, I'd get gas checked bullets.

Plain based bullets can and will work just fine as long as the alloy, the lube, and the pressure are balanced. Too soft or too hard an alloy and they will lead. Poor quality lube, or not enough lube will cause leading. Too low or high a pressure for the alloy will cause leading. If you're buying commercial, get about 12 BHN and they should work at starting loads up to full pressure loads in 444 Marlin, 45-70 Government, and 38-55 Ballard/Winchester.

I use a 31141 cast of wheel weights with 2%Sn, gas checked, 50/50 White Label lube in my 30-30 and I run it full pressure and velocity. I also the RCBS 38-150-SWC which is plain based from the same alloy and use the same lube, but I push it full pressure and velocity out of 357 Magnum handgun using W296 powder. In the latter instance, the alloy/lube/pressure is right at the balance and it shoots perfectly clean, even when other loads lead.

I'd avoid bevel based bullets and bullets harder than 12 BHN for your application.

 

I only buy commercial cast bullets for plinking or small game. For that use generally cheaper ones. As you are using a large bore, the typical hard cast might work. You can always get a bottle of Lee Liquid Alox to avoid leading. I coat my cast bullets with the stuff and even some purchased ones. All you have to do is put a few drops in a container and roll them around in it and take them out to let dry.
Almost as good as a gas check.
My experience is with normal ĺubed bullets. I have not tried powder. My Marlins are Ballard rifled except for one. I have not cast for MG.

DEP

 

I have never gotten good accuracy with plain base bullets running faster than 1100-1200 fps. Good gas check bullets in the 444 and 45-70 make 2000-2100 without problems. In my 444, I use .432 diameter - the smaller .429 diameter can lead to leading and are not usually very accurate. I would try .430 and then try bigger. My 1895 45-70 shoots .460 diameter very well, just OK with .459, .458 lead bullets leave lead in the barrel. Bullet fit is critical when using cast bullets. With good bullet fit, 1.5" groups are possible with the 444 at 100 yards. Again plain base bullets do not do well above 1200 fps. Gas checked properly fitted and lubed bullets work very well in the 444, 45-70. I have not yet tried powder coated bullets in my rifles.

 

If you understand how to make the bullet fit the barrel Microgroove barrels do not have a “velocity limitation” any more so than standard rifling.

If you can quantify how such barrels are dimensioned you can make them shoot at 2K fps easily.

Plainbase bullets are not suited for full power loads and the faster you push them past relatively mild velocities the worse they will shoot.

 

I don't cast my own. I purchase what I need from Oregon Trail Bullets. I've experienced no leading issues with the company's 30-30 .309dia 170gr.RNFP GC. or .45LC 452dia. RNFP 250GR. PB. they even sell sample packs of their bullets by the pound.

Old Creek

 

Does anyone have experience with the Lyman 457122 "Goulds Express" bullet in a 45/70 with ballard rifling? I would appreciate any observations.

 

Used them in a single shot with black powder using a 20-1 alloy. Killed deer.
The hollow point is designed around standard velocity loads. I made another pin for mine for hotter loads that was not quite so dramatic.
Some claim that if pushed to fast the bullets lack penetration.

DEP

 

For plinking, any old bullet that fits properly (1 to 2 thousand over groove diameter) pushed up to 1400 to 1500fps should be fine.

Hunting, you can still use the non gas checked bullets but you will limit you distance because of fps. I would use a gas checked bullet for hunting and run the fps up to where you can manage it. Powder coat or lube doesn't matter. I used to lube and now powder coat but may still lube some.

With cast bullets fit is king more then anything else.

 

Leading is caused by gas cutting. One theory is that undersized bullets will lead due to that and a properly fit oversize may not even need lube. Might br a bit extreme but one of the reasons I think the coated bullets work, like the Lee Alox I use is that they increase the diameter a bit. I use a mold ment for use in a 308 barrel for my 32 20. As cast which is how it's used, it barely makes 311. But it works with no leading. Used a 200 grain 308 designed bullet in a 303 British and it worked with the Alox. It was driven close to 2000 fps and did not lead. Gaschecks were also used.

DEP

 

PC is a polymer jacket, and not a replacement for lubricant. You're still subject to the pressure limitations of your alloy, and depending on how much pressure (velocity) you're going to put on that bullet, you may or may not need a gas check. You could push a plain base bullet at 2500fps if you only put 10,000lbs of pressure on it, but that's impossible at least for now. People often confuse velocity/with pressure.

I powdercoated for a few years, but eventually gave it up, as for me, it was just easier/faster to run a lubrisizer. I generally recommend most people, especially new casters take up powdercoating immediately. The initial results will be much better, and more enjoyable. The precision will be almost as good as a properly lubrisized and fitted bullet, without any of the fuss or mess. I've been on my hands and knee's for a solid month now scraping XLOX 2500+ off the floor of my office and my wife is not happy. Of course she wasn't happy with the powdercoat dust on the kitchen counter either. YMMV.

 

I use powder coated bullets in my 1911 target pistol. When the other 4 guys also use powder coated you can still see the target on the indoor range after 5 rounds of timed or rapid. 😁😊 They seem to shoot the same and I have not been struck by lightning or voted Demoncrat since I started using them.
I have not noticed a trace of PC in my barrel either. Probably around 750 FPS though.

 

When I was powdercoating, I noticed slightly higher velocities, no doubt due to the higher start pressure and higher friction from the jacket. Are you saying yours are moving slower then the same load with a standard lubed bullet?

 

Looking at some cast boolits options since most my marlins are micro-grooved, and the more I learn the less I know. I have a 444, 45-70, 375, and a 38-55...

caster or not, here you can find some fast & precious info (pag.1) about the relevance of the right bullet fit...

http://www.lasc.us/Kelter_Cast_Bullet_Alloys.pdf

 

As for cast bullets I've run the gamut over the last 45 years. Long story short I started powder coating 6-7 years ago, it was a game changer. I used to do the alloy's and sticky, waxy lubes, no more. I have been shooting scrap lead in my Henry Big Boy 357 and found with the powder coating, even using soft lead 158's (water quenched) I have exceeded 1700 fps in my 20" All Weather without any leading. Just a quick brush and a couple swabs and the bore is clean. Shooting anything lighter push velocity's over 2000 fps so 125's get a homemade, plain base gas check punched out of aluminum flashing just to be safe. Shoots like a laser beam with no recoil. All loads were very accurate and the process is very easy.