yes i have done it, splits the brass 90%

 

My late FIL used an old, nearly inoperable 1886 Winchester (it may have been an 1876, but he insisted it was an '86) in 45-60 for years in the 1920s and 1930s to kill squirrels at very close range with 2 1/2" 410 shells. They wrapped the shotshells around the circumference several times in old newspaper. You do what you have to do.

He didn't have much good to say about range or accuracy of the practice.

 

While at a farm sale when I was knee high to a grass hopper, I saw a single shot break open gun that was marked .410 or .44 something. I wanted that gun something awful but my Dad said "nope". :eating:

 

My older brother has a 410 single shot break open rifle. It folds in half and slips into a soft case that came with it.... He has had it since he was 6, he's 52 this year. I dont know if it was new when he got it. I always wanted that little 410 but he said "nope" as well

Doc

 

The .410 you are talking is a bird ammo no? here in portugal is the smallest hunting caliber allowed.

if that's the ammo you are talking about, those are lot cheaper than the factory loads available here, and a good way to get familiarized with the mechanism of the gun???!!!

 

Why not just use 45-70 brass and make your own shotshells. Over the powder I use a gas check cup side toward the powder and another one cup side facing the shot charge and a third one on top cup side down and then a good roll crimp with a die I had a machinist friend make for me that is just a tapered cone hole for use with many different calibers, and vola! a shot shell that really fits the chamber. Maybe it's not as good as a 3" 410 but as good as a 2 1/2" and no splitting brass.

 

Why not just use 45-70 brass and make your own shotshells. Over the powder I use a gas check cup side toward the powder and another one cup side facing the shot charge and a third one on top cup side down and then a good roll crimp with a die I had a machinist friend make for me that is just a tapered cone hole for use with many different calibers, and vola! a shot shell that really fits the chamber. Maybe it's not as good as a 3" 410 but as good as a 2 1/2" and no splitting brass.

I do about the same thing with 45 Colt brass in my S&W Mountain Gun, usually the first chamber or to when I'm woods walking. Sure make a awesome snake killer. Took a bunny with it once too. (real close, dumb bunny) Can load them up agin too!

 

I've heard it can be done for years too.

My take is that just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done.:flute:
I don't!

 

I don't think i can start reloading, or if i'm willing to do so, because of the burocracy that is needed. Here we need a permission to buy the components. it must be requested on our national police, but we are only allowed to have a small ammout of powder and starters. I'm still waiting for the permission to lift my 1985 out from the store, and i phoned today to the main services of the police, that said to me that the local police didn't send some papers that are needed, and that without that papers they can't send the permit to be emmited by our national press, that afterwards has to send it in a registered mail to my adress, meaning i delivered all the papers three weeks ago, the police officer needed to come to my home to see if i have a safety (because i have more than 3 guns of the same category), paid on the act 116,10 € for that (i live less than 1,5 km from the police station) and the officer took 1 1/2 week to manage time to come here. And when i call to the main services they say that those papers are still missing!!! The hell with them!!
And you still complain about your weapon laws!!!.... (just kidding), but i'm just very disopointed with all this!!!

sorry about the complaints but i don't think it's fair to have to wait that much time for one thing that is so easy to do.

thank's

 

Not to get off topic, but it isn't so much that we complain about our gun laws as that we are resisting any further restrictions. There are those in this country who would like to make our laws look like yours. Good luck with your struggle.

 

In Spence Wolf's book on the Trapdoor Springfield 45-70, he has several specialty loads for the 45-70. One of them is a shot shell load using nitro cards. I made up several of these and found them fine for very short range. The lack of choke in the rifle coupled with the limited charge weight really restricts the effective range.
He also has a neat load using three round balls.

 

I used the 2.5" 410 in a, 1972, 22" marlin with micro-groove barrel. They spred quickly but took some pine grouse and pheasantsat under 20 yds. When the 3" shells were tried they stuck in the chamber as the shell opened up to 3" and was in the barrel. 2.5" worked fair through the lever and were still under max. OAL of 2.55" for a 45-70. Never split a case and some cases were hi base but most were short walled brass. Years ago in China town south of Butte, Mt. I found a 45-70 shell with cast 405 gr. head with 3/4 oz of #6 shot under it. Hunter was ready for bird or deer. Thought then about a shot shell and tried the .410. Worked. First shell in chamber with half cock safety for bird or snake then hunting shells in tube. Only other trouble with the .410 is failure of the ejecter claw to grab the case enough to remove it every time. Rare occurrance but it happened. Hope this helps. Have fun and bangaway.

 

Maybe I'm a bit to stiff and narrow in my views but I do have this thing about shooting the right rounds in the right guns.

 

Me too.

 

i don't think i would take a chance of messing up one of my 45/70s ill just buy a 410 shot gun or a 410 barrel for my contender

 

The case head of .410 is the same as a 45 colt, but not the 45-70. To get a little bit better shot pattern in a shot shell out of a 45-70, start with 45-70 brass, use .410 shot powder data, and after the powder, put in a .410 shot cup filled with 7-9 shot that is wrapped with one layer of a 3x5 card type of paper. Then using 1/8" thick cork that you cut to fit into the case, cover the end, crimp lightly and seal with wax.

 

Dakight, i'm not saying you aren't right, cause i think you are, i was only saying that here the laws turned from 8 to the 80 here!!!!! some eyars ago, my father loaded his own shell to hunt hunt small birds (i think you call them robin) he loaded 300 or 400 shells on wednesdays (to hunt on thursdays) and 200 or 300 on saturdays (to hunt on sundays), meaning several thounsands of shells loaded and shoot on each season. when laws changed that wasn't possible anymore and my father and many like him almost quited hunting.

I wrote those lines because the chasings on the laws over here are one of the reasons that makes people to quit this hooby/sport/excuse to go to nature, that me<ns so much to me and each one of us hunters/nature lovers.

sorry if i ran off toppic.

 

I had brought it up in discussion before and had decided to try it myself! The ammo loaded and fired fine but did not eject due to a smaller diameter head!

 

It is apparent that a lot of the replies to this thread belong in a "Reloading" thread somewhere. My question asked for a simple "Safe or Not?" reply. The answer ( for those that understood the question) was SAFE:flute:.

 

or---not!!

 

biri - your comments are much appreciated. They should be made known to every soul in this country. Of course, there are those here who wish the same for the likes of me.

 

I've tried it. I cut down a 410, removed cup and shot, put it back in the plastic upside down. Used the 410 powder charge, put the plastic combo in, sealed it with wax. It worked, but very short range.. S'pose if enough of us called Speer, they'd make a proper sized shut cup ??

 

I've shot 44 mag snake loads out of a FMJ singleshot 410/45 Colt derringer pistol and they worked good. They are not loaded to 44 mag 240gr pressures and a lot less recoil than 410 shotshells. I can imagine the 45 colt snake loads would work better. Maybe try the 45 Colt snake loads in the 45-70. I can imagine all this is for survival type situations when all you have is a 45-70 rifle and 410 shotshells to get some tree rat brunch. I would think a 45-70 loaded with powder/carboard wad/shot/overshot wad would work better and could be constructed even if you had to use a newspaper wad with wax to seal the end. If I needed to shot shot charges or 3-5 ball loads, I'd use a 410 shotgun with the OO or OOO buckshot loads. My little Rossi 410/22LR combo will put all 3 or 5 buckshot on a paper plate out to 25 -30 yards.

 

My cousin, as a youngster in New Mexico, shot .410 loads in his dads trapdoor. He said it would work on rabbits if you got close enough. I have .410s and 45-70s and don't mix ammo, lucky enough to have that choice.
FM