Speer recommends their 350gr Mag-Tip over their thin jacket 400gr. I'm think'n 405gr Woodleigh or 300gr Barnes TSX for a real big bear. ......all book talk here though.

 

If I'm carrying my GBL 400gr Barnes Busters handloaded at 1800 fps. Speer 400gr likely expands huge to limit penetration similar to Remington 405gr I've used. For factory loads some Buffalo Bore products would be my choice.

 

If i went with factory ammo id probably go back to the hsm 430gr bear load, shot pretty well out of my sbl. Never loaded cast and not sure where to start with handloading it

 

I do have some 405gr woodleighs and 405gr cast performance on hand though. I love woodleigh bullets in other calibers, they can just be a pain to find at times

 

If .45-70 factory load Buffalo Bore Dangerous Game 380gr FN mono-metal at 2047 fps (20" barrel 1895).

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=545


Like to also try my .338 WM. Got Buffalo-Barnes 250gr TSX ammo. Chronographed 2700 fps so muzzle speed about 2725 fps from my Benelli R1 autoloader (24" barrel).

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=312

 

Well then, at them prices ................Garrett Cartridges Inc. 44 mag .45-70 .44 ammo ammunition bullets african hunting cartridges

 

Woodleigh 350gr RN handloaded for my .450 Marlin BLR capable of 2300 fps muzzle speed. Could load these in my GBL probably at about 1900 fps.

 

Grizzly makes a nice 405gr @ 2050fps, hard cast flat nose.

 

Load the woodleigh 405 gr it will likely shoot so close to POI with the Speer that you'll be able to use either load as required. The Speer is a great pill I've never shot a moose but I wouldn't doubt it would do the job.

I've seen a large sambar deer shot with 300gr sierras hp's out of a 45/70 and it put the animal down. Th Speer 400gr is harder than that bullet...just but its going slower, the rem 405 is harder than the Speer and the woodleigh 405 expands and hangs together.

 

Experience with Hornady 300gr HP from Ruger No.1 45-70. Impact speed 2200 fps quartering shot went clear thru Bighorn Sheep. Surprisingly stout bullet! On Bighorn Sheep at least. Huge wound volume. But might fragment too much impacting big Bear heavy bone.

In GBL can handload 300gr JHP at about 2100 fps maximum muzzle speed. In other 45's I take hunting: 450 Marlin BLR at 2500 fps, 458 Lott at mild 2600 fps.

 

speer 400 gr jacketed over 53 gr 3031. proven effective for many years, some refer to it as the Elmer Keith load..........

 

I have a good load woth the 400gr speer, just not sure if that bullet is tough enough for moose and grizz?

 

Speer doesn't recommend their 400gr on large Bear -




Agree - not my choice either for big Bear from my experience with similar Remington 405gr FN at about 1600 fps impact speed on big Bull Moose. Quartering shot struck shoulder bone and penetrated just enough to sever spinal chord. Dropped DRT. Total penetration only about 15".

Surprised it didn't fragment much for a thin-jacketed non-bonded core bullet. 363gr or 90% retained weight. Compared to premium bonded core 375 300gr Accubond bullet that fragmented pretty bad on similar shot at about 2300 fps impact speed.

 

Hey Hyak - I’m no grizzly hunter, but, as others have noted, Speer does not recommend their 400-grainer for the great bears, so I’d listen to them. You said you have some Cast Performance 405-grain with gas check. That’s what I’d use if it were me. As you can see from the pic, at least in my particular 1895 Classic, they are quite accurate. That 5-shot group would look better but I pulled one slightly to the right. According to my chrony, the MV out of my 22”-barrel is right at 1,800 fps.

 

I'm hoping to get ahold of the right powder and start load development within the next mo th for the hard cast. That being said, the current speer website says the 400gr is good for all north American game. They may have just changed the wording for marketing though

 

Speer website states 400gr bullet use is target shooting. Agree - pretty good target shooting bullet from my 458 Lott.

https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bullets/rifle-bullets/soft-point-flat-nose-rifle-bullet/2479

 

Speer website states 400gr bullet use is target shooting. . .

Shhhh . . . don't tell that to the deer. I've lost count of the number of whitetails I've dropped with the 400-grain Speer. Longest kiill shot so far was 163 yards.

 

Give 'em a call slamfire and let them know about the mistake, maybe they'll send you a few boxes.

 

I wouldn't consider it a target bullet lol. Doesnt grizzly cart co or hsm use it in one of their hunting loads?

 

Hyak - I have used Barnes Busters on some Big critters with bad dispositions - The 500 grain loading from Buffalo Bore has accounted for 2 Cape Buff's, a Hippo and a Giraffe. The 400's we loaded to meet the POI of the Barnes VorTx 300 gr factory at 100 yds - I haven't killed anything 'Dangerous' with this load but it has accounted for 2 Eland (1500 to 2000 lbs) a Kudu and some wild hogs. This bullet penetrates and creates a narrow consistent wound channel.

 

I've used the Speer 400 grain flat nose since 1980. It has always been my go to bullet even after trying all the 300, 350 and other 400 grain bullets. I live and hunt exclusively in Alaska and would not hesitate to pull the trigger on a big brown furry thing. I load 50 grains of IMR 3031 for a velocity of about 1700 fps. As long as you don't exceed 1900 fps the 400 grainer should work well. I've shot deer and caribou with mine but nothing larger. It's not what I'd pick for my bear hunting gun but with 5 rounds in this rifle and at 25 yards I'd dump one if I had to and never look back. Jim

 

For comparison 45 caliber bonded core bullet performance: 400gr Swift A-Frame semi-spitzer bullets recovered from Elk (fully grown) shot broadside at impact speeds noted. Retained weight 389gr/1400 fps (97%) and 372gr/1800 fps (93%). Both struck bone. Surprised these didn't penetrate clear thru.

Bullets should be chosen suitable for any game encountered.

 

Hornady 350gr RN performance on heavy game 1000 lb Bull Mooses not light game 100 lb Deer. First example 1600 fps impact speed double lung broadside. Moose dropped, got up instantly and charged. Quick brain shot dropped it DRT. Next example 1900 fps impact speed coup de grace - DRT.

Retained weight 270gr/1600 fps (77%) and 257gr/1900 fps (72%). Not bad for non-bonded core bullet. Some idea what to expect at these impact speeds if used on comparable weight but more stoutly built Bear. Seen more decisive results less risk using high speed 40+ calibers.

 

A lot of this discussion is pure speculation. Like jdb3 I've been shooting that Speer 400 grainer since I got my first M1895 in the early 1980's when I too lived in Alaska. Back then my eyes were a little bit younger and I was printing 3 shot 1.5" groups at 100 yards from a bench using 53 grains of IMR-3031, a Williams Receiver sight, and the factory brass bead. I carried that rifle all over the Kenai Peninsula when fishing but never had to use it. Not all Brown Bears are 10 ft. tall and 1500 lbs and those that are, shoot 'em twice. Naturally the one time I did get charged by a medium sized Brownie was at night in the front yard of my house in Sterling. I was armed with a Surefire flashlight and I moved so fast to get through that garage door that the bear lost track of me. Turned out to be a sow with two of that years' model cubs. I shot her in the butt with a 12 gauge cracker shell which dropped to the ground and promptly exploded and that was the last I saw of those three bruins.

BTW, historically that bullet/powder combination was developed by Elmer Keith and his good buddy Vernon Speer for the purpose of self-defense against large, toothy critters long before lawyers started reviewing the Speer Reloading Manual. If that bullet expands and stops within a bear it is going to dump a whole lot of energy doing so.

 

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Speer 400gr FN interesting results:

"...projectile used in the experiment was the Speer 400 grain flat soft point...animals (feral billy goats) were taken with the Speer bullet fired backwards as well as forwards...."

See Mechanisms section near article end -

(Ctrl + click) https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Effective+Game+Killing.html

 

Good article

 

Interesting theory. Explains bang-flops. Enough hydrostatic shock causes extreme blood pressure rise that puts animal into coma. Then bleeds out from wound. And expires.