A proper 10mm load should be a 200 grain bullet moving at 1200+ fps. A hardcast bullet at that speed will penetrate 36 inches of gelatin. It has more energy at 100 yards than a standard 45 ACP does at the muzzle. Unfortunately, many factory 10mm loads are performing at .40 S&W levels.

 

Should I really bother with a 10mm? I have an XD 9mm that I rarely shoot anyway. Bears ain’t a problem around me so it’d be just for fun to shoot, I guess the real question is would it be any more fun than my XD or 1911

 

Back in the day, nearly all Law Enforcement Officers carried revolvers. At the time the 10mm was developed, bullet design was not where it is today. Today's defensive ammo has very reliable penetration and expansion, even after passing through layers such as denim and leather, making the 9mm Luger a viable LEO carry option. Stopping power back then, was considered to be proportional to bullet diameter, since the bullets of the day often did not perform optimally. They would often over expand, or over penetrate. Bigger diameter, more powerful rounds, were felt to be a necessary solution.

The 10mm is essentially a magnum that falls between the 9mm-38 Special-357 mag , and 11mm-44 mag. Law enforcement thought they wanted more power than the 357 mag, and few officers (Clint Eastwood excepted) could shoot the 44 mag well, or wanted to carry a revolver that big and heavy. It turned out that the 10 mm still generated more recoil than many cared for, and the revolvers were still heavy to carry. For that matter, very few LEOs shoot the 357 mag as well as they can shoot a 9mm. As service calibers became larger and generated more recoil, shooting proficiency qualifications fell. This was a problem as no LEO departments wanted to have many or even any, officers who could not qualify with their service arm.

The 357 Sig came later. It approximates a 125 gr 357 mag round and can be chambered in a reasonable sized auto loader handgun.

Revolvers are more difficult to shoot well than auto loaders, without a lot of practice with the revolvers. . Qualification scores improved when departments switched to auto loader handguns in 9mm Luger. Large capacity weapons and the ease of reloading with magazines, compared with speed loaders, was another advantage.

This is not a commentary on caliber or recoil. An interested, determined shooter can learn to shoot a heavy recoiling caliber very well, with a lot of practice and motivation. But LEOs only have a limited time to train, unless they are SWAT, Hostage Rescue, or Seal Team 6. And they need to spend the majority of their time doing police work, rather than remedial training to handle large caliber weapons that they can't shoot well. FWIW, I understand that many LEOs are not shooting enthusiasts and do not practice shooting (for recreation as we do) other than mandated range times and qualification testing.

 

Back in the day, nearly all Law Enforcement Officers carried revolvers. At the time the 10mm was developed, bullet design was not where it is today. Today's defensive ammo has very reliable penetration and expansion, even after passing through layers such as denim and leather, making the 9mm Luger a viable LEO carry option. Stopping power back then, was considered to be proportional to bullet diameter, since the bullets of the day often did not perform optimally. They would often over expand, or over penetrate. Bigger diameter, more powerful rounds, were felt to be a necessary solution.

The 10mm is essentially a magnum that falls between the 9mm-38 Special-357 mag , and 11mm-44 mag. Law enforcement thought they wanted more power than the 357 mag, and few officers (Clint Eastwood excepted) could shoot the 44 mag well, or wanted to carry a revolver that big and heavy. It turned out that the 10 mm still generated more recoil than many cared for, and the revolvers were still heavy to carry. For that matter, very few LEOs shoot the 357 mag as well as they can shoot a 9mm. As service calibers became larger and generated more recoil, shooting proficiency qualifications fell. This was a problem as no LEO departments wanted to have officers many or even any, officers who could not qualify with their service arm.

The 357 Sig came later. It approximates a 125 gr 357 mag round and can be chambered in a reasonable sized auto loader handgun.

Revolvers are more difficult to shoot without a lot of practice. Qualification scores improved when departments switched to auto loader handguns in 9mm Luger. Large capacity weapons and the ease of reloading with magazines, compared with speed loaders, was another advantage.

This is not a commentary on caliber or recoil. An interested, determined shooter can learn to shoot a heavy recoiling caliber very well, with a lot of practice and motivation. But LEOs only have a limited time to train, unless they are SWAT, Hostage Rescue, or Seal Team 6. And they need to spend the majority of their time doing police work, rather than remedial training to handle large caliber weapons that they can't shoot well. FWIW, I understand that many LEOs are not shooting enthusiasts and do not practice other than mandated range times and qualification testing.

That is well written and comprehensive. Retired cop & SWAT officer here, firearms instructor as well, and a USMC veteran. I got to do a lot of shooting in my LE career and got to fix a lot of shooting problems. You're right, the 9mm is so very easy to shoot well compared to harder kicking semi-autos and magnum revolvers. Carried a 45 1911 for my entire career. Am starting to really appreciate a nice 9mm 1911 that I have now. So easy to shoot, and less expensive to shoot as well.

I like the 10mm, but don't own one. Keep flirting with the idea, but I've only been thinking about it for 30+ years. No need to rush into these things. Ha!

Regards, Guy

 

Hmm, perhaps I’ll pass on keeping it, but purchase it anyway to help him out and use it for trade. No matter how much I try to force myself to get into handgun shooting I always sideline them for rifles

 

"why the extra millimeter?"

 

9mm vs. 10mm, why the extra millimeter?

Why, indeed. After all, what difference could a silly millimeter make? Well, one millimeter means the difference between the 9mm luger and the 8mm .32 ACP, as well as the difference between the 10mm auto and the 11mm .44 Automag. Should we expect the difference between 9mm and 10mm to be any less significant?

 

 

Go up another MM, put it in a 1911 and you have the perfect SD round. LOL.

Padraig

 

The 10mm is on par with the 357 magnum, I have carried both while bow hunting in grizzly country.

The 9mm stayed at home.

 

Edwin Marshall and Sannow researched actual law enforcement shootings. That was back when revolvers were being used. They dispelled a lot of myths. 357 mag with 125 grain bullets was found to be the most effective. 9mm with hps was more so than the 38 special. 45 auto with hps not so bad, but with the 230 gr military load not so great.
The 10 mms were developed shortly after their studies were published. The 357 had a terrible muzzle blast and was hard for a lot of officers to control. The 40s are a semi auto pistols version of a 357. Shorter cases for an easier grip.
When I worked for cities I dealt with police depts. Most officers were not into guns and could shoot a 9mm. Anything heavier and they had problems qualifying. Seen a couple that did anyway. Ruger made a relatively inexpensive 9 mm. Many new officers would buy. We had a female officer that could not use one as the design was such that her finger had trouble operating the trigger. The 40 in the 1911 works because the gun is 10 shot straight stacked. The high capacity staggered magazine autos form a clumsy grip for some. The 10mm S&W is a shorter cartridge designed to accommodate higher capacity autos. Some smaller handed people can shoot a straight stacked pistol better than a high capacity due to the ergonomics of a smaller grip.
40s are still a handful and require a lot more practice. One I shot was louder and kicked more than a 45. I happened to get to shòot both out of a Glock. As to terminal effect the 45 is significantly no more effective than a 9mm. A 40 has only a small advantage.
That is on 2 legged use. For 4 legged use they are probably better.

DEP

 

Agree on the .45 I reload it and it is a great cartridge. much more versatile than some consider.

I do not have a 10mm but run several 9mm and a few .40 SW, and yes its just 1mm.........................

Think if I was wandering in Bear country I would shoulder holster the .44 Magnum

 

@Lost River Well said! People like to say that the 9mm is now equal to the 45acp because of new improved bullets and loads. They don't seem to realize that the 45acp also has new and improved bullets and loads, plus it makes a bigger hole. Nice looking 1911.

Padraig

 

I've personally never known anyone foolish enough to call a 45 ACP "underpowered".
Anyone who does is probably looking at velocity and drawing incorrect assumptions.

 

You can buy or load a .40 with HC 200 gr. bullets @ 1000 fps or more. Nosler must have intended the load for defense against two legged predators.

 

I believe that the difference in in performance between the 10 and the 40 is a lot closer than most people envision. With 200gr hard cast bullets I doubt there is much difference in performance. Either is going to penetrate very well.

Funny thing is I shot a good bit of 10 15-20 years ago. I have shot probably 15K over 15 years. I now find myself rarely shooting it anymore. The 40 has replaced it for my primary non rimfire range use. That and 45 colt. A 40 will do anything a 10 will do unless we are talking large critter such as brown bear but in that case I would want something bigger to be comfortable around them.

The other advantage that the ten has is performance at longer ranges. Making 50 yard shots? The 10 is a much better choice. I will never take a 50 yard shot at anything other than paper using a semi auto pistol.

 

The studies on law enforcement uses were based on actual records of shootings. They overthrew some old conceptions. Heavier non expanding large bores weren't as effective as thought. The studies included 45 Colt revolvers and 44 specials as well as the 45 AcCP. With the 230 fmj military load the 45 ACP did not have the knock down power believed. It was about equivalent to the 9mm fmj and little better than the 38 Special. Loads like the 185 gr HPs were very effective.
The FBI did their studies on 200 pound pigs.showed They came up with the lead 158 hp out of the 38 special which later transfered to the 147 9mm. Studies showed the 115 gr 9mm to be superior. Difference between use on 2 legged and 4 legged.

DEP

 

Occasionally you see these questions about calibers, personally I don't care for 9mm or 10mm I prefer the 11.43x23mm.

 

I started my carrer with a 1911 .45 acp. When I retired I bought a 1911 .45 acp. I carry WW Ranger T series ammo. A great round in a great gun.