First off, welcome to MarlinOwners. The 44 makes a great first Marlin. Now to your questions.........and mine.

A) Have you slugged YOUR bore? Do you know it's oversize?

B) What ammo have you shot in yours? How well did it do? And what sighting system are you using, i.e., Buckhorn sights, peep, or scope?

C) Do you reload?

There are oversize bores out there, but not as many as you might think. They get more ink because they are an anomoly, and require special feeding. When shooting cast boolits, slugs that are .001-.002" over groove diameter shoot best in most rifles. Jacketed bullets don't need to be oversize.

Cast boolits (if you reload) are available in assorted sizes, including .432". You won't find commercial ammo with oversize slugs because there isn't much demand, but more because in a gun with a tight bore, a hot load becomes an overpressure load. And the factories have lawyers and insurance companies and stockholders telling them that that is a Big No-No.

 

I know that everyone suggests slugging the bore

Im affraid of getting something either stuck or broke off at that point
It hard enough to keep wire brushes frpm coming appart on the cleaning rods
let alone push something hard down thru

 

Thanx for the welcome!


A) Have you slugged YOUR bore? Do you know it's oversize?

No. But when I can loosely place a commercial cartridge up to the case inside the muzzle of my rifle, I am begining to believe it is a bit larger than .429.

B) What ammo have you shot in yours? How well did it do? And what sighting system are you using, i.e., Buckhorn sights, peep, or scope?

So far I have shot, Remington 240gr. SP, Mag Tech 240gr. SP, Hornady 200gr. HP, Hornady 225gr. Leverevolution and Hornody 180gr.. (edit) Open /buckhorn and red dot, sites so far. Accuracy is moderate at 50 yards but spray and pray at 100.

C) Do you reload?

Not for many decades. And I am not all that interested in starting up again, hence my inquiry for commercial loads. I think I will sell it befor reloading again.

 

Deke, find a piece of soft lead to use as a slug. Pure lead is the softest. Got any swaged bullets? They do find for me.

94/44: You didn't mention what kind of results you got, or what sighting system. The better you can see the target the better you can hit it. Hence ALL my Marlins wear glass. I can't see Buckhorn sights worth a foop. And I'm not the only one.

Putting a commercial cartridge up to the bore isn't a very accurate way of determining anything. Some bullets are of two diameters......what's inside the case is bigger than what's up front. Hence the need for slugging, so you can measure the groove diameter, as well as the land diameter.

If your quest for fatter bullets is in the interest of accuracy, it would behoove you to first determine the baseline of what it can do, then work on improving it from there. We'll be happy to help any way we can. Between the many assorted and over-the-hill members of this forum, we have a little over a billion years' experience.

 

Papajohn, this is a micro groove barrel. If "oversized barrels from the factory" are not as common as I have been led to believe,.... then,... can I assume oversized barrels are a fault in quality control and Marlin will re-barrel my rifle?

 

It can't hurt to ask..........but you'll still have to slug it to determine if it actually is out of spec.

Oh, BTW, I got some .432" cast boolits, and they didn't shoot one whit better than the .430 and .431" boolits I'd tried earlier. How good/bad is your gun shooting?

 

I don't undersatnd how Marlin can let this be such a previlent and long term QC problem. I have read threads by guys claiming oversized barrel problems for decades.

Just a wild stab,.... but I guess oversized barrels in micro groove are more finicky.

 

"So far I have shot, Remington 240gr. SP, Mag Tech 240gr. SP, Hornady 200gr. HP, Hornady 225gr. Leverevolution and Hornody 180gr.. (edit) Open /buckhorn and red dot, sites so far. Accuracy is moderate at 50 yards but spray and pray at 100."


Papajohn, why did you try .432? What is your barrel diameter? Mirco or not?

 

When I slug a 44 bore, I use a .451 or .454 round ball for a cap n ball revolver. I'll start it out with a short starter for a muzzleloading rifle, then once it's going down the barrel a regular cleaning rod will work. After I get it all the way through the barrel, I've got a 0-1" micrometer that I use to measure the high spots on the ball giving me my groove diameter. Easy enough.

 

When I slug a 44 bore, I use a .451 or .454 round ball for a cap n ball revolver. I'll start it out with a short starter for a muzzleloading rifle, then once it's going down the barrel a regular cleaning rod will work. After I get it all the way through the barrel, I've got a 0-1" micrometer that I use to measure the high spots on the ball giving me my groove diameter. Easy enough.

Agreed, slugging isn't Rocket Science,... but what good does it do for someone who does not reload, when there are no options on commercial load diameters?

 

It seems simple enough to me. If you want to shoot lead you need to know the bore dimensions. You then need to pick a few diffent bullet diameters to try. This will help determine which shoots best in your rifle. If you do not reload, you will need hire someone to do it for you. Otherwise, you will need to bite the bullet, and shoot jacketed.

 

Have you looked into any companies that load for cowboy action shooting?

 

I'm a new guy also my 1894 is 30+ years old shoots .429 bullets just fine, but correct me if I'm wrong but aren't all the new 1894's Ballard rifled and not micro?

 

It seems simple enough to me. If you want to shoot lead you need to know the bore dimensions. You then need to pick a few diffent bullet diameters to try. This will help determine which shoots best in your rifle. If you do not reload, you will need hire someone to do it for you. Otherwise, you will need to bite the bullet, and shoot jacketed.

I would like to shoot lead,.... but it's not my priority, especially not at the exspence of setting up to reload.

All I am interested in is getting some 2 or 3 inch groups at 100 yards. The jacketed ammo I have used is not doing it, so I figured with all the talk about oversized accuracy with lead,.... I might get the same results with oversized jacketed. But oversized jacketed commercial doesn't seem to be an option either.

 

Have you looked into any companies that load for cowboy action shooting?

No I haven't. Seems to me, all "cowboy loads" are loaded down a bit. I pack guests on horse back in the Az. backcountry. Loaded down ammo isn't what I need,... lots of bear where I pack.

 

I'm a new guy also my 1894 is 30+ years old shoots .429 bullets just fine, but correct me if I'm wrong but aren't all the new 1894's Ballard rifled and not micro?

I'm not sure, probably so.

But my rifle is a 1996 model.

 

94/44,
Don't worry about the Micro-groove vs Ballard rifling debate. Makes no real difference.
I can't hit the broad side of a barn at 100 yards with my 44 Mag without a scope, with glass its a MOA rifle.
#1. Be honest about your sighting equipment. I noticed you have not mentioned that part of the equation.
#2. Please slug the bore, or have it done for you, before you blame the bore for oversize. The oversize problem is not that bad, just overblown with hype like the Micro-groove vs Ballard rifling debate.
#3. My rifle shoots 300g bullets into 10" vs 240 and 200g bullets into MOA at 100 yards when I do my part. For bear protection, I would load with 300g cause thats a 50 yd or less propostion.
Just my $.02. YMMV
CF
By the way, my 1894 is Micro-groove and the best group I ever got was with cast lead.

 

94/44,
Don't worry about the Micro-groove vs Ballard rifling debate. Makes no real difference.
I can't hit the broad side of a barn at 100 yards with my 44 Mag without a scope, with glass its a MOA rifle.
#1. Be honest about your sighting equipment. I noticed you have not mentioned that part of the equation.
#2. Please slug the bore, or have it done for you, before you blame the bore for oversize. The oversize problem is not that bad, just overblown with hype like the Micro-groove vs Ballard rifling debate.
#3. My rifle shoots 300g bullets into 10" vs 240 and 200g bullets into MOA at 100 yards when I do my part. For bear protection, I would load with 300g cause thats a 50 yd or less propostion.
Just my $.02. YMMV
CF
By the way, my 1894 is Micro-groove and the best group I ever got was with cast lead.

I'm not. Just interested in getting the best out of this rifle. I think it can do better. I did post above about sites,... only tried the open sites and a red dot so far. You are correct about 50 yards and less. I would just like to know I can count on it at 100yds, if need be.

 

I shot this Thursday 205 gr cast bullet either wheel weights or linotype cast 10+ years ago sized to .429, peep sight no rest at a 100 yds. I'm an old guy, bad eye sight, but I'd bet that at 50 yds off a rest this would close up greatly. Its a 8" bull & the front sight completely blacks out the target.

 

Well thanks for all the input/conversation. If anyone ever comes across a factory load that has some options on bullet diameters,... please post it. So far, Hornady seems to be the only manufacturer that advertises a .430 projectile.

Y'all seem like a nice bunch of guys and I look forward to further info sharing,... who knows, maybe I'll start working up some loads again and have to pick some brains here.

Thanx again,
94/44

 

There is a really good article in the 1989 gun digest by Paul Matthews (for the oldtimers that keep all this stuff)talking about this oversize bore condition in Marlin 1894 rifle....
Says you can't really load a larger diameter slug because the act of putting the bullet in the case will size it down also.
Best to use a medium to fast powder to size on ignition.
Even if you are not reloading, it's good to slug the bore ...... a restriction near the chamber would become evident.

 

There is a really good article in the 1989 gun digest by Paul Matthews (for the oldtimers that keep all this stuff)talking about this oversize bore condition in Marlin 1894 rifle....
Says you can't really load a larger diameter slug because the act of putting the bullet in the case will size it down also.
Best to use a medium to fast powder to size on ignition.
Even if you are not reloading, it's good to slug the bore ...... a restriction near the chamber would become evident.

Thanx,... sounds sensible. Would this work with jacketed as well?

 

Perhaps you should just buy a box of .44 Special lead loads, or what ever you can find, and try them. Take a peek after a few rounds, and see if it's leading. If it is fire a couple of jacketed loads. You have nothing to lose by doing that. Perhaps the loads you are thinking about shooting will shoot just fine.

I agree that Marlin should address it's barrel quality, and also the slow twist in the .44 barrels.

 

Perhaps you should just buy a box of .44 Special lead loads, or what ever you can find, and try them. Take a peek after a few rounds, and see if it's leading. If it is fire a couple of jacketed loads. You have nothing to lose by doing that. Perhaps the loads you are thinking about shooting will shoot just fine.

I agree that Marlin should address it's barrel quality, and also the slow twist in the .44 barrels.

Please excuse my ignorance,... but what would the above procedure accomplish?

 

"So far I have shot, Remington 240gr. SP, Mag Tech 240gr. SP, Hornady 200gr. HP, Hornady 225gr. Leverevolution and Hornody 180gr.. (edit) Open /buckhorn and red dot, sites so far. Accuracy is moderate at 50 yards but spray and pray at 100."
Papajohn, why did you try .432? What is your barrel diameter? Mirco or not?

I tried the .432 bullets because I wasn't happy with the accuracy I was getting with smaller bullets. I have no way of measuring the hardness of the slugs I use, and I like to experiment. Accuracy wasn't horrid, but I don't quit looking for ways to improve it until it shoots as well as I think it can. Or as well as it has with other bullets. Given all the potential variables involved, this was a quick way to see if the bullet diameter might be a factor. I don't think it was, I think it's more a question of matching the powder and velocity to the gun.

As for sighting equipment, if someone over 35 told me they could shoot good groups (under 4 inches at 100 yards) with open sights or a red-dot, I'd be amazed. I have glass on all my Marlins, and it still takes good ammo and a solid bench technique to get me under three inches at 100. I've done it, but it's not easy. And the older your eyes get, the harder it is. In my 20's, I could shoot pistol groups under an inch at 25 yards. These days, I'm amazed if they measure under three inches!

My 44 is Ballard-rifled, but it's the only Marlin I have that is. The other four are Micro-groove, and they all shoot better than the 44. Marlin wouldn't stick with Micro-groove if it didn't work, and the results of many here prove that it does. They've used it since the early 50's. If it sucked, they'd drop it like a hot potato. Do some research, and you'll see WHY it's better. Gripes going back "decades" tell me that a lot of people don't understand how rifle barrels and bullets need to be well-matched to shoot good groups. Complaints about oversized barrels are legion.......and often serve more as an excuse for inaccuracy than a desire to seek out what works. Easy answers are rare. Testing ammo is expensive, tedious, and requires the best conditions, with the best sight systems. Open sights and red-dots don't get used much for testing, with good reason.

You seem firmly convinced that your gun has an oversize bore...........based on WHAT? Decades of allegations by unsatisfied shooters, who may or may not have even measured them? Your concerns about an oversize or out-of-spec chamber and bore are unfounded until you KNOW they are.

Until then, this is all conjecture.