Here is a copy of my BDT Max.

firstshot
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Make your first shot count!

 

I have been looking at posted Black Death Targets for a few years now and frankly, I've seen only a few that really would have scored as a success. Just because there is a strip of white left does not mean that the bullet did not cut the black. Anybody who has shot in target competition knows that what looks like a miss could get bumped to the next higher scoring ring when the proper plug gage is used to mark the hole.

You BDT guys ought to figure out a better system such as five identical bulls for each size, requiring a single shot in each. If you did that then an (inexpensive) NRA .22 scoring plug could be used to judge the veracity of the hit. If you can put 5 shots in a half inch -truly- then you can put one shot each in five, 1/2 inch targets, don't you think?? Just thinking out loud here.... ~Andrew

 

I have been looking at posted Black Death Targets for a few years now and frankly, I've seen only a few that really would have scored as a success. Just because there is a strip of white left does not mean that the bullet did not cut the black.

I think you are missing the point of the BDT Andrew. It is not a benchrest competition. The way I see it, it is a way for squirrel/small game hunters to improve their shooting- the only thing won is bragging rights, and nothing more. Remember that there is no rear bag allowed in this little game...

I disagree with the idea that white left on the target means cutting black- I shot mine with the target up on a sheet of 3/4" plywood. Your scoring plug would fall through a single hole shot in this manner-due to bullet expansion.

Just some random thoughts from a guy who's done it...

Regards,

Doc Sharptail

 

Doc: I'm just reading the rules of the BDT. AS quoted here, "Any shot that cuts the black background surrounding the white circles voids the entire target." The operative word is "cuts". I take this to mean that every shot must stay entirely inside the white; not just visually appear to do so. The fact that a shot cutting the black will still leave a bit of white paper is not an idle idea of mine -it is a common occurrance in small bore target competition. Take it from someone who's done it.

I am all for fun shooting and tolerance in scoring but when you start talking about who holds what "record" in BDT, is begins to sound like something more than a can plinking fest. When a target is posted showing a max on the BDT the shooter is saying that none of his shots touched the black. If it's "close enough counts" then that's fine with me, but if you really want to get technical about it, I'd have to say that I've witnessed a few posted targets that wouldn't pass the scoring plug test. I'm not tossing rocks here, just making an observation. ~Andrew

 

****Shrugs****

I tell you it ain't a bench-rest competition and you want to throw a bench-rest measuring device at it. Not a lot left to be said there-cept we ain't on the same page... BUT , that's besides the point.

To my way of thinking, cutting black means the bullet cutting through the black, with the target pasted on a proper target board.... I could have maxxed this thing two years ago on a cardboard box- but dirty pool to my way of thinking- smaller holes, no?

I'd like to see what the BDT's creator would say on the subject...

Regards,

Doc Sharptail

 

Doc: It aint a bench rest measuring device. It can't be used for bench rest scoring. It's used in all forms of 22 competition where a target with scoring rings is utilized: Off hand, prone, etc. It's simply used to see if the bullet touched the next higher scoring ring. In the BDT it would verify that the bullet didn't touch the black, that's all. That is the whole object of the game, right? to absolutely not touch the black?

I'm not trying to be anal about this, I was just observing that from a competitive rimfire shooters eye, a few of the BDT "winners" would have been disqualified. It was just an observation. Separate bulls would ease scoring, that's all I'm saying. Personally I don't care one way or the other. Hell, I don't even shoot BDT. Too hard for me.~Andrew

 

The problem I have had is that I shoot by my self 99.99% of the time. I shoot at least once a week and usually several times per week. My buddy and I have us a little range set up next to his pond, I actually use it way more than he does. I dont have a range officer or witness to varify my score. And I dont need one. There is a thing called honor, and you either have it or you dont. I have a few of those targets in my pile with 5 shots in the 1/2 inch target, matter of fact I even made me up my own target with about 20 of those on one page to shoot at for the heck of it. If a guy is gonna cheat he is gonna cheat, he can have someone sign his target that didnt see it. I have not sent one in because I wont ask someone to "witness" and sign my target, that they didnt see. I can sleep at night just knowing, that I can do it, and that is good enough for me.

Ranch Dogs postal match for centerfire lever only guns is nice because it is set up on the honor system. Alot of folks dont have the luxery of taking a witness to the range, but they are honest just the same.

Well when I said I shoot by myself most of the time it is not really true, quite often my 5 year old is with me. we go shooting a lot. he is my target , tape, marker, carrier and he even gets to shoot his 22.

 

Just a point of fact here guys. I didn't make up the rules, I just posted them.

Doc Sharptail is absolutely right. The BDT was put together to incourage and challenge squirrel/small game hunters, and the Army guys @ Fort Polk Louisiana, to improve their shooting skills. Its a fun game where the competition is primarilly with yourself.

As far as "cutting" the black is concerned, and since it really is a competition with yourself, thats for each individual to judge for him or herself. That is unless you want to send your target in and get your name on the list, in which case Uncle John (TTG), who invented the game and keeps the list, has the final say and that's good enough for me.

Its a fun game and I'd just assume keep it that way. It is definitely challenging and working to max the BDT will definitely improve your shooting skills just as any serious practice will do. Sure there is a little bit of bragging rights involved, but primarilly the competition is with yourself and the reward is improving your shooting skills and knowing that you've accomplished something.

firstshot
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Make your first shot count!

 

Andrew

These targets were shot the same day. One target was shot with one shot at each bull. The other is 5 shots at each bull. both were shot starting at the top left and working down. I agree that I don't think it makes much difference really if it is one shot per bull or five.

DG

I have been looking at posted Black Death Targets for a few years now and frankly, I've seen only a few that really would have scored as a success. Just because there is a strip of white left does not mean that the bullet did not cut the black. Anybody who has shot in target competition knows that what looks like a miss could get bumped to the next higher scoring ring when the proper plug gage is used to mark the hole.

You BDT guys ought to figure out a better system such as five identical bulls for each size, requiring a single shot in each. If you did that then an (inexpensive) NRA .22 scoring plug could be used to judge the veracity of the hit. If you can put 5 shots in a half inch -truly- then you can put one shot each in five, 1/2 inch targets, don't you think?? Just thinking out loud here.... ~Andrew

 

Firstshot,
I didnt mean it to sound as a put down. It is just that for some of us there is almost no way to get a witness to sign the target. as a matter of fact, I'm heading out tomorrow at first light and will most likely spend most of the morning out shooting. everything from 22 to 45-70. I plan to shoot several targets for RD's postal match and hope to beat my best score. I think there are a good number of shooters that send in targets because of the honor system, they can go out pop a few off and send it in. Mutch easer than finding someone to serve as a witness. I know you didnt make the rules, but it is just a down side that I see to it.

 

Big Medicine

I know what you mean about haveing to have a witness being a pain in the A#$. But that only matters if you plan to send in a target. I had actually maxed several BDT's with no witness. On other occasions when I had either arranged for a witness to be there or there were people at the range shooting at the same time, I couldn't max a BDT to save my life. The one I finally maxed and sent in was witnessed by someone that just happened to be at the range that day shooting 22's as well. I wouldn't know them today if I was to stumble over them....LOL

That postal match is for big bore levers only isn't it? Been thinking about getting a big bore, but if I did it would be either a 45/70 or a 35 Whelen barrel for my Thompson Center.

firstshot
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Make your first shot count!

 

Firstshot,
You NEED a Marlin big bore :lol: Reid has a nice 1895 Cowboy for sale on the cowboy board. A 45-70 is the medicine you need :wink: The problem with the centerfire levers is that one is not enough :shock: You could really max the black death with one of those babies :wink:

 

Hey Big Medicine -

Does a 336 in 44 mag count as a big bore? It's a fairly large diameter, nut only a pistol cartridge. I assume it counts as one, but figured I'd better check first......

Shum8

 

Shum,
Is it used???...... You should fire it up and get a couple targets shot for RD's postal match. A 336 in 44mag is a rare bird, I'd say it is a big bore.

 

RD's match is for any center-fire lever-action rifles/carbines. Bore size is not restricted to big bores. Yes, the .44 magnum qualifies, thats what I shoot.

Like Big Medicine, I mostly shoot by myself. Will try the 25 yard BDT one of these days. I'll have to take some stands to set the target that close, as the range set-up is for 50 meters. I just haven't felt confident enough to try it yet.

 

It doesn't have to be a big bore, just centerfire lever........Right??

 

Any centerfire lever will do.

 

I can understand that the BDT is an individual thing. Bragging rights? Ok, I can go for that, also... With a dollop of tolerance added, too boot. But if a shooter really wanted to know if he or she really maxed the BDT, he'd fire one shot per bull (on the proper backing, Doc) and use a plug gage. It tells no lies. Have fun but "To thine own self, be True", eh? I've said my piece. Have a great Saturday. ~Andrew

 

Andrew

Just one comment and the subject is dropped. It is my opinion and it is just an my opinion, shooting the BDT challange; I think it is easier to shoot one shot into the white on individual targets than shooting 5 rounds into one target. My reasoning is that it is more difficult to sight in on a ragged hole than to sight in on a well defined black dot. I know it doesn't sound like a big deal but at least to me it seems to be easier. Also if you do max the BDT, you will find it is much easier to repeat the process.

I am reminded when I was in the Army, the guys in my outfit had a game they played. The guy that couldn't take a beer can and crimp it with their fingers with each hand and then mash it into a "Z" shape paid for the beer. It took me a long time to finally do it and from then on it was a snap. By the way the cans were made of steel. Aluminum cans didn't exist then. Sounds simple enough. I have seen some really "Big strong" ape like guys that always were good for the beer.

Just my .02 cents

DG

I can understand that the BDT is an individual thing. Bragging rights? Ok, I can go for that, also... With a dollop of tolerance added, too boot. But if a shooter really wanted to know if he or she really maxed the BDT, he'd fire one shot per bull (on the proper backing, Doc) and use a plug gage. It tells no lies. Have fun but "To thine own self, be True", eh? I've said my piece. Have a great Saturday. ~Andrew

 

Some 30 odd years ago, the gunsmith was showing me some targets he shot with a Browning T-2, T-Bolt...

The target was the Canadian 25 yd small bore target- with a well-defined "X" in the center of the bull. All of his 5 shot groups could easily be covered with a dime. All shots landed with-in the broken line "X" ring, which is a bit smaller than a dime...

His secret? Taking out the "X" with his first shot.

I've got a ways to go yet, before I can realize that kind of repeatable consistency. ( I'm coming close though )

I can see the point of using a scoring plug in a match competition to determine a winner. The BDT however, is not a match competition, unless you are competing in a "Top Gun" event.

The idea behind the BDT Challenge is for small game shooters to put their 5 shots into less than 1/2" , into the center bull of the target. All this with a light squirrel class rifle, and no rear bag, remember...

To my way of thinking, competing against one's own self, and in my case, against the wind, is quite enough. If I start shooting this thing with a 10 - 12 lb. target rifle, and a rear bag rest, I'll gladly accept your scoring plug.

Where it stands now is that I know I can do it, and have the proof. And that is the point of the whole idea behind the BDT Squirrel class challenge. It took me 2 years to get the BDT done, but much longer to become the kind of shooter I wanted to be 30 years ago...

Regards,

Doc Sharptail

 

Shum,
Is it used???...... You should fire it up and get a couple targets shot for RD's postal match. A 336 in 44mag is a rare bird, I'd say it is a big bore.

I'll say it's used.......It's a 336-44 magnum my Dad bought in '64, and shot it quite a bit. Several years ago, he gave it to me, and I've shot the snot out of it. Shoots VERY well - by golly I think I will.

Shum8

 

One thing about the BDT and the Top Gun Challenge, it is on the honor sytem and been so for 7 years. yes you can bring out the "plug if you want to" but we don't. If it is so close that it can not be determined "tie goes to the shooter" thats pretty easy.

This may sound strange to some, but in a world of dishonesty I feel this kind of shooting will remain with honor and the leauge masters agree. It brings back a little tradition of the old days. Yes we give away some nice prizes, but after many years of the match its still on the honor system.

With the fine shooters that show up every year, who would want to cheat anyway. I know one thing when I beat that damn Jody Skinner I want it fair and square.

 

My point with the honor system was that having to have a witness makes it near impossible for a lot shooters to do. My 5 year old is the only person that I have gone shooting with in the last couple years. Most times I'm by myself.

 

many shooters have sent me their BDT for scores over the internet, you only have to max it once to hit the record book. many have done it multiple times. when done so we invite you to the top gun challenge rifle match.

right now 85 shooters world wide have maxed the BDT, thats not a lot. It is a great challenge by itself and at top gun it wipesout 80% of the shooters no matter how good they are.

Thats why top gun is so tuff. all the good shooters seriously underestimate it and then it is too late.

I have the latest White Feather record book if someone would like to post it here. now would be a good time. just e-mail me

 

I tried, but couldn't figger how to copy a word document here. Maybe someone more tech savvy will step up...

Regards,

Doc Sharptail