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Annealing

4.8K views 44 replies 20 participants last post by  Maineiac  
#1 · (Edited)
As with any part of reloading there are reasons to do something that some people take seriously, some are meh about it, and some simply aren't aware of. Annealing is no different, and as with any other part of reloading, you'll get 100 different opinions (and arguments) on how and why to do it. I'll talk about what I've done, and what I do. Your mileage may vary.

Annealing is something the average reloader might want to consider with the current situation of components being hard to find. It just makes sense to get as much use out of your stuff as you can, and annealing does infact add life to your brass far beyond what you get if you ignore it. I think gone is the day someone would just let it go and pitch a batch of brass because a few necks started to split. Replacing it is either hard to do, or non existent.

For the uninitiated let's talk a minute about one reason to anneal your brass. If you need a good example go to Lowe's and look at the copper pipe. You have soft copper and you have rigid copper. Copper and brass are similar in that they work harden. The soft copper pipe is in a much more annealed state and can be bent and twisted to pretty much any shape you need. Rigid copper pipe has been run through die after die until it work hardens enough to maintain a rigid state. If you try to bend it it will kink and break easily. Running your brass through reloading dies and firing it repeatedly adds "work" to the brass with every change in size. Pressure during firing also adds "work" to the brass, it's not just the change of size in the chamber.

Now all that work without annealing makes the brass harder and more brittle. Where this shows up first is the thin necks and shoulders, and cracks appear making the brass useless. The correction is prevention. Don't let it become brittle and the brass will last much longer. Infact, I experience loose primer pockets long before the necks or shoulders go bad.

A lot of the internet argument over annealing comes from temperature. Some will insist there is only one exact temperature that will anneal their brass, and many will say that the only way to achieve that temperature is with tempilaq or some other similar measure of temp. They're not exactly wrong, but they are over complicating it.

When you research this, and you should if you're interested, you'll find a range of temperatures that annealing occurs with brass. Below that minimum temp nothing changes and the brass remains brittle, above that maximum temp and you've over annealed making it too soft and won't hold proper neck tension. You must still maintain a certain level of hardness that gives the case neck some spring back, that is the exact thing that provides neck tension. Too soft and the bullet simply resizes the case neck and provides little to no neck tension.

Do your research from the metallurgical view point not the reloading perspective. You'll grasp a cleaner degree of knowledge about what is happening to the brass during annealing that isn't polluted with bias opinions.

I'm not going to state my numbers here, because my process may not work for you. You need to develop your own methods that give you what you need. All I'll say is I'm within the parameters of temperature that do the job and when setting up my machine I look for a certain physical change that occurs when my annealing has reached its finish.

One pro tip I'll give you right now is to tumble your brass just as shiny clean as you can get it. Any oxidation, carbon, or dirt on the brass WILL skew your judgment of a correct anneal whether you're doing it by eye or with tempilaq.

The easiest way to anneal is buy a commercial machine. Even the cheapest machine on the market though is above the pay grade of most and that alone keeps most from doing it. The more ambitious will grab a drill, chuck up a socket, and light a torch. If you're good at paying attention to detail, and don't get distracted, that method will work to add longevity to your brass, but, it's not as precise as a machine. Not even close.

The other critical part of annealing is time. When you develop your process you need to blend and balance time and temperature to achieve the correct results. A proper anneal at a suitable heat only takes a few seconds. It happens fast, and it's easy to mess up either not hot enough or too hot. A machine really is the only way to precisely control time and temperature if a precise level of anneal is your goal, meaning a consistent level of physical change in the brass.

Think of it this way. A cooked steak is edible regardless of time and temperature, but what degree of cooked suits you? Personally I like my steak precisely medium rare and nothing else. I want my annealing to be at a precise level as well, somewhere precisely between too hot and too cold.

Why would you care about a precise anneal if a wide margin of error gives you case longevity? Because if it matters to you, a precise anneal will ALSO give you better control of neck tension, runout, and shoulder set back for the sake of consistency. We all know consistency is the key to accuracy. Every case must be conditioned exactly the same to achieve a degree of predictability from shot to shot, ie, accuracy.

Case longevity becomes just a side benefit when you unlock the key to achieving a consistent anneal.

If you're annealing for precision you'll discover after you gain experience that things make a difference to your process, which is why I won't give you any numbers to go by. Neck thickness makes a difference. Thick/thin necks make a difference. The metallurgy of one brass brand is different from another and that makes a difference. Even the level of propane in your torch tank and the pressure of it burning make a difference to your time/temp. Like I said you have to develope your own process. Start with case longevity first, that's the easy part. Then if precision is what you want start playing with time/and temp to get the right neck tension and so on. I anneal after every firing to maintain that level of precision.

I want the magic of precise annealing but I don't want to pay for it, so I built a solid machine for very little money. So the point of my post here is to bring you to a video of that annealing machine I built for about $100 worth of parts off Amazon. Ebay also has what you need. This machine is the design of 'elfster" on youtube and he gives detailed instructions on how to build one and where to find parts.

If you can manage a tape measure, a drill, a hacksaw, and maybe a soldering tool, you can have a very legit annealing machine yourself to step up your game. If nothing else the home built machine will pay for itself in short order and save you a lot of money in the long run.

Hope this helps someone, it sure helped me.
I annealed with a drill and socket for years and years and years, and saved a lot of brass, but this simple machine took me to a whole nother level of precision that I'm very content with.

 
#3 ·
Thanks, very nice review of annealing.

Yeah, I'm one that does it differently. And I only anneal my rifle calibers.
 
#5 ·
Thanks, very nice review of annealing.

Yeah, I'm one that does it differently. And I only anneal my rifle calibers.
Given the times I'm going to start annealing my straight wall rifle calibers too. Belling and crimping is brutal on those case mouths.

Pistol brass, yeah I'm not that desperate yet. Lol.
 
#6 ·
5735 - your opening post was a great description of the how and why of annealing. Nicely done!

Ha, the "drill and socket" is still more advanced than my candle method... Seriously, I just hold the case above the flame until it's too hot to hold, then drop it and onto the next one. Ya, it's slow, primitive, cheap. And it seems to work pretty well. :)

If I was annealing hundreds or thousands of cases, I'd buy one of the machines.

Here's a link to a good article on annealing brass cases, including a description of the candle method.
Annealing Rifle Brass | Handloader Magazine

Guy
 
#8 ·
If I was annealing hundreds or thousands of cases, I'd buy one of the machines.

Guy
Thanks. Yeah, I totally agree. It's all based on need. There was a time not all that long ago I was running 100 rounds through a heavy barrel 243 or 300WM in competition, and 200 to 300 through them training on my own range, every month, all year. Plus reloading hunting ammo and such. So I developed a need for it. And then once my buddies found out i was annealing with a machine I was suddenly doing all their brass too. Lol.
 
#10 ·
Thanks for posting, a lot of good info. I love the cooked steak analogy, make Goldilocks proud LOL

I do annealing of my rifle brass by putting cleaned brass in a shallow plastic pistol storage/reloading box and placing it in a baking tin then filling with water to about 1" or so of the shoulder. I then run a torch over each case. It takes a little bit to get the hang of it but if you've ever done it by hand or eye, you shouldn't have too much trouble getting the right temperature. It is a lot easier to load the brass every other compartment in the box to give yourself room to work. You do not want the water ice cold but fairly warm. I can do dozens in just a few minutes.
 
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#24 ·
That is how Dad taught us. He had a torch with a fair size flame, not a little pinpoint one. Did 25-20 and a K-Hornet I got later. We pushed them over when they glowed.
 
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#12 ·
Thanks for posting that 5735rem. Good info. I have recently gone to induction annealing, however I think that the torch systems like the one on your video are every bit as good. I believe consistency is the key to get the same amount "softening" every time to control "spring back" when measuring the amount of shoulder bump or neck tension. Brass life can be an extra benefit.
 
#13 ·
Dark Cloud, I was annealing by your method more than fifty years ago. I was using a .25-06 when it was still a wildcat. .30-06 brass was plentiful at the local public range near Lincoln Nebraska. I did have a tumbler I used for those very dirty cases. I just followed a process another handloader showed me--heat neck to a particular color ( don't remember what the color was supposed to be) use the torch to knock it over in the pan of water. I did about 20 at a time. More than that and I was too clumsy to not knock them over before I hearted them. I sorted them by weight after necking them down and trimming for length and neck thickness. When I had twenty with a very close weight, I used my best technique for reloading for tight groups. Saved those for the 500+ yard prairie dogs. Never had a problem with split cases. Last time I reloaded rifle was back in about '78. Kept up with pistol because that is the only way I could afford to shoot .41 mag or .45 auto
 
#14 ·
Yep, that method is old school but works great. I was taught that method by my girlfriends father way back in the early 80's. He also taught me competition shooting, hunting, tracking and trapping. He would routinely hit rams at 500 yards offhand with a 44 magnum.
 
#16 ·
I don’t anneal bottleneck rifle brass, maybe I should! However, some testing indicates inconsistent neck tension, which may hurt long range accuracy. I’ve gotten 10 firings on magnum cases (loaded pretty darn warm) with no issues.

If it is a straight-walled case that will be crimped, especially my 460 S&W or 45-70 cases....they will be annealed for longevity purposes! memtb
 
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#19 ·
It depends on how accurate you want your ammo. If you are only shooting 100 yards it doesn't matter. Do you have a concentricity gauge? I was a happy handloader until I got my concentricity gauge. It showed me what junk I was assembling. Same with annealing. I could feel while seating something wasn't right, but I just kept going with occasional flyers followed by excuses. All the serious competitors do both these things. Their ammo just can't be good, it has to be the best it can be. The actual pulling of the trigger and reading the wind is the last part of the skill it takes to win.

The question is how good do you want to be? As handloaders, target shooters, and hunters....I think we would want to do the best job we can. The old "I've always done it this way" can easily be disputed as not the right way with so many professional shooters doing it the right way. They don't do it for fun, but for a living. They have to do it the right way. So, why cant we as hunters, target shooters, and plinkers learn from the best to make our ammo the best ?
 
#21 ·
Great post. I use a Giraud to extend the life of 223 and 300blk brass and an Amp for more expensive brass. I do believe that in the next decade we’re going to see an end to inexpensive ammo, and with that inexpensive range brass in common calibers. No, I’m not annealing 9mm, but I am 41mag, 360dw and 357max.

One thing to add, neck tension is “work” from the brass’ perspective, so ammo that’s been stored for decades will often have brittle case mouths. I’ve had it happen with 357mag that was stored for less than 20 years, but mostly it’s an issue with older mil ammo. When the brass is hard to find I always suggest pulling the bullet and annealing the case rather than shooting it and seeing how many pieces survive.
 
#25 ·
I have a browser tab open on the YouTube DIY annealing "machine." I have closed it and found it in the History and opened a dozen times. YOU DON'T NEED THIS. but i want it. YOU DON'T NEED THIS. but I want it. A CANDLE HAS WORKED JUST FINE. you suck.
And from the other room she says, "if you get one could you do that outside?" am i talking to myself "Yes!"
 
#34 ·
You can use the thumb nail test to see if you went too far on the annealing. If you can bend the case mouth too easily with no discomfort to your thumb nail, it may be too soft. It's not necessarily ruined. Size the case and neck down, then use an expanding mandrel to expand it back out. Hardening of the brass will begin immediately. Try the thumb nail test again. Just the working of the brass from normal reloading procedures will harden the brass. The problem for precision long range shooting is, each particular piece of brass will not harden at the exact same amount as they are fired and reloaded several times. Some will have more spring back than others. You will see this if you measure the amount of shoulder bump on each cartridge, and some shooters even have tools to measure the amount of force it takes to seat the bullet indicating consistency of neck tension.
In some cartridges I reload for, it is not unusual to see the neck start to glow for a fraction of a second. It doesn't hurt a thing and is unavoidable with some brass ass the neck is thinner than the shoulder and there is no way you are going to anneal a shoulder over 750 degrees without reaching a higher temperature on the mouth of the neck. I have painted the sides of cartridges all the way up with both the 750 degree and 1000 degree Tempilaq paint on some of my brass cartridges when using my induction annealer with the mouth of the necks clearly showing least a thousand degrees or more and had no problems with necks being too soft.
Also it is impossible to "burn the zinc" out of brass cases as I have read on the internet. Look up the melting point of zinc. The entire cartridge would have to be melted into a puddle before the zinc would melt.
Main thing is, consistency. Get a standard protocol for each brand of brass and each particular cartridge, take notes, and do them all the exact same way every time...that has been my experience for what it's worth.
 
#36 ·
You can use the thumb nail test to see if you went too far on the annealing. If you can bend the case mouth too easily with no discomfort to your thumb nail, it may be too soft. It's not necessarily ruined. Size the case and neck down, then use an expanding mandrel to expand it back out. Hardening of the brass will begin immediately. Try the thumb nail test again. Just the working of the brass from normal reloading procedures will harden the brass. The problem for precision long range shooting is, each particular piece of brass will not harden at the exact same amount as they are fired and reloaded several times. Some will have more spring back than others. You will see this if you measure the amount of shoulder bump on each cartridge, and some shooters even have tools to measure the amount of force it takes to seat the bullet indicating consistency of neck tension.
In some cartridges I reload for, it is not unusual to see the neck start to glow for a fraction of a second. It doesn't hurt a thing and is unavoidable with some brass ass the neck is thinner than the shoulder and there is no way you are going to anneal a shoulder over 750 degrees without reaching a higher temperature on the mouth of the neck. I have painted the sides of cartridges all the way up with both the 750 degree and 1000 degree Tempilaq paint on some of my brass cartridges when using my induction annealer with the mouth of the necks clearly showing least a thousand degrees or more and had no problems with necks being too soft.
Also it is impossible to "burn the zinc" out of brass cases as I have read on the internet. Look up the melting point of zinc. The entire cartridge would have to be melted into a puddle before the zinc would melt.
Main thing is, consistency. Get a standard protocol for each brand of brass and each particular cartridge, take notes, and do them all the exact same way every time...that has been my experience for what it's worth.
Never mentioned burning zinc out of the brass. I did mention the oxide formed from the heat burning off. Not the same thing.

Zinc by itself melts at only 37 degrees higher than the commonly accepted annealing temp of 750 degrees. It takes a much higher temperature though to separate the zinc from the copper in a brass alloy.

Brass is difficult to melt without losing zinc content because the zinc does reach it's boiling point before brass reaches it's melting point, and produces a white toxic smoke. Your puddle would have much less zinc left in it, so yeah it does burn off, but not at annealing temps.

1000 degrees on your necks? Be a tad more judicious on how you aim your flame. It's not that hard to do. There's no reason at all to let necks get that hot, and yes, it's avoidable.

Your comment is taking the point of this discussion down a rabbit hole it doesn't need to go. Just sayin'. I'm speaking from the perspective of reloading 300 to 400 rounds of centerfire rounds per month, 12 months a year, for many years. Rounds that were fired at steel targets between 400 yards and 1200 yards. When you drop $100 per month on match entry fees, close to that dollar amount on fuel to travel to the match, and the cost of reloading that much ammo, you quickly look for ways to not waste money, and in this case, rifle brass. And of course, precision is the driving force, as hits equal points. I anneal after every firing, so yes, my brass stays much more consistent than brass that is fired several times before annealing. That's the entire point of doing it that way.

Your. Mileage. May. Vary..........