I did a test like that when I bought my rifle twenty years ago and had similar results. I shot a few hundred pretty much at the max published load from the Hornady manual as the groups tightened up for me with that load. I got tired of the recoil and feel that a heavier bullet works better so I have since switched to a moderate 405 cast load almost exclusively for the last 15 years or so and have been much happier not beating up the rifle and myself.

Not sure where the Henry stacks up for being able to handle the different loads but without knowing I would assume it would be lumped in with the modern lever action data intended for the 1895.

 

I just loaded up a ladder with 250 gr barns TSX and 4198 a couple of days ago. I have not made it to the range yet. Since Barnes is no longer making the 250's so I may buy some 300's and work up another all copper load next. Not the same bullet but should be in same ball park. I am interested in what others have to say. I have some nice plinking loads with cast in 300 gr and 405 gr. These will most certainly be effective on white tail but I am anticipating future laws restricting lead bullets for hunting.

 

You can use the Hornady 250 MonoFlex which shoots 2,330fps from my 18.5" SBL, or try the Hammer bullet 250gr.

 

Velocity should be much higher. I posted a thread about this a while back. I was over 2,100 FPS at 52.0 grains.

Going stout with the 45-70 and IMR4198

I have a couple loads for my Marlin 1895G and 1895SS. The most common on my shelf is an RL7 load behind a Hornady 300gr HP traveling at around 1,850 FPS. It’s plenty stout but today I hit the range with some much hotter loads. Backstory. It’s been touched on a time or two here but not delved...

www.marlinowners.com

 

I have no way of knowing if my chrono is accurate, but that's what I was getting. The barrel on my Henry is 18.5", whereas most test barrels are 22" or so.

 

@NickMc - gee, I wonder where I got those 250 TSX's

 

I have a 1895 Cowboy with 26” barrel that loves 50 grains of Imr 4198 and 300 grain Hornady. I am a little over 2100 fps. The same pill traveling at 1850 is more enjoyable to shoot and everything is just as dead.

 

Man you guys load them stout. I've never checked load data for Speer 300 grainers as I only load 47gr of IMR4198 with

Hornady xtp 300gr slugs. Don't own a chronograph and probably never will. All I know is that a hundred yards this is what I get. And about the same distance a couple weeks ago I dropped this buck. Don't think my shoulder would like anything hotter.

 

What was surprising to me when I did the tests is the significant variation in load manuals when it comes to 45/70 and IMR 4198. Each manual is using a different ceiling for the pressures the lever gun gun category is capable of handling. Even though Hodgdon lists 57.2 gr as a max under a 300 gr bullet (sierra specifically), I didn’t dare go that high. 52.0 gr was an absolute wallop on the shoulder off the bench.

I did it out of interest and stayed in what I felt was a safe range based on multiple load data sources. I found a heavy load that was very accurate, loaded up some boxes to have, and stored them away. I definitely wouldn’t use them on a regular basis. They will certainly wear out a gun much faster and stout loads are only necessary in very few applications with the 45/70. The big bullets moving slow satisfy all of the hunting I currently do.

 

In another older thread there is a long discussion about the .45-70 and the use of +P loads and what could considered safe. There is even discussion regarding the use of the deep cut 'V' threading on the Marlin at the junction of the barrel and receiver, accounting for the space the magazine takes in relation to the ramping and chambering of rounds. Most posts cautioned against the so-called +P loads sighting the fact the Marlin receiver is a more hollowed out 336 receiver to account for the rim on the .45-70 case designating the 1895 as the weakest action of all lever actions (vs. the Win 1886 or even a Win 94 Big Bore). All good info and consideration when reloading our favorite pet loads. Much has been said about the Hodgdon reloading data and the use of the IMR 4198 which is one of the more popular powders used in reloading the .45-70. The starting grains for a 300 grain bullet is 53.7 grains. The published velocity for this load is 2297 fps which produces over 3500 ft.lbs of ME which is more than significant. But, the CUP is 33,000 providing a correlation to PSI which I calculate to be around 32,000. I think we can trust Hodgdon to have done the right thing in being accurate with pressure indices. Using other data such as Lyman (Speer has limited bullet weights) maximum loads are less than the minimum Hodgdon load data. So, which is correct? If a shooter wants to go light and be accurate it appears the 405 grain at around 1300 fps is a good choice. But, if you load lighter bullets you can still start out with velocities in that 1500 fps range and not even get close to any pressure issues and your rifle should last a long time.

 

I settled on 51.5 gr. of 4198 for the 300 gr bullets but was really confused by all of the different information out there.

 

It does get confusing. You being settled on the 51.5 grs. of IMR 4198 sounds like a wise choice. I may decide to go even lighter to get a 1700 fps using the old Lyman data. For deer this is way more than enough and if I ever decide to hunt something bigger I can always go back to the heavier 'starting' load. Thanks for your post.

 

Brian,

Just picking up this older thread,

Great work testing accuracy and fps along the ladder. You have found some lser fps accuracy "Nodes".

4198 is in the fastest burn range of powder options which should support the shorter barrel. You should find one more node at a highe velocity with the shorter barrel.

My experiences with subsonic to max load development, regardless of cartridge, suggests you should find one in the 2,100-2,200 fps range and the shorter barrel should be able to reach it.

Keep an eye on pressure signs and move up the ladder. 😀

Look at the load data guides in the link. "Hodgon, IMR, Winchester Load Reload Data". 55.3 is the listed max. You have room. BTW: select the 45-70 lever gun in the cartridge options.

load-data-and-reference-links.628262

 

Hodgdon says for Marlins the max load with 300 grain Sierra is 57.2 grains of I4198. I could not imagine the pop that would give me out of my rifles. 50 is way more than I need and 38 grains out of my Handi rifle at around 1800 kills them graveyard dead.

 

The Hodgdon data was derived in a 24" bbl. If you're shooting an 18.5" bbl, or less, then you can expect a significant drop in velocity. My SBL will shoot at least 150fps slower than the velocities posted for the longer barrels. Barnes data was also developed in a long barrel.

 

I've enjoyed following along with this thread. I don't reload, but I have used 300gr loads to hunt (only 1 buck) and have 3 different flavors on hand now. The load I used for my Kentucky buck in '19 was loaded by a smaller company and rated at 2100 FPS. As you'd suppose there was full penetration on that buck.

The two other loads I have are the run of the mill Remingtons that run about
1850 IIRC and a warm load from Underwood at a claimed 2400fps, which is about as fast as I'll ever need....LOL.

2019 buck. Exit side.

 

In my 1895SS .45/70 made in 1996, I load the 300 grain TSX with 50 grains of IMR 4198. I get an average velocity of 2186 fps. Fed 210 primer, R-P Brass, 2.515 COAL.

 

That's moving them out. LOL I limit the 300TSX to 2,000fps where they are impressively accurate in my SBL. For a fast (flat) load, I like the 250gr MonoFlex at 2,330fps.

 

I have never considered maximum velocity or pushing guns to their limits to be the best answer. I push mine to the most accurate loads, not the fastest loads. Rarely are the fastest loads also the most accurate, so if a load is 200-300 fps faster, but not accurate it's worthless to me Shot placement and accuracy are the two most important things when loading for hunting loads. At least for me.
I love 4198, and it is the most used rifle powder in my loading.

 

Ditto

 

I am shooting 425 grain BTB pile driver juniors at 1600 fps. easy to shoot....goes through everything, but it's a rainbow at 200 yards.

 

IMR 4198 at 48.8 grains with Sierra #8900 300 grain will get you 2050 fps dead center at 100 yards all day long. I used the Sierra reloading specs because I was disappointed with the Hornady 325 FTX rounds and Hornady specs.

 

When I had my 45-70 trapper i started at 48gr and ran up to 50gr, which wasnt much fun in that rifle. With XS sights I shot clover leafs at 50yds. That 300gr Hornady seems to like 4198. 50gr in my CVA scout and the 300 giving same tiny groups at 100yds. I nudged up to 51.2 and will see what the chrono has to say. The CVA for me is a lot more comfy to shoot so mapping is far less painful lol.