Yikes!

 

It's amazing how such wonderful guns can come from countries with strict gun control laws. Beautiful, simply beautiful! AC

 

Kinda like Jack Daniels

 

Very nice

 

Yep...kinda like it myself!

 

Pedersoli makes nice stuff....pricey too...but most likely worth it......but me, I will take a side eject Marlin any day.

 

Pedersoli makes nice stuff....pricey too...but most likely worth it......

I have their 1886/71 in 45-70, it is a VERY!NICE! rifle, it's also the most I've ever spent on a rifle too!

 

$1,9000 from Taylors, a 19 inch 444 called the BoarBuster, nice looking rifle. They have multiple varations in 45-70, but so far this is the only 444 actaully cataloged, the light 444 rifle shown above should have a 22inch barrel, hopefully this new model will hurry along.

 

I am just glad that somebody is keeping the 444 alive!!!!

 

Several interesting 444's are available in Europe if cost is no object. Mostly doubles.
Alaska Standard / Lusso
They also make one of the only new hammer doubles called the Yukon in 444.
Mine (seen in avatar) is this one:
BR550 Express
It is actually lighter than the 444S but the stock design is so much better you don't notice especially off-hand.
It has slight cast as well as twist at the butt. For a generic design it is superb.
I don't know of too many stock designs worse (for me at least) than the 444S.

 

Did you all notice the rifling and twist rates? The .45-70 got a 1 in 18" twist/6 groove,the .444 got the 1 in 38" rate/12 groove. Looks like Pedersoli copied the old Micro-Groove for the .444. A fine looking outfit.


Rob

 

The thing I can't understand is why just 45/70 and 444. With the 86 action you could do 450 Alaskan, 50 Alaskan and 50-110 Winchester. No offense to the 444, but those are real boarbusters!

 

What I can't understand is why the CIP, without engaging a single neuron, copied our stupid 1/38" twist for the 444.
A simple change to even 1/30" would have made all the difference when it comes to the bigger bullets.
The microgroove I can work with (although I would not miss it either).
That slow twist is just dumb.
A 1/25" twist will stabilize the big 400+ grain 44's down below 1000 fps.

 

The 1-20 Ballard twist will stabilize 400+ grain bullets...I shoot 410's as the "standard" bullet, and 455's as the heavyweight bullet in my Safari Grade 444 and they do just fine.....also shoot the lighter bullets well too, but in my SG 444 about 325 is the lightest I would shoot. If I had my druthers, I would opt for a 1-18 twist which would make the 444 suitable for 500 grain bullets as well, or thereabouts.

 

Pedersoli, would have done well to consult with Marlinowners.

 

It would have been nicer with a faster twist but that is one fine looking rifle!

 

I'm trying to find the price, does anyone knows?

 

1900.00 was mentioned earlier.

 

There are a couple of other links this company in years past, they have been making 444's for a while. I've heard very mixed reviews on the rifle.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/444-marlin/78137-ain-t-marlin-but-444-levergun.html

 

Sharp looking rifle for sure.

 

Thats right!!!! "It aint a Marlin"!!!! Need I say more?

 

That Cherry's site mentioned in the old thread currently has the BoarBuster at an even $2K
Cherry's Pedersoli modern rifle page
$2K really isn't out of line for a "semi-custom" rifle.
I see true custom rifles at $5K all the time and even that barely gets you in the door for a double.
Then again you can have any twist you want in that true custom.(1)
I notice that they also make a hammer double like SIACE but only in 45-70. 1/18 twist.
You would think someone would notice the discrepancy in the twist rates between the 44 and 45.
Theoretically the 45 needs LESS twist for a given weight bullet as they are shorter.

(1) My current custom dream rifle would be a High Wall in 444 with heavy 24" bull barrel and double set trigger.
I'd have to think about the twist. 1/25" calculates out as good for everything I would be doing.
Certainly working wonders in my 17" Encore 445 but the 300's are about as heavy as I go in that one.
18,20,25 and 38 seem to be the only 44 caliber twist rates available off the shelf from the barrel makers like MGM or Pac-Nor.
Caliber and Twist Rate Chart - PAC-NOR Barreling, Inc.
I know there are guys with smaller shops and a sine-bar machine that will make anything you want.

 

That Cherry's site mentioned in the old thread currently has the BoarBuster at an even $2K
Cherry's Pedersoli modern rifle page
$2K really isn't out of line for a "semi-custom" rifle.
I see true custom rifles at $5K all the time and even that barely gets you in the door for a double.
Then again you can have any twist you want in that true custom.(1)
I notice that they also make a hammer double like SIACE but only in 45-70. 1/18 twist.
You would think someone would notice the discrepancy in the twist rates between the 44 and 45.
Theoretically the 45 needs LESS twist for a given weight bullet as they are shorter.

(1) My current custom dream rifle would be a High Wall in 444 with heavy 24" bull barrel and double set trigger.
I'd have to think about the twist. 1/25" calculates out as good for everything I would be doing.
Certainly working wonders in my 17" Encore 445 but the 300's are about as heavy as I go in that one.
18,20,25 and 38 seem to be the only 44 caliber twist rates available off the shelf from the barrel makers like MGM or Pac-Nor.
Caliber and Twist Rate Chart - PAC-NOR Barreling, Inc.
I know there are guys with smaller shops and a sine-bar machine that will make anything you want.

Cherry's always seems to be above average for pricing on pretty much everything. Sabattis, Siaces, Dakotas, and more.
DGW offers some of the same rifles for 20-30% less ($350 in the case of the BoarBuster).

After consulting with Dixie, I think retail on the (basic) new model should eventually settle around $1,700 anywhere but Cherry's.


I agree about the twist rate.
1:38" is stupid when there are much better options available. Yes, it's the traditional specification; but so were leather valves in carburetors and polyester tires, when Marlin adopted that standard.
1:20" is too fast for most loads. (It works, but many, many bullets skid right across the rifling until they're spinning enough to get 'bitten' by the lands.)
1:30" is all 99% of owners would ever need.
1:26 to 1:28" would be a fair compromise, if erring on the side of fast twist was desired.

I almost ordered a 444 barrel blank from Lothar Walther a few years ago. At that time, they offered 26" and 28" twists. I'd be perfectly satisfied with either (probably leaning more toward 1:28"). But, they appear to only offer 1:20" now.

 

I always like the 1886. Had one in 33 Winchester.

But in 444 Marlin, I would rather have the Marlin.

 

That Pedersoli in 405 Winchester would be cool.....:bandit:

T.S.

 

The light model 444 was listed in Guns of the Old West over a year and a half ago. There is even a pic on here someplace.

The lack of Pedersoli inventory and the cost of a Dakota is what made me search for the Stainless Handi Unicorn.

They reran the spot back in Feburary but we still can't hardly find one.

http://gunsoftheoldwest.com/2016/02/21-new-old-west-guns-2016/#cimarron-1889-double

I don't know why Marlin, Winnie, or Henry can't do us right. I'm entrenched with more 444's at this point than I deserve or will ever use but I have the bug.

I think a Brass Henry would be the end all.

 

Well Winchester don't chamber for the 444 Marlin now but do in 45-70. Winchester looks like a good quality Rifle For a lot less money too.
Model 1886 Short Rifle

 

The world is your oyster as a 45/70 shooter

 

Yeah, but the average .45/70 shooter doesn't know how to shuck an oyster!
(Oooh did I just say that?)

Vooch

 

As far as Winnies go, I have always wanted to get a couple of '71s.
Shoot the best one in 348 and rebarrel the other to 44 Alaskan.
Prefer my Browning (Miroku) B92 in 44 mag to the 3 '94s I have in that caliber.
The 16" Trapper is a cute easy carrying gun though.
I had one of the first laminate stocks Win ever offered put on it after sale.

These are NOT to scale obviously.
Had some better wood and a butt pad put on the B92 I liked it so much at the time.

 

Back in the day, the large 2 and 4 bore guns were used for hunting the largest game in the world. Before rifled bores the smoothbore did the deed...firing up to half pound balls with up to 700 grains of black powder (2 bore)...muzzle energy over 17,000 ft lbs. When rifling was developed the " smoothbore" was relegated to the gun cabinet and the rifled barrel became all the rage...............until it was noticed that accuracy was failing and bores were leading...seriously! The term used then and now was that the pure lead balls were "stripping" in the rifling. Many hunters returned to the smoothbore! This had absolutely NOTHING to do with the rifled barrels twist, but had everything to do with the pure lead ball subjected to the pressures of huge amounts of black powder exploding behind them within a limited space....something had to give, and it was the pure lead ball! To solve the problem the pure lead balls were hardened with pewter...problem solved....and the rifling of barrels became the norm!

Do bullets truly "strip" inside a bore, and does rifling twist have anything to do with that... if they do? I believe that at the initial engagement, under the pressure of powder burning gases, of any bullet, in any rifled bore, that there is to some degree a bit of "deformation", but, that deformation because the bullet is in a liquid state when under pressure, and is "formed" by the rifling and bore of the gun, does not cause stripping regardless of the twist (within reason)....................."IF" the bullet is sized appropriately for the bore, and the construction materials of the bullet are suitable for the pressures being applied to it.

That being said, and a case in point: In my SG 444 I shoot a 410 grain bullet at 2160 fps....a 455 grain bullet at 2100 fps...and a 300 grain bullet at 2500 fps!!! The bullets for these velocities are all 21 to 22 BHN and are sized appropriately for the slugged bore diameter. Accuracy is one hole, and there is no leading....which leads me to believe that the bullets are not "stripping" in the bore, but, the 444 is comparatively (to small bore high pressure cartridges) easy on a bullet. My rifle is a 1-20 twist.

To the extreme, my SG 35 shoots my 75/25 alloy (BHN 15) bullets of 310 at 2250 fps, 260 at 2500 fps, and 230 grains at over 2600 fps. In my 35 the bore is small (compared to my 444) and the twist is fast at 1-16, yet even these "soft" bullets will shoot one hole groups with virtually no leading...if any. I think this is simply because the sized diameter of the bullet and the alloy is suitable for my rifle at those velocities.

It all boils down to this: If your bullet is sized to fit your bore, and if the alloy of your bullet is correct for the velocities you are running, a bullet "stripping" in the bore is a non-issue.

Twist rate is the determinate factor in choosing a bullet of suitable weight/length, but through my testing and experience I see no relationship to barrel twist rate and the stripping effect that is discussed here.