Don't think that I would use the FTX, all others would be subject too consideration. Never killed anything outside of the SE US myself, so just my opinion. I look forward to hearing how it goes.

 

I don't know how well they expand but accuracy and feeding the 300 grain Hornady HP performs very well in my SBL.

Interesting project, I am tuning in.

Padraig

 

I don't know how well they expand but accuracy and feeding the 300 grain Hornady HP performs very well in my SBL.

Interesting project, I am tuning in.

Padraig

I keep buying those up when I find them. I really like that bullet.

 

Just what it says. No, this is not a joke. And I am not looking for naysayers. I heard from plenty of them when I decided to chase after Cape buffalo with my .45-70/GBL. 3 years later? 2 shots, 2 buffalo. I am quite sure I can kill a lion.

This is far from a done deal; it would happen in 2025. I am talking to a few outfitters in Africa. I have a couple who have given their OK to me using my GBL for this hunt.

The recommended wisdom of those who have hunted lion (mostly from the Africa Hunting site), albeit with double rifle or bolt action, is to use soft points - expansion is apparently the name of the game. Even though this is a year and a half out, I am doing my research now.

Thoughts I have had: Hawk Bullets (never used them but have considered them many times for other things), the normal Speer or Hornady 350 grain bullets I normally use, or the factory LEVER ammo with the 325 FTX bullets. I have not killed anything with the .45-70 FTXs, but they have done incredibly well out of my .338 ME, to include 10 bull moose that were all basically one shot kills, and some larger plains game species in Africa.

Sooo... suggestions on soft points for this endeavor? Flaws with my current considerations? Stuff out there I don't know about yet? And if possible, suggest stuff I can actually find - no unicorn stuff please.

Blog

45-70-for-dangerous-game.6852

 

I am happy to share as I go along @Padraig ... but it's got a long way to play out. I'm kinda stupid sometimes about starting something way in advance and then researching the crap out of it.

 

I understand. I tend to often do the same, drives my wife crazy. However the research can be interesting and often fun.

Padraig

 

Yeah, @PoopDeckPappy , I have seen pretty much everything on AH a Google search can turn up. I am a very active member on there. I'll be honest: I have not asked on there yet, because I know the majority will shout me down for doing it as a stunt, which I assure you it is not. I LOVE that site - and it has great people. But most are not big lever gun fans, particularly where DG is concerned.

 

@Padraig ... I think we'd see eye to eye on this. I know this: I have done hunts in other places - Sitka, Kodiak. I have been to Africa twice solo, with no cell phone (hahaha). These trips always go without a hitch, and I like to believe it's the research that puts me in good stead when the time comes.

 

I’d advocate for my 400-grain Speer load pushed by 55(C) grains of Varget with a MV of 1,800 fps. But then, what the heck do I know about lion hunting? I’m just an Ohio deer hunter. Great thread — I’ll be folllowing with interest.

 

@Judson ... I have thought about grain weight too? Some things I have read suggested trying to squeeze as many fps as possible. Also, I have a bunch of 350 grain Speers. I am not against considering 400 though. Thanks for the suggestion.

Oh and what do you know? Hahahaha... Like I know anything about lions.

 

400 gr Speer provides a lot of bullet weight and is known as a "soft" rapid expanding bullet.

350 gr Hornady FN or RN bullets expand well and penetrate well. Can get more velocity than the 400's.

350 gr Swift A-Frame is a premium bullet that expands wonderfully yet keeps the mass intact.

300 gr Barnes TSX? I haven't shot 'em, but they seem to be tough enough for good penetration and also expand well.

I have never hunted lion either! That would be most of us... Best of luck! Whichever bullet you choose, practice with them. They must function through the action so quickly and easily....

Enjoy your hunt!

Regards, Guy

 

I'm as green as a June apple on that sort of hunt. Seems to me though, whatever round took down two Cape buffalos ought to work fine on a lion.

 

Congrats on seeking out a possible second hunt in Africa! Having never shot anything larger than an elk, and no game animals with a 45-70, anything I can suggest is sheer speculation.

Since I normally use cast bullets or 300gr. JHP's in my 45-70's, I'm not exactly sure what other bullet weight availability is right now. For something like lion, I would think that something a little heavier than a 300 or 350 grain would be wise. If you can find a 405 grain soft point, and your rifle shoots them well, you might consider that. I wouldn't think you go a whole heavier than that and still have reliable feeding in a Marlin.

Anyway, something to think about and research, since you seem to have a decent amount of time.

 

I recommend the 350 grain Swift A-Frames, which M700 also mentioned. They will expand, but also retain mass to ensure penetration. Swift makes the 350 grain specifically for the 45/70.

A-Frame Lever Action Rifle Bullets Cal 45/70 | 350 gr – Swift Bullet Company (swiftbullets.com)

 

If the Hornady took down two Cape buffalos, it will take a lion.
Andrew

 

If the Hornady took down two Cape buffalos, it will take a lion.
Andrew

The Hornady did not. I used Cutting Edge 325 grain brass solids on the buff. They shot very well, but I have read solids are a bad idea on lions.

 

im jealous about the financial capability to get 2 buffalo and 10 moose. I'm hesitant to even go get a whitetail for the $100 processing fee.

I otherwise have no advice to offer as i've only hunted whitetail with .30-06, but im intrigued to know what plays out.

 

im jealous about the financial capability to get 2 buffalo and 10 moose. I'm hesitant to even go get a whitetail for the $100 processing fee.

I otherwise have no advice to offer as i've only hunted whitetail with .30-06, but im intrigued to know what plays out.

The moose are here at home; it's largely gas for the skiff, a bit of food, and good to go. Even the resident tags are free. And I process all of my own.

 

Lion are actually probably well within the wheelhouse of a lot of 45/70 bullets. Also, most lion hunts involve the PH firing into it after you do so I see no issues here but I would use the bullet that your PH wants you to use.

 

There will be a conversation about that before I select someone. I have seen videos from a few folks that have hunted at places I am considering, and the PH did not fire a shot.

 

No thank you. I've gotten comfortable in my skin. Make sure your volume is on when you watch this.

 

No thank you. I've gotten comfortable in my skin.

Worth noting a lion only has a 1 i/2" of scull above the eyes, the rest is skin, muscle and gristle in a head on charge, Gar.

 

In response to the video above... One of the outfitters I am talking to, when I asked about using my lever action, said the following: "LOL. Sure. Why not? You only live once but if you do it right once is all you need."

By the way, a brown bear with my bow is still on my bucket list too. I have come close several times but no shot opportunities. By close, on a handful of occasions it's been under 20 yards, on the ground. Swirling breezes or brush have kept me unsuccessful.

 

Well he got his money's worth! And his PH earned his tip.

I assume you've read Hemingway, Ruark, and Capstick. Probably why you're going to Africa. Solids for buffalo, rhino, and elephant--expanding bullets for lions and leopards, and plains game.

Have you decided between jacketed and cast bullets? Penetration with cast bullets will be more than adequate for lion.

For cast bullets, I've had good accuracy results with GT Bullets. They offer hollow points with gas checks in several weights. I would try the 320g and the 385g. GT Bullets 45-70 They use a 2-2-96 alloy. Just looking at the two bullet designs, I would lean toward the 385g for its bigger meplate, cavity, and the wall of its cavity being thinner.

Velocity? 1700-2100 fps depending on best accuracy and your tolerance to recoil.

I've shot the 385s but not used them on game. They work well in my 1895 45-70.

All the best, and keep us in the loop.

 

Capstick yes, Hemingway a little... NoPe, they are not the reason I am going. It was outdoor writers from my youth, like Carmichael. I have been twice - and had a lot of success. I am starting to expand what I want, as I consider the future. Lion has always been on my bucket list. It'll happen next, I hope. Perhaps after that hippo and croc.

I have not considered cast bullets, and don't plan too. For one, I tried several sizes when I was looking for a buffalo load. I couldn't even manage shotgun patterns with any of the cast loads I tried. The solid brass ones were fabulous - nice and tight. But I have not considered cast mainly because expansion is supposed to be more important than penetration, so I am planning on jacketed. Just looking for the right jacketed.

 

I have read threads on a few forums that stated to NOT use the 400 gr Speer on anything larger than an elk due to that bullet's inherent softness. I have used that bullet on whitetail deer and it worked just fine--but medium thinner skinned game doesn't compare to a large bear or a lion for that matter. I think M700 has it right---look into the 350 gr and 300 gr FP/RN jacketed offerings which are harder but have pretty good controlled expansion. My son likes the Hornady 350 gr Interlock FP which he has used on both deer and pigs.

 

45-70 for Lions? I learned long ago not to doubt its abilities. Especially when properly loaded and in the hands of a competent hunter/shooter. OP checks all the boxes. I think its sounds awesome! And I for one cant wait to see the pics of that lever gun lying across a downed lion.

 

don't overlook a 250 grain Hawk round nose out of that 338mx either, depending on the terrain and visibility limits of the hunting area. Up close, high grass, or lots of vegetation I would not hesitate to use my guide gun with a premium interlock of some sort. Hornady 350 grain flat point at about 1850 fps comes to mind.

I am also a planner. It's a part of the hunt I really enjoy. Currently planning a 2026 hunt for moose at a location 3500 miles away....

 

don't overlook a 250 grain Hawk round nose out of that 338mx either, depending on the terrain and visibility limits of the hunting area. Up close, high grass, or lots of vegetation I would not hesitate to use my guide gun with a premium interlock of some sort. Hornady 350 grain flat point at about 1850 fps comes to mind.

I am also a planner. It's a part of the hunt I really enjoy. Currently planning a 2026 hunt for moose at a location 3500 miles away....

It has to be .375 diameter and above. I'm like you: I have faith in the .338 ME though.

 

I prefer Barnes TXS FNFB (45-70) 300gr .458. It has good accuracy, controlled expansion and deep penetration in same bullet.

 

Even though it's not a soft point, this is under consideration as well.

 

I'm not sure why anyone would look down on the 45-70 for a lion gun. When you look at some of the stuff that has been called lion calibers, it is well within the 45-70's capabilities. I've not hunted lion but I can't see where it would be much different killing one than any other thin skinned animal. I think you'd have to go a long way to beat the 350g A Frame. I would go with that just because you should get a little better penetration with it. The 350g Hornady would be a close second but I think the Swift would be better if you get into a situation where there is an odd angle and the bullet has to make it to the boiler room. Of course as with all hunting shots, bullet placement trumps everything else. There is nothing better than hunting something that is hunting you back! Keep us posted as we're all living vicariously through you.

 

A Frames and Partitions would have my eye. But as near as I can see from my searches, I'd have a better chance of finding vacuum packed unicorn backstrap. Still, I have time and will continue looking. These two move to the front if I ever find them.

 

When getting involved in these type of threads, I'll always add the disclaimer that I'm more book then bang. Elk and mule deer are it for me.

That said, I've set on Swift 350 gr (A-Frame) cartridges as of now in my 1895s/1886s for elk in timber where grizzly can be an issue.

I'm looking at the 300 TSX (need speed) when I get back to the reloading bench, for my 1885s and possibly my 1886s.

Other options for me at this time is looking at what Garrett Cartridges is doing with the 45-70 ..........lots of knowledge/history there.

 

If you have too much speed with 300 gr TSX, bullet lost it's opened and enlarged petals.