Do you need a powder which you will also be shooting in revolvers?

Are you shooting cast lead bullets or jacketed, or both?

What is your objective. mostly paper punching or hunting?

#2400 and 4227 are flexible and can be loaded successfully in less than full charges and have a LONG track record.

Mostly small game and varmints or deer and larger?

 

At this point, I'm only killing paper and my self esteem. This is the only rifle I have now, and if I was seriously planning to hunt again, I would most likely get a different rifle that was flatter-shooting and more scope-friendly for chasing pronghorns or mule deer. (Or apply for a moose permit in one of the handgun-only areas in Idaho, and use my Redhawk or my Tanfoglio/EAA Hunter.) But I want to work up a full-power load as a project, and just in case.

I am primarily shooting jacketed bullets. In the .43 Mag and 10 mm I have settled on Nosler as my brand. Haven't narrowed that down yet for the .357.

In the Redhawk, I like the accuracy of 4227, but I don't get the velocity claimed in some data. 2400 gives me better velocity but worse accuracy. H110 is great for both qualities, but I hate loading it. I haven't repeated that comparison yet in the .357 rifle. Basically, since I got it a couple of years ago, I have been ignoring the rifle in favor of my handguns!

I have a lot of Universal and a fair bit of HP-38, so I am covered for plinking and moderate loads in the revolvers. If I get another powder, it would be a rifle-only prospect, which is why I have Lil'Gun. I'm still trying to decide if Lil'Gun works for me. I have not really used it much yet. My assumption is that panic and shortages will return in a few months, so I am trying to get my shopping done early.

 

you have quite a selection - pick the best performer from your inventory and stock up - 2400 was originally a rifle powder and can be quite good in normal rifle calibers....have never used enforcer...

 

All the 2400 you can find - it will cover just about everything. Get enough, and you will be making money after the next post election hoarding spree...

 

I tried fast, medium and slow powders with 158 jacketed (best accuracy). 2400 was far and away the best . This was in a 26" Rossi .

 

I load Hodgdon "Lil'gun" powder with the Hornady 180 gr XTP which is very accurate and Hodgdon "Longshot" with a 180 gr cast bullet. I did just test 8.0 of longshot with the Remington 158 gr hollow point which was also very accurate.

I prefer Hodgdon Longshot powder for light loads in the 1894, much faster than Unique powder. The speed range of Longshot using the Remington 158 gr HP is almost perfect for the speed range the bullet jacket was designed for.

CD

 

My shorter barreled (18.5") Micro-Groove Marlin 1894CS Prefers Lil Gun w/ 158gr XTP-FP, Above All Others.
Also Likes HS-6 w/ Cast Lee 158gr RNFP. Both Loads Are Very Accurate in My Rifle.
Accuracy w/ H-110 was Inconsistent, At Best.
I also use Trail Boss for Low Velocity Target Loads.
UncleSarge58

 

Bullseye and 158 JSP show some promise, all depends on what the rifle likes..

 

Awsome grouping myflatline!

 

The one I had shot well with 125-160gr jacketed using 38sp +P levels of 700X, GreenDot, and Unique in 357 cases.. I'm certain it'd do just as well with other similar powders at similar levels. The best it would do with a 180gr was about 3-4 MOA using a mid level H110/W296 load, but was very finicky about primer brands (all magnum). I sold it before I got to test it with LilGun, but a buddy has one that will shoot 158-160gr jacketed with 14gr of LilGun into 2MOA groups. He hasn't found what he considers an acceptable 180gr or heavier projectile load.... The Rossi has a 1:30" twist so it shows a preference for lighter projectiles than the Marln does with its 1:16" twist.

my .02,

- Tim

 

He hasn't found what he considers an acceptable 180gr or heavier projectile load.... The Rossi has a 1:30" twist so it shows a preference for lighter projectiles than the Marln does with its 1:16" twist.

Good point. I tried a few rounds with 215 grain 358627 bullets (purchased from site below) and they tumbled from the Rossi like a shotgun pattern. Same cartridges shoot nicely from my S&W Model 19. I'd have to check my notes to be sure, but IIRC Keith 358429 bullets shot well enough from the Rossi.

.35/.357/.38 Caliber

Anyway, sounds like I'm on the right powder track. I wanted to be sure there wasn't a secret load for something like AA1680 that works magic in rifles but fails in pistols.

 

AA#9 is very, very consistent with 158 grain bullets and provides high velocity. An example:

357 155/6 grain homecast LSWC, WSP primers, once-fired 1980s Federal cases - 13.5 grains of AA#9 - 1622 fps, ev 1599-1662.

 

I'm another AA#9 fan for both .357 mag and .44 mag loads for the Rossi lever guns. My late mentor got me started with A2400 and Unique as the basic powders to keep on hand, but I've really grown fond of the AA powders for my handgun cartridge loads.


jd

 

I use AA#9 and Li'lgun for full power 357 magnum loads. Get 1800fps+ with 158gr Hornady XTP over 17gr Li'lgun in my 20" Rossi. Grouping is good in spite of less than stellar ES. Barrel gets very hot after just a few rounds. Cast bullets didn't do so well with Li'lgun but both jacketed and cast did with about 13gr #9. A little less velocity but good groups.
Autocomp for lighter loads great grouping.
I'll be giving Longshot a try soon.

 

I've got a buddy that casts 158 gr RNFP's ( a Lee mold I bought for him), that I get a decent supply of boolits from .... about 95% are "good" and the rest I give him back to re-cast. Oddly enough, after using them for the last 5 years or so, I've found they were about as good as anything in my 3" Ruger SP101. Then last year I traded a Ruger SRH .44 mag for a "like new" stainless 16" Rossi R92 in .357 mag. Lo and behold, my buddy's 158 gr RNFP's have proven to be the most accurate loads with that same 13.0 gr of AA#9 out of the 4-5 bullet/powder combinations I've tried. I already knew the AA#9 was the powder for me with my R92 in .44 mag, so the .357 mag results weren't much of a surprise. It may be the 1:30 barrel twist of all the Rossi lever guns, and the minor variation in burn rate between AA#9 and A2400, that make the difference, but it seems to be there. I haven't even had the time to chrono the Rossi .357 but the few times I've had it at the range the AA#9 rounds have shown the most promise.

Yeah, I'm a reloadingsissie .... I still shy away from H110 and W296. The window is too tight for my tastes.

jd

 

My pet loads for my 1912 Model 92, converted around 1962 from shot out 38-40 to .357 by the wonderful Mr. Boozer, are the Speer 146 jhp over about 14.5 2400, or the Lyman 358156 and the same amount of the same powder. 24" rifle that I really need to chronograph. Hope Il follows suit and makes pistol caliber rifles legal for deer. This or either of my 94s, one a Win, other Marlin, and both 44s would be choice.

 

I like AA # 9, although for milder loads there's nothing wrong with Bullseye.
GH1

 

We all eventually find the load that suits us (and our rifle) the best, but a lot of it depends on how you reload, i.e., what equipment you use. I use nothing but Lee dies for pistol-caliber loads because I can mount a Lee powder measure on each #2 die, and drop powder as the case mouth gets flared. I used the Lee Auto-Disk setup for years but it wasn't exactly perfect, and eventually I upgraded to the Pro (adjustable) metering system, and replaced all nine of the powder measures on my pistol dies for the better ones. Now life is far simpler.... and better.

I am NOT a fan of H-110/296, Mr Surveyor said it well when he wrote, " I still shy away from H110 and W296. The window is too tight for my tastes." That's how I feel as well, and since I'm not a fan of full-power, 101% loads, H-110 gets reserved for the very few rounds that shoot best at full snort. There aren't many.

Settling on a load for each caliber is a wonderful idea, but something I've struggled with for 35 years or so, there are just so many powder and bullet combinations to experiment with, and I want to try them all! But when Lil Gun was introduced I bought it, tested it to death, and decided that was the one for me. Easy metering, consistent results, great load density, and accuracy that makes your nose cool and moist and your coat sleek and glossy. I know folks are getting tired of seeing these groups, but it's why I love this powder in my 1894C.....it will consistently do this with the load I finally settled on, 16.2/Lil Gun/Rem 158. Five shots at fifty yards, rested. If the groups start opening up, it either means I'm getting tired and not focusing properly, the gun is filthy, or both.



I've played with every bullet I could find in the 357, from 88 grains up to 220, and I'm firmly convinced the 158-grainer at about 1700 fps is the best all-around "Utility Load" I'll ever find. It also tends to shoot well from a wide variety of guns, and that combination has been dubbed the "Papajohn Load", meaning it's in the rarefied atmosphere of loads that seems to shoot well in a large percentage of the guns they're fired in. It's really too bad I can't get royalties for these things, I worked my ass off trying to find them! :bandit:

 

We all eventually find the load that suits us (and our rifle) the best, but a lot of it depends on how you reload, i.e., what equipment you use. I use nothing but Lee dies for pistol-caliber loads because I can mount a Lee powder measure on each #2 die, and drop powder as the case mouth gets flared. I used the Lee Auto-Disk setup for years but it wasn't exactly perfect, and eventually I upgraded to the Pro (adjustable) metering system, and replaced all nine of the powder measures on my pistol dies for the better ones. Now life is far simpler.... and better.

I am NOT a fan of H-110/296, Mr Surveyor said it well when he wrote, " I still shy away from H110 and W296. The window is too tight for my tastes." That's how I feel as well, and since I'm not a fan of full-power, 101% loads, H-110 gets reserved for the very few rounds that shoot best at full snort. There aren't many.

Settling on a load for each caliber is a wonderful idea, but something I've struggled with for 35 years or so, there are just so many powder and bullet combinations to experiment with, and I want to try them all! But when Lil Gun was introduced I bought it, tested it to death, and decided that was the one for me. Easy metering, consistent results, great load density, and accuracy that makes your nose cool and moist and your coat sleek and glossy. I know folks are getting tired of seeing these groups, but it's why I love this powder in my 1894C.....it will consistently do this with the load I finally settled on, 16.2/Lil Gun/Rem 158. Five shots at fifty yards, rested. If the groups start opening up, it either means I'm getting tired and not focusing properly, the gun is filthy, or both.



I've played with every bullet I could find in the 357, from 88 grains up to 220, and I'm firmly convinced the 158-grainer at about 1700 fps is the best all-around "Utility Load" I'll ever find. It also tends to shoot well from a wide variety of guns, and that combination has been dubbed the "Papajohn Load", meaning it's in the rarefied atmosphere of loads that seems to shoot well in a large percentage of the guns they're fired in. It's really too bad I can't get royalties for these things, I worked my ass off trying to find them! :bandit:

papajohn,
Can you elaborate on your concerns with H110/W296. I am just about to start using the 296 to load 200gr. 44 mag.
Thanks

 

.357 is fairly easy to reload and a lot of powder work well in it. I have had the best luck with LilGun, Unique and 4227. LilGun for stout loads, 4227 for medium loads and Unique for lighter loads. I shoot lever action silhouette with my .357 - using 125gr XTP bullet and 6gr of Unique = same point of aim from 40 to 100 meters!
4227 sends the targets flying and is a bit of "overkill."
And, I use LilGun for 158gr XTPs when I use the .357 rifle for the 50/100/150/200 meter targets. 16gr of Lilgun and a 158gr bullet has no problem taking a 200 meter (65 pound) ram. Would be an ideal whitetail load too.
Michael

 

Lil'Gun works great with heavy bullets, 180gr+. Don't use it in a revolver though, you'll flame cut in no time.

 

As the rumor has it!
However, none of us have experienced it!

Michael

 

H110/W296 is one of the finest, smoothest flowing easy metering charge throw consistent ball powders extant. If it causes your "drum to bind up" then the presumption is that you are using a Lee Perfect Powder Measure, which is otherwise imperfect with small granuled ball powders.

A measure problem, not a powder problem.

 

I am partial to IMR-4227 followed by 2400

 

MEDoc, the knock on H-110/296 is that you have to run loads at 97+% of maximum to get true consistency, and while that load level may be fine in one gun, it may cause an over-pressure situation in a different gun. I like having a built-in safety cushion, so the vast majority of my loads are in the 90-95% range. My Lil Gun load, mentioned above, is 16.2 grains of powder though the manufacturer says you can go as high as 18 grains with that bullet. I choose not to, because 16.2 seems to hit the accuracy node in a lot of guns, and 1750 fps is all I need to ask from a 357 load in a rifle.

As for Lil Gun causing flame cutting in revolvers........I'm not convinced it's a big deal, unless you're using light-for-caliber bullets and shooting a ton of them at maximum pressure. The 357 Maximum cartridge was also accused of being a topstrap cutter when ball powders were used, but the problem seemed to stop after the initial cutting occurred. 2400 probably does the same thing to a lesser degree, but Lil Gun burns hotter. The flame-cutting issue was raised once, got a lot of ink, then just kind of faded away, and I haven't heard of anyone else having any issues with it.

 

H110/W296 was my "go to powder" for magnum loads for decades, and would produce some great results.... IF I had the patience and tenacity to test/retest every load batch any time anything changed in components, crimp, etc. I found it to be particularly finicky about primers. Changing from one brand to another, occasionally even different batches from the same vendor, would often need the load to be tweaked a tenth of a grain or two to maintain the best groups. Occasionally even loads from the same batch that shot sub-MOA one day, would group 2-3 MOA on another day in the same gun.

It was when I started shooting smaller cases with lighter loads (22Hornet and 32H&R mag) that I ran into real issues with H110/W296, especially with loads on the lower end of the chart. In decades of loading I'd never experienced a hang fire (delayed ignition), until I tried H110/W296 in 22Hornet. That, combined with tenth of a grain changes or variations producing unpredictable results, is what prompted me to try other mag powders, and I found LilGun worked best.

I found loads in the same ballistic levels in all calibers to be more accurate over a much wider spectrum of loads with LilGun than any other magnum powder, H110/W296 included. I also found that LilGun doesn't seem to be primer finicky. While I do see some minor differences in groups between results at certain specific loads, the differences were what I classified as insignificant. With LilGun I found I can interchange primer brands, and even most different vendors' like projectiles, and the results are very consistent/predictable.

I will say the only downside to LilGun is heat... A 5 or 10 shot string within a 2-4 minute period in one of my rifles results in a noticeably hotter barrel using LilGun loads versus ballistically equivalent H110/W296 loads. So I can see why there is a concern regarding backstrap and forcing cone wear in revolvers (I believe it was Freedom Arms that warned their customer base of the concern). Since I now seldom shoot magnum level loads in my revolvers, I do keep a bit of H110/W296 loads around for the one that I do "just in case" there is something to the backstrap/cone wear concern. For all other magnum loads applications, LilGun has become my "Go to powder".

my .02,

- Tim

 

Thanks for the get back John.
I'm just getting started with loading, and am trying to learn all I can before my experience sets in to teach. I had followed many comments on many forums that spoke of 296 being a good charge for a 44 magnum. I am going to start with 240 and 210 gr. I'll see which velocity I like better. I'll start at starting weights first.
Craig

 

I 100% AGREE w/ the following, about Lil Gun:

1) PapaJohn: (The Guru of The .357 Lil Gun Load)
"Easy metering, consistent results, great load density, and accuracy that makes your nose cool and moist and your coat sleek and glossy. I know folks are getting tired of seeing these groups, but it's why I love this powder in my 1894C.....it will consistently do this with the load I finally settled on, 16.2/Lil Gun/Rem 158. Five shots at fifty yards, rested. If the groups start opening up, it either means I'm getting tired and not focusing properly, the gun is filthy, or both.

This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized 800x450.

I've played with every bullet I could find in the 357, from 88 grains up to 220, and I'm firmly convinced the 158-grainer at about 1700 fps is the best all-around "Utility Load" I'll ever find. It also tends to shoot well from a wide variety of guns, and that combination has been dubbed the "Papajohn Load", meaning it's in the rarefied atmosphere of loads that seems to shoot well in a large percentage of the guns they're fired in."

2) BlackDog: (I Agree & NEED to Try 4227 For Sure)
"I have had the best luck with LilGun, Unique and 4227. LilGun for stout loads, 4227 for medium loads and Unique for lighter loads. I shoot lever action silhouette with my .357 - using 125gr XTP bullet and 6gr of Unique = same point of aim from 40 to 100 meters!
4227 sends the targets flying and is a bit of "overkill."
And, I use LilGun for 158gr XTPs when I use the .357 rifle for the 50/100/150/200 meter targets. 16gr of Lilgun and a 158gr bullet has no problem taking a 200 meter (65 pound) ram. Would be an ideal whitetail load too."

3)UncleSarge58 (My Opinion & Endorsement)
Started Out w/ PapaJohn's Legendary Load, Worked it UP a Lil' & Mine Likes Only 0.5gr More.
(16.7gr & That's Real Damn Close!)
Over 1700fps Too w/ Hornady 158gr XTP-Flat Points (My Meat Doe Load). Knocks 'em DDRT!
Thank You PapaJohn!

BlackDog,
Definitely Need to Look Into 4227 (It's Available Locally).
Sounds Like a Powder I Could & Would Trade for the 1ea. Unopened Canisters, of H-110 & W-296, that I Have, On Hand.
(To Other M.O/Hint, Hint...!)
UncleSarge58
US58