"Cowboy"=lead bullets (looks to be coated with some kind of lube) and low velocity...about 38special-ish. The word "Cowboy" must be worth more than "high velocity jacketed"?

 

I will relate my experience using retail cowboy loads in my 1894c, yours may vary so don't take as gospel.

When using retail cowboy loads (I believe designed for pistol use) I experienced some leading in the 1894 but not the Blackhawk. They will attain higher velocity in the 1894c and I did shoot hot jacketed loads prior to the cowboys so may have been some copper in the barrel that enhanced the leading. (had just got the rifle and was in a hurry to test it out) Took a while but did manage to clean the lead out, though have not used retail cowboy loads since as I now load my own.

I use 4.2 grains of Unique behind a 140 grain LRNFP and no longer get any leading though is a very mild load.

As far as don'ts, recommend not using wadcutter types as can lead to feeding issues, they will feed in mine though occasionally will hang up and need an assist to chamber. Wadcutter types are fine in a Blackhawk.

A lot of good info in the 1894 section. If you run into issues, most often you can fix yourself with guidance on this site.

PS., may want to look into reloading, I can usually find supplies at gun shows or online and reload COWBOY style loads for less than .20cents a round. the 1894c is known to be a hungry breed.

 

I would just keep firing .38 specials...I have used both .357 and .38 special in my 1894c and GP100. I have not had any problems with either load and the .38 specials are more readily available around here and a lot less costly. Reloading is on the horizon...

 

Cowboy loads are intended for Cowboy Action shooting. To be acceptable for Cowboy Action all bullets must be soft lead only, since the targets are steel plates in one shape or another. Jacketed bullets and hard cast can penetrate the steel plates, and/or ricochet back toward the shooters. Since ranges are short,(maximum is usually 25 yards for the rifle targets), the loads are usually 800-900 fps. Some competitors load even lighter loads, referred to as "powder puff" of "bunny fart" loads.

 

Ya fergot the mouse-fart loads!!! Silent without a silencer.


Wingspar: Load your own 38 for that Marlin. That won't save you any $$ but you'll shoot more!!!

DD

 

Underwood ammo has good prices

 

"Cowboy" loads are basically defined as ammo used in Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS) as sanctioned by SASS (Single Action Shooting Society).

ALL bullets MUST be of lead. No jacketed ammo or gas checks either.

MAXIMUM velocity of any pistol ammo can only be 1000 fps (most shooters seem to prefer their ammo to be around the 650-800 fps range.)
MAXIMUM velocity of any rifle ammo can only be 1400 fps (and if the same ammo is used in the rifles, the velocity will increase appropriately)

There are also guidelines as to the caliber of ammo you can use. And yes, .38/357 is legal. All legal rifles have to be of a pistol caliber, such as .32, .32-20, .38/.357, .44 Special/.44 mag., 44-40, and .45 Colt.

And there are guidelines as to the minimum power factors required for your ammo.

Thats basically it concerning the ammo.

Congrats on your new Marlin.


..........Widder

 

Thanks everyone for the info. After I posted, I looked up this ammo on the Fiocchi site and it leaves the muzzle at on 700 fps. That’s slower than most .38 Specials. That’s the last thing I would have expected. The chances of me actually participating in any cowboy action is pretty remote to not at all. While it might be fun, the distance to travel to such an event is a bit much from where I live. I should have another 250 rounds of .357 arriving before the 1894 does, so I might just hold onto this stuff for a while. I have a little over 2,500 rounds of .38 Special, which is hotter than this .357 cowboy load. The box does have the SASS logo on it.

I gather they do not use AR 500 steel at cowboy shoots if they are worried about penetration?

As for the reloading. It’s something I’ve never had an interest in. I did consider reloading shotgun shells once when the shotgun I bought turned out to be too much for my shoulder, and light loads were more fun, but hard to find. I decided I didn’t enjoy shooting shotguns that much, so passed on the reloading. I will admit that if I was going to start reloading, the .357 would be an excellent cartridge to start with.

 

Wingspar,

I don't know about your immediate area (within 100-150 miles) but there are a few Cowboy clubs in Oregon.

There are SASS affiliated clubs in every state, including Alaska and Hawaii, Europe and Australia. And probably a few more places.

Yes, alot of the clubs try to use 400-500 AR steel. We put A LOT of lead on those plates each month/YEAR and we need them to last without pitting or bowing on us.

Even if you don't reload.....save your brass. Unless you are already 70+ years old, you could very well get into reloading in your life time.

Good luck on your future endeavors.


..........Widder

 

I’m on the south coast. Albany is the closest SASS range I know about, and it’s a good 5 hours one way. I’ve read a lot about it, and talked to people that work on the range in another forum, but for me, that’s too far to go. I’ve planned on going to their machine gun shoot for the last couple of years, but we never go cause neither of us wants to make the drive.

I’ve got AR 500 steel I pound with 5.56 up to 7.62x54R from 50 yards, and it’s taken thousands of rounds and still looks good. I use one side for hand guns and one side for rifle.

At 67 I probably have a few years of reloading in me, but it’s a huge investment to get started and I really don’t have anyplace to set up a reloading bench. I started watching hickock45's reloading videos last night to see what might be involved. Single stage or progressive stage press. Progressive would make more sense. As for brass. I keep it all. I have well over 100 pounds of brass, but I doubt there is more than 100 rounds of .357 and it’s all mixed in with .38 special.

 

Yes, don't throw away your brass. Us reloaders will be glad to purchase it from you. I'm always buying brass to reload.

 

You can get into a decent reloading setup for under $200, dies and all, if youre savvy. Sell a few things, grab some oregon trail lasercast round nose 158s, a pound of unique and a brick of primers and youre all set. If you plan to shoot in ANY quantity, you really need to seriously consider rolling your own. Besides, its so satisifying knowing you dont have to pay through the nose for factory fodder or wait in line for your "ration" when the delivery truck comes in, that you quickly forget about any funds you expend on components.

 

reloading is a great hobby and you can spend the winter months loading ammo, impatiently awaiting the warmer seasons to go shooting in addition to the massive savings

I’ve done a lot of reading and watching videos on YouTube in the last day or two. It looks like once I’m all set up, it will be loads of fun, but there is so much I don’t understand. I’ve seen enough about the Unique Powder that I think that is what I will use if I do this, but one thing I never new is that primers come in different sizes and different uses within those sizes. Only thing I plan on loading should I do this is .357. CCI primers seem to be the most popular, so which primers would I use?

As for press’s. Lee or Dillon or...

The Dillon 550 seems to be the press all others are judged by, but it looks like it will cost over $700 for initial investment. Lee Pro 1000 looks like it has some of the extras of the Dillon as standard equipment for under $300.

I don’t hunt, so everything will be general target and plinking.

 

reloading is a great hobby and you can spend the winter months loading ammo, impatiently awaiting the warmer seasons to go shooting in addition to the massive savings

 

Sure, if you can afford it, the Dillon 650 is highly popular. But, I shoot ALOT and I load most of my ammo on a Dillon Square Deal B. And some of it I load on a single stage press.

PRIMERS: CCI is good. But if you ever have your firearms 'tweaked' and the springs are set up good and smooth, you probably should use Federals.

Most of the Cowboy shooters I know prefer Federal primers because they ignite easier with modestly set hammer spring strengths. BUT for the record, I have also used CCI for YEARS with absolutely no issues.

For the .38/.357 case, you will want Small Pistol primers. Personally, I don't think it will matter if you use the standard or the Magnum primers.
I do prefer the magnum primers, especially in colder weather. You could get variable opinions on this, based on the experience of others. You won't go wrong either way.

Good luck. This forum can supply you with alot of useful info.


..........Widder

 

I took another look at the Dillon Square Deal B, and that looks a lot better price wise. Still over $400 by the time I added accessories, but much cheaper than the 550. So the Square Deal B and the Lee Pro 1000 are the two on my list at this point in time till I learn more.

Now, as for the components. Primers and bullets seem to be available, but powder? Looks like finding powder will be like trying to find .22 LR. If components aren’t going to be available, this might not be a smart purchase. Thoughts?

 

I load and shoot 38spcl Ranier plated double ended Wad Cutters in my 1894. They cycle fine and give me 2"-2.5" @ 50yds.

 

There are two or three SASS clubs in the Medford and Grants Pass area and one in Yreka. There is a club in Florence that shoots on the 1st Sunday of the month. The Umpqua Regulators shoot in Roseburg on the 4th Sunday, March through November. A shooter from Gold Beach shoots with the southern Oregon clubs and also comes to Roseburg and Florence when he can.
I have reloaded for several years with a Lee turret press, but I don't use the progressive function. Lee provides a lot of value for the $, as far as I'm concerned. I load .357/.38 using mostly Federal small pistol primers and have had great results with MagTech primers also. I use 3.5 grains of Bullseye behind a 125grain cast bullet in both .38 and .357 cases. This is a clean burning load and a pound of powder=2,000 rounds. PM me and I'll be happy to provide you additional information.
Vic

 

I thought there might be something in the Medford area, but I never get over there. Do you have to be a member of any of those clubs to participate?

I’ve been doing some research on components, and it looks like powder might be a road block. The research I’ve done so far points to Alliant Unique as being a very good all around powder. Also my research so far turns up no powder in stock anywhere, which is not a good sign.

 

You can get all your answers to reloading online. I've been reloading for over 40 years, and can't imagine not doing it. I started out with a Lee Loader. It didn't even have a press. We loaded using a hammer. After that I bought a Single stage press, and I'm still using it today. I load for a lot of different calibers, but my first reloading was for 357. Straight wall pistol cases, are the easiest to load. Buy carbide die sets, to eliminate lube process. I just bought 500 cast bullets for $30. --that's 6 cents each. Primers were $27.--per thousand, that's less than 3 cents each. Powder was $35. per pound----or 7000 grains. At 5.0 grains per round,--- that's 2.5 cents per round. What's that-----------11 cents per round, not counting brass. By using brass, over and over, it's difficult to calculate the cost. I was at a gun show, a month or so ago, and bought some bullets for $22. for 500. Some guy hand cast them, but at that price, I can use them for plinking. Last summer I saw a complete reloading outfit at the flea market, for $100. and it had 4 sets of dies. I got it for a friend, and let him have it for what I paid for it, and I keep 2 sets of dies. Don't go crazy over all the fancy stuff, basic loading equipment will last a life time.

 

It’s easy to get hung up on all the fancy stuff, but I’m not going to rush into this. I want to see how much I’m going to shoot the 1894 before I get too deep into this. The Lee Pro 1000 looks like a good press for little investment. As for the die material. I don’t know about that. This is the first I’ve heard of how and why lube might be needed. If I can pay a little extra for carbide die sets, that sounds like the way to go. The Lee Pro 1000 does not say what kind of dies it comes with. The Dillon Square Deal B does come with Carbide Dies.

The cost of the components makes reloading very attractive, and it looks like fun, but the availability of components, particularly powder, might make me step back and think about it a little more. I don’t really have any place to set the equipment up either. I can set it up in my shop, but I’d have to take it down and put everything in a box when not using it.

One question I can think of is can one load both .38 Specials and .357's with the same press, maybe adjusting only the powder?

 

Wingspar:

Good question about powder.
Some of the popular powders have at times, been scarce the past year or so. But I have started seeing these powders back on the shelves more recently.

If you already have a good reloading manual, it will give good info on the types of powder options you have, depending up the type and weight of bullet you prefer to use.....AND the velocity ranges you are wanting out of your reloads.

For Cowboy loads using .38 special brass, I like Clays. But, I also like Bullseye, Unique, American Select and Vitavouri.

For some of my HOT stuff in a .357 case, I like LilGun, H110 and AA9.

The amount I use is dependent upon the bullet weight I use for that particular load.

Good loading Manuals will be priceless in helping you learn and understand good reloading techiniques and some of the DO's and DON'T's in reloading.

And when you start trying to make good decisions on a particular type of powder or powders, always feel free to seek 'opinions' from all of us on this forum. Then after you get all those 'opinions', double check the reloading manuals to either help verify that info or run away from it.....

..........Widder

 

I don’t have any reloading manuals yet. I was going thru a thread on another forum about the “Best” reloading manual, and you can guess that in two pages, few agreed on the best one, but most agreed that more than one manual is good. The ABC’s of Reloading and the Lyman Reloading manual both seem to be popular. Ordering them is easy, but I’d like to pick just one to start with.

I’ve learned enough about Alliant Unique that I think I would like to start with that one. hickock45 likes it, and one of the reasons that he likes it is because of it’s bulk. Because it is a bulky powder, it is easy to see the powder in the case and it is difficult to impossible to accidentally double load a case because it would spill over. It seems to be a popular powder. Experimenting with loads isn’t something I’ll do for a while. I just want to stick fairly close to factory loads to start with.

 

If you are trying to stay on a budget I would recommend the Lee Classic Turret press. Midway has them for about $225 in kit form that even includes the manual. I don't think they include the dies now but used too. I've used one for years and have been very happy with their products in general and they are usually a very good value in relation to some of the other name brands. The also have a single stage kit for about $125. Buy your dies and supplies and you are good to go. I've reloaded 38/357 for years and while Unique is my go to powder for them, I have also used Green Dot for midrange loads and H110 and Blue Dot for hotter 357 loads. There are lots of powders that will work well in that caliber.

If you are going to get just one manual, get the Lyman!

 

I'd have to agree on the Lee Kits. Since you don't yet know how much reloading you're gonna be doing, and you don't know if you're even going to enjoy doing it, I would recommend that you keep it as inexpensive as possible to start. The Lee Classic Turret kit is a good place to start. It's totally functional and you can easily do 200+ rounds per hour through it. You pick up something like that from Midsouth Shooters or Factory Sales and you'll be ready to load (it comes with a scale and other goodies). As others have said, you're biggest challenge right now is going to be powder. I can find primers and projos with no problems, but powder is the biggest issue right now.

Good luck with it and don't forget that there are a lot of us with a good deal of reloading experience that you can bounce questions off of. Don't forget to get at least one reloading manual. Since you are leaning towards lead bullets, I'd recommend the Lyman reloading guide. They cover lead better than any other out there...

 

Buy a few things at a time. You'll develop likes and dislikes. Meanwhile, you're still shooting the cheap stuff, and building a brass "stash". I prefer nickel cases. Maybe you got some friends, that don't reload, that might give you their once fired brass, or you can buy some once fired brass. Lee products are good, and I have a couple sets of their dies, but I like RCBS, better. Hornady and RCBS are very much alike. Redding powder throwers, are some of the best equipment out there. When I started, I used Lee dippers to measure powder. I like Hornady hand primers, they let me feel the primer going into the case. I get a lot of my loading data, from LoadData. com. Powder manufacturers, often offer free load information, on their web sight. Since the powder shortage started, reloading has increased by more than 25%, but in the long run, I think it will benefit all of us. I have found small out of the way gun shops, that do have some powder. I like Unique, Alliant 2400, Lil Gun, Red Dot, Trail Boss, in that order. In the mean time, just read, and seek experienced reloaders recommendations.

 

I watched some videos on the Lee Classic Turret press to see how it worked, and even watched how to set one up, but I think progressive presses have more appeal to me. I’m not one for buying kits, and I’d rather have a digital scale vs the beam scale included in that kit. I’d like to start with something that will last my lifetime if I continue with reloading, and have a good resale value if I decide not to continue with reloading. For now, I’ll probably bounce between the Lee Pro 1000 and the Dillon Square Deal B. I know there are other brands out there, but I haven’t looked at any, or seen any recommended.

I just ordered the Lyman Reloading Manual. That will get me started on the learning curve.

 

I would have to agree to go out and purchase the ABC's of Reloading and a new Lyman 49th edition and read as they have allot of good information.

As for presses they run from cheap to very expensive and from simple to complex and from compact to needing a good deal of room. So the best way to start is to figure out how much you will actually shoot.

If you plan to only shoot say 2-300 rounds a week the Lee Classic Cast Turret press will get the job done. They are a very good press for not allot of money and can be used as an automatic indexing press and as a single stage press in seconds.

If you wish to have something you can just throw in a small box kit the Lee Hand Press is good but slow. It all depends on what you wish to accomplish.

If you plan to shoot say 500+ rounds a week then the Dillon would be the press to use. But as you did state they are not cheap by any means but they do hold there value pretty well as they have probably the best warranty in the business.

This is just my own thoughts. Many people may tell you to get a single stage press or the RCBS Single Stage Rockchucker. And it is a good press but they are overly expensive and pretty much out of date in what they do. I started with a single stage press and by golly I wished when I started out I was informed about the Lee Classic Cast Turret Press. Since I am not a high volume loader the Lee Classic Cast Turret press is all I use now for everything from pistol to rifle.

 

I would have to agree to go out and purchase the ABC's of Reloading and a new Lyman 49th edition and read as they have allot of good information.

As for presses they run from cheap to very expensive and from simple to complex and from compact to needing a good deal of room. So the best way to start is to figure out how much you will actually shoot.

If you plan to only shoot say 2-300 rounds a week the Lee Classic Cast Turret press will get the job done. They are a very good press for not allot of money and can be used as an automatic indexing press and as a single stage press in seconds.

If you wish to have something you can just throw in a small box kit the Lee Hand Press is good but slow. It all depends on what you wish to accomplish.

If you plan to shoot say 500+ rounds a week then the Dillon would be the press to use. But as you did state they are not cheap by any means but they do hold there value pretty well as they have probably the best warranty in the business.

The Lyman 49th edition just shipped today, so I should see it sometime next week. 200 to 300 rounds a week is more than I will shoot. I may be lucky to shoot that much in a month, but I won’t really know till I get the 1894 in my hands and out to the range. .357 isn’t something I enjoy shooting a lot of in a handgun, but I’m sure the 1894 will be a whole different experience. Tracking says it was delivered at the LGS this morning, so I’ll give them some time to get it logged in, and go pick it up this afternoon. We won’t have any kind of break in the weather for a few days, so I won’t get to shoot it right away. (While typing this, the LGS called and said it was in and I could come pick it up).

I am leaning towards the Dillon Square Deal B. I was watching a video yesterday about changing calibers on this press, and it looked complicated. On the 550 it looked like the Tool Head Plate could be removed along with the powder dispenser and replaced with another one for a different caliber in a matter of seconds, but it looks a lot more complicated with the Square Deal B. For now, I just want to load .357 and maybe .38 Special, but .45 ACP reloading capability would be nice in the future. That’s another caliber I don’t shoot much due to cost. I do know I want a progressive press.

 

You really need to take up reloading if you're going to do much shooting. You can get started for about $100, or a couple of boxes of those cowboy loads. Geez, .38 Spl indoor loads with a swaged lead bullet used to be the cheapest centerfire stuff you could get.

Anyway, I'd suggest a single-stage press to start with, progressives can turn out a lot of ammo fast, they can also turn out a lot of BAD ammo fast if you're unfamiliar with the process. Lee has several such for cheap, or haunt the shows for used equipment. Around here, .38/.357 dies regularly turn up for about $20 or so. I have a reloading kit with a Lee Hand Press that I haul along on hunting trips, all needed items fit into a short toolbox. I usually have components and dies for .38, .44, .204 and .223 inside. I can load on any level surface and the Lee Hand Press is quite capable, with the right case lube, of full-length sizing rifle brass. On occassion, Lee will run a kit price that includes their reloading manual.

If space is a concern, I loaded for many a year in a small apartment using a Co-Ax press mounted to baord clamped to a B&D Workmate, the whole works fit into a closet afterwards. A full-size bench setup would have been nice, but not really mandatory. I set up my shotshell loader the same way along with the case trimmer and bullet sizer.

If you DO get into reloading, I'd suggest using .357 brass for all your loads, you'll have no question of malfunctions due to short brass and there will be no crud ring to clean out of the chamber afterwards. The books don't explicitly say so, but any safe .38 load can be dropped into .357 brass with no problems at all.

Stan S.

 

Part of the reason I would like to start reloading .357 is the cost and availability of .357 ammo. There is none to be had locally, and ordering it online is very expensive.

I’m pretty remote, so no gun shows or gun stores anywhere within a days drive from here that stock any reloading stuff. I know I want a progressive press that automatically advances the cases, but you can use a progressive press as a single stage press by just loading one case at a time, and I’m sure that’s exactly what I’ll do at the beginning and you can load the case at any stage of the reloading docks in order to get powder throw right and even check bullet seat depth without any powder or primer.

Space is an issue, and I don’t know where I’m going to set it up yet, but I did see a video where someone bolted their press down to a piece of wood that they could clamp down to a solid surface when they were using it, so that’s what I’m going to try and do.

I know the .357 case can be loaded light, down to cowboy loads if I want to, and that is part of the appeal of reloading .357. I don’t have much .357 brass right now, but have 200 rounds on the way. I have a decent amount of .38 Special brass, but I also have about 2.5k rounds of factory .38 Specials to shoot yet.

 

Wingspar- The SASS clubs I'm familiar with don't require that you belong to SASS to shoot in their monthly matches and I'd be willing to bet that several folks will offer to loan you anything you might need, including guns, ammo, leather and encouragement! Going to a SASS match is like going to a family reunion- except you'll like everyone there.
Vic

 

Should I go to an SASS match, Albany would be my preference. My 1894 is at the LGS waiting for me to pick it up, so expect to see a new thread with photos later on today.

I won’t consider going to an SASS match till better weather, and I’m on the prowl for a Ruger Blackhawk in .357, so I should have everything I need by the time I go.

I didn’t know what cowboy loads were till earlier in the week when I took delivery of 100 rounds. I was just trying to get some .357 here before the 1894 arrived. I’ll shoot a few rounds of it, but I’m going to save most of it just in case I do go to an SASS event. Unfortunately, I only have about 50 regular .357 loads, so I’ll be shooting a lot of .38 Special in the meantime, or get into my other half’s stash of .357. :biggrin:

 

Wingspar,

You will find that shooting the 38 or 357 out of a rifle is a FUN experience! I shoot more 38's out of mine than 357. The 38's are like a shooting a big .22 rifle with little recoil or noise, especially if you use light 38 loads. The light 38's are so quiet out of my 24" barrel that I don't generally wear hearing protection when shooting them. But then that would be closing the barn door after the horse has already bolted anyway.

 

I did find the .38 Specials pleasant to shoot, and I have about 2.5k rounds, so will probably shoot a lot of it. I robbed some .357's from my other half’s stash so I could shoot some .357's out of it today and have 200 rounds of .357 that just shipped today. As soon as the .357 is available again, I’ll order even some more. Build up some kind of stash and have some brass on hand should I decide to reload. The .38's had a higher impact than the .357's did. That’s something I’ll have to get used to and get used to adjusting to. I’m sure I’ll shoot more .38's than .357's for a while since I have so many of them.