it is all in what you want 18" is plenty to drop what ever you want 22" gives longer sight radius as well as a little more in fps, if you want a gg in ss 1895gs is what you are after.

 

My preferences would be: smooth wood; octagon bbl is very eye appealing, but would probably be a burden for hunting/carry; I like the straight lever look, but curved would probably fit the hand better for control... Still trying to figure it all out really. Do want a JM and smooth wood for sure. Other stuff is probably negotiable. I just can't get excited about the look of the Guide Gun/18" bbl...

 

Base on your stated preferences, I might suggest that you take a look at the 1895CB (cowboy) 45/70. I believe these are only JM stamped rifles. They are configured as follows:
1. Straight grip smooth stocks.
2. End cap on the forearm stock.
3. Square lever.
4. 26" tapered octagon barrel.

The 26" barrel gives them near perfect balance. The tapered octagon barrel gives you the octagon look with weight akin to a round barrel. It is a really awesome looking rifle.

The down side:
1. It is not as "quick" as shorter barrel rifles.
2. If hunting from an enclosed blind the length can be cumbersome to get out the window of the blind.
3. They can be difficult to find.
4. They cost considerably more than the guide gun.

If I hear you correctly on your personal preferences you will love the gun. I might suggest that you look around and see if you can find one to actually put your hands on. Maybe an MO member living in your area has one that you could look at. Hope you find the gun that suits you.

 

I went from 22" barrel to 18" under a warranty issue with a mis-bored barrel about 8 years ago. I prefer short rifles, so it was a natural choice and Marlin was good enough to accommodate. As for the .45-70 cartridge, my rifle is set up with open sights and is designed to be a 200-yard max elk gun/10-foot hog gun. With Hornady LeverEvolution ammo, I'm dead-on at 100 yards and would hold 4-6" high at 200 yards on a big bull. I don't think 4" of barrel is going to matter under 200 yards as the .45-70 hits with fantastic kinetic authority at those ranges. For my purposes, I'll take short and handy as a trade off to the 100-150 FPS I may lose in a 4" shorter barrel any day. Hard to argue with a 325 grain slug at nearly 1900 FPS in just about any situation I can envision myself being in.

 

Oscarflytyer, ------ With the ability of the 45/70 to be effectively loaded from "mild to wild", the short barrel will produce all the velocity you need in that rifle. -------- I shoot and carry a RUGER #1 with a 22" barrel which would be about equal to an 18" barreled Marlin in overall length. --------- That rifle is just Sooooooooooo great and handy to carry, I simply would NOT want anything longer! -------- Now, as per velocity and barrel length, when I first started hand loading for the 45/70, I approached it like every other centerfire rifle I had loaded for over the last 40 some years -----WRONG!!!!!!!!!!! ---- The 45/70 is a different cat and there is simply ZERO need to push for higher velocities. --------- This is not a long range hunting rifle as compared to say a 30/06 or 300 etc. and if that is your goal, well you will be better served by another caliber. ------------ For that reason, there is no need or good reason to dwell on higher velocity which may be attainable with lighter bullets, say those in the sub 300gr and up to those approaching 400gr. --------- You would be much better served with a good cast bullet with a Wide Flat Nose (WFN) and a weight of OVER 400gr reaching a velocity some where in the mid thousands. ----- I use a 465gr WFN at 1650fps and it is awesome on elk and deer, plus able to handle anything that walks the North American Soil. ----- Some jacketed bullets, for example the Hornady FTX - "gummy nose" are extremely fragile and destructive if bone is hit, while the very light for caliber Hornady homogeneous copper/gilding metal bullet is so light - well below 300gr - it would shed velocity and energy like water off a ducks back. ------ What is the point of a high starting velocity if the bullet will not retain the velocity and energy? ------ So, the short barrel length would be my choice and I'd never worry about the velocity as that barrel length is able to provide ALL you need providing your using a good bullet and more then you need with a bad bullet. --------- Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

 

Didn't someone do some testing along these lines a while back? If I had a chrono, I'd do a bit of experimenting for sure!

 

In general, that 4 inches (it's actually 3 1/2") difference will make about 60 fps difference (maybe 90 fps with "hot" loads)... IMHO not enough to make any real difference at typical 45-70 range. I would go with the 18 1/2" barrel for convenience in the field. If you just shoot at the range then get the longer barrel.

 

I posed that very question to Mic McPherson just a few weeks ago. His answer (condensed) was. In the 45-70 with top end loads you have to go to the 26 inch to see enough velocity difference to get excited about. there are other considerations, muzzle blast and felt recoil are chief. The short barrels are much louder, both to the shooter and the game;and,recoil is much worse, due to the huge increase in muzzle pressure that creates a situation where the jetting increase more than offsets the velocity decrease. My serious load in the 45-70 Marlin gains 61 fps from a 22 to a 26, loses about 78 fps from a 22 to a 18. Not going to make a 300 yard point blank gun out of it with any barrel length. Very interesting thoughts from a man with a wealth of knowledge.
JB

 

Like everyone else has stated, there in not much difference in performance so I'd buy what you like. If you can, shoot one before you buy it. I was lucky to have a friend with a straight stocked 1895 guide gun to try out, but after shooting it I bought the 1895GBL and love it. I've shot a bison @ 45 yards and a 180 pound boar @ 39 yards with it so far and can't wait to use it on deer this year. The .45-70 is a fun round to shoot. Good luck in your search and good shooting.

 

Interestingly when I switched from the 18" ported Guide Gun to the 22" 1895, the same ammo clocked about 170 fps faster through the 22" rifle.

A LOT more difference than I had anticipated.

I liked both rifles, but enjoyed shooting the 22" barreled version much more, partly due to the barrel length, partly due to the lack of ports, and I think the curved grip felt better in hand than the straight grip, while shooting. To me.

Regards, Guy

 

With arguments to be made for all lengths, I prefer the 22 inch as well. Compact enough in my 1895 and especially my #1' it is noticably more powerful than the 18.5 inch. The 26 inch CB, and 32 inch BC will always need weaker charges for accuracy because of the boost in velocity. For me, they all have their place. My favorite for hunting is the # 1. Moving around with less gun is the primary reason. I like the regular 1895 next.

The BC can beat the #1 in power because of the added barrel. Even with a lesser charge. It generally isn't needed for reasons stated by Coot.

Looking in my notes, the 22 inchers beat my GS 150 to 200 fps with upper end loads. With my pig load, 1500fps cast varies little between the barrel lengths.

 

ok folks, just throwing in a penny's worth right now but from what i am seeing here and from what i have read otherwise(thanks to the input and direction of a bunch on MO);is that 18 1/2 to 22 is negligible for muzzle velocity UNLESS the shorter barrel is ported.only noticeable difference would be 24" or greater barrel length. and, as the good doc has pointed out,one would have to REDUCE the powder charge to maintain accuracy because the increased barrel length would already pushes the MV up significantly. plus the longer barrel would probably make it unwieldy in a dense brush situation.i have to agree with ruger. handle them both and see what feels right for you. We have so many knowledgeable members here with a vast store of experience that it can darn near drive a rookie loopy(i am looking in a mirror as i say this lol):shot: personally i have a ltd II with a 24" barrel (octagon) and have gone for a walk in the brush with it but i am a bull in a china shop. the brush does snag on the longer barrel when you try to swing it around.:hmmmm:

 

Were you to be using a RUGER #1, even with it's 22" barrel, I believe you can match anything in the velocity department, possible from a longer barreled Marlin because of the higher pressures safely possible in the RUGER. ----------- However, as I attempted to point out earlier, this is a cast of greatly/rapidly diminishing returns with the only possible benefit being in a slightly flatter trajectory. ------------ We are talking about achieving un-needed velocity levels.----- But, as I have mentioned in other posts, I have seen the damage/size of wound channel from a Cast 355gr. WFN at a muzzle velocity of just over 2300fps and have no desire to see that again. -------- For a non-expanding bullet, it made a huge hole ----------- The advantage here over one of the fragile jacketed bullets was the fact that the hole was not a big mess of minced meat, it was just a very big hole. ------ On the other hand, the 465gr WFN at the rather sedate pace of 1650fps is Ooooooooh so good in it's game taking abilities without the damage caused by the WFN 355gr cast or the expanding jacketed bullets. ----------- That velocity or close to it should be an easy velocity level to reach with any legal barrel length on a Marlin with cast bullets in the 400 + grain weights. ------------ Choose the barrel length of the rifle that feels best to you, as the difference of real life, in the field, velocities won't make a nickels worth of difference. ----- Short and stubby still gets my nod! ----- Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

 

CDOC i agree with you on the 400+ grain on a personal experience at the range vs the 325 ftx. 405 gr sp remington out shot as in tighter group than the 325 ftx. group size with 405 both iron sights and scope was 1/2 the size at 250 fps slower and the ftx was consistenly shooting high. i'd rather shoot a solid slug any day.:flute:

 

MV gains +/- have been explained, I my self like my 1895 Cowboy with the 26" octagon barrel for the sight radius and ballance. The MV gain is not much but every bit with a 45-70 does not hurt. The difference in recoil is not much. The only drawback is the added weight and that too is not much but feels to be a lot after walking long distances just like on any other rifle. I personally like to shoot the bigger pills and the added weight probably helps lessen the recoil.

 

Hmmmmm...I may well be talking out of turn here, and I may well upset some folks, but if I want (intend) to go out and shoot an animal at over 150-yards away, I'm going to take my .308 Win or .338 L with their 20-35 x magnification scopes, sit down real still with them sat on their bipods and drop those beasts!...However, if I want to go out and have a blast and to kill any and I mean any, creature on God's earth that is within 150-yards of me, I'm going to take my .45-70 Marlin, 18.5" barrelled XLR (that I've recently had chopped down from 22") with it's Leupold 1.25 x 4 x 20 VX-R Patrol FireDot scope sat atop and KNOW that it's gonna hit em where it hurts and hit em hard!...18.5" or 30" barrel...300-grain or 405-grain slug...don't matter none to me...150-yards or less, it's dead...and you can't get "deader" than dead...end of story! :-D

 

janott i am jealous of your CB. it's what i was looking for before i got the LTD II. still looking just can't afford one right now.leezie i agree under 150 yards 45-70 is going smoke anything out of the water and most thats in.lol a whale might be about the only thing it won't take out and i am not sure about that even!

 

FPS doesn't kill....Accuracy does ! I tested a few load from a ported GS up to a 22" 1895......less than 100fps on the few rounds I checked. Forget everything you thought you learned about higher velocity being better. Buy the gun that has eye appeal to you and fits your need if any. Now be content to work with what you purchased. Its guaranteed to be enough gun for what ails ya !

 

i hunted with an 18.5 barrel, then bought a 22 inch barreled rifle and had it cut to the perfect length for balance and looks. 20"

 

Kinda figured the bbl length had little to do with a caliber like the 45/70. You guys have confirmed that. I just don't care for the Guide gun w/ 18". Just looked chopped off to me... My 336s are 20" - wish the '95 was made in 20"... oh well... Prob go with a 22" 'cause I like the looks of it better. I do, however, like the looks of the LTD - a lot!

 

I will throw this in: I have an 1895 with a 22" ballard barrel and I am currently using 405gn hard cast, flat nose bullets at 1450fps (I really don't see going above 1550, if that) because as CDOC remarked, a 45-70 dosen't need 5000fps to get the job done. I have shot a lot of jacketed bullets too but these hard cast hunks of lead just hit and keep on going. I have used the 22" barrel in thick stuff hunting bears and it is not too long. It handels and points well and is manuverable if you need to change direction. I have never shot a short barrel, in fact I have never seen one for sale. Apparently the folks who have them like them and keep them. If you can find one, they should have no problem providing the velocity I am getting. If you can't find a short barrel, these 22" barrels will work fine, too. I also have a Ruger #1 in 45-70 but I haven't worked with it for loads. I have used factory 405gn JSPs with it on hogs and they have never complained. Shooting big and ugly things is what the 45-70 was made for.

 

look on armslist there was an 1895 cb for sale under a $1000 ARMSLIST - For Sale/Trade: Marlin model 1895 Cowboy 45/70, JM marked barrel!

 

I went the other direction on barrel length. This is now 16.5 inches, Leupold 1.25-4 Euro scope, Warne QD, action job, after market shoulder pad and VERY important lesson learned - rail for light attachment. The Buffalo Bore ammo with the Marlin 45-70 worked. Grizzly in camp did save on guide and hiking. My friend is holding the rifle based on lessons learned.

 

She had just finished her first time shooting it from Cowboy to serious Buffalo Bore loads and enjoyed them all and shot well with it at 15 yards - or decide distance.

 

I shot my three jacketed bullet loads in both a 18 1/2" Guide Gun and the 24" XLR. Five shot average velocities are listed.

300 JHPs were 2031 in GG and 2127 in XLR
350 JFPs were 1933 in GG and 2018 in XLR
405 JFPs were 1838 in GG and 1910 in XLR

For what it is worth, I sold both and am shooting the 22" standard 1895. I prefer the pistol grip and the look of blued steel. However both the GG and the XLR had a better recoil pad than the std 1895.

 

I mostly hunt coastal rainforests for Columbia blacktail deer = when I carry a 45-70 it is either my 18.5" barrelled 1895GS or my s/s 22" barrelled T/C Contender carbine.

I wish both had shorter 16.5" barrels if they did I would carry them a lot more.

I like short barrels so much that I am now also looking for a 15" s/s handgun barrel in 45-70 for my Prohunter rifle (yes it is legal to install that barrel onto a rifle here in Canada) I figure that will be my ultimate go to 45-70...

Due to a hearing loss as a child I always wear moulded hearing aids that cut sound off at 85dbl so have no issues with a louder report from a short barrel.