Comparing the .35 and .356 is notable and the .356 should be reintroduced as a better chamber and headspace alternative to the wrinkle they headspace the .35 on. Them two are pretty much the same as bullet wgt and speed are concerned.

Comparing either to the .375 is notable but then if you kept the 200 gn bullets the .375 though leaving the muzzle faster will drop like a rock sectional density being the killer. .375 comes into it's nich with 250gn and above.

Most foolish thing Marlin did was chamber it with the fast twist bbl instead of the slower twist of it's twin the 38-55 it was not needed and impeded the performance of the high intensity loadings.

 

a 356 will push the 200gr faster than 2300fps. I can get 2300+ from the 220gr. speer with 46grs. of 4064. Some get more with other powders. The 35 +p is close but it's still no 356. The 375 with 200grs at 2500fps is way over the top. I wouldn't want to be around the guy using that load. Not saying it can't be done but not around me !! As Swany said the sectional density is not so good either.

For the $$$ value the 35 rem is a good deal but you could bore & chamber a 30-30 to 356 easy peezy lemon squeezy :-X

John

 

For those of use who shoot nothing but factory 200 grain loads, the 356 Win is the absolute best choise of the three; hands down.

 

For those of use who shoot nothing but factory 200 grain loads, the 356 Win is the absolute best choise of the three; hands down.

Not disagreeing with you but that is only based on power. There are other criteria that could determine the "best." Accuracy? Economy? Availability? Matching the cartridge to the game being hunted? Versatility?

Lots of things to consider other than raw power.

 

Lots of good campfire discussion!

Now for the reality check - NO measurable difference between the 3 on game under mastadon size at normal sub-250 yard levergun ranges.

I've owned & shot all 3 as well....my preferred choice: my 336 ss-ltd in 35 Rem with 18 1/2" barrel, xs sight & scout scope, launching 200 grain pills at measured 2109 fps & consistent MOA shooter....BUT.... have several 38-55's & a M-375 just in case!

 

It seems you've arrived at the logical conclusion of the .35Rem in a Marlin among the three choices of Marlin rifles. (I didn't know that about the .375, thanks Swany.)
The .35Rem is hard to beat within the normal range limitations. Now if the 94 Win Big Bore is thrown in chambered in the .356, it represents a step up in power (not quite to .358Win standards, but close). The .356Win SAMI specs are 52,000CUP, same as an '06; however, the Marlin action was not designed to handle those pressures. My 94BB easily clocks 2350fps with a 220FN Speer and will send a 200gr bullet about 2500fps. That being said, my .356 is not a Marlin and I still prefer my 336D when hunting Whitetails. I also get 2100+fps with 200gr Cor-lokts out of its 18.5" BBL.

 

The .356Win SAMI specs are 52,000CUP, same as an '06; however, the Marlin action was not designed to handle those pressures. My 94BB easily clocks 2350fps with a 220FN Speer and will send a 200gr bullet about 2500fps. That being said, my .356 is not a Marlin and I still prefer my 336D when hunting Whitetails. I also get 2100+fps with 200gr Cor-lokts out of its 18.5" BBL.

I would be very surprised if Marlin released the 336ER without the expectation that it would be used with SAAMI-spec 52KCUP ammunition. The advantage of the Winchester BigBore is that is can be safely loaded in excess of the SAAMI-specs, at least according to people such as Paco Kelly. With the Marlin action, I would not be hotrodding the 356Win and would question the value anyways.

Regarding the equivalency of 52KCUP in the 356Win with the 30-06, I found this brief discussion... I haven't read it or researched the topic enough, but it's food for thought:

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,7071.msg148623.html#msg148623

I really enjoy this discussions and like the analysis done by the OP. Whether I agree doesn't matter because as far as I'm concerned, I've tried hard to convince myself that the 356Win is an improvement over the 35 Rem --- that way, I can justify to my wife why I need to keep both my 336SC and my 336ER!

 

My own illogical contribution is that I have hunted with the 336/35 enough that it is THE rifle that I prefer to hunt the thickets and creekbottoms of my part of Louisiana with. I have a m-375 that is unfortunately STILL unfired. But I have several loads to try. I have never had or even shot a 356 but have killed between fifteen to twenty deer with the 358. There is something about a medium bore bullet at moderate speed that kills game with authority. I agree with the poster that said you could probably not tell the difference in the field between those cartridges mentioned. But even if they were compared for lethality by an impartial user for the next twenty years under like conditions I would still think that I "need" to do my own research into the matter. I feel that it is my obligation to future generations to puchase, shoot/develop loads, and hunt with as many Marlins as my budget will allow so that my children will have the advantage over the others of their generation who insist that only long barreled bolt-action magnum rifles are sufficient for shooting whitetail deer at woods ranges is the only way to go. Therefore, I will continue to hunt with any caliber that makes sense to me and pass my beliefs and experiences on to any and all who will listen that they might know that the BEST rifle to hunt with is a leveraction Marlin.
Now, have I been illogical enough or should I ramble on?
Goat

 

Good morning
The older I get (60) I get more amazed at how an increase of 100-150 FPS is looked at as being so important. Corn crunchers and bean eaters will still fall victim this year to whatever reasonable chunk of copper or mere lead that gets poked through the breathers at any reasonable velocity all the way down to about 650 fps.
I understand the desire to see just how fast you can get a projectile to slice through the atmosphere. 1971-74 I got to sit at the firing controls of a weapon that would fire a 37mm projectile at 5000fps. Impact at 1 mile was near instantanious and spectacular ! But the wear factor of that round on the 105mm m68 gun was 5x´s that of the standard high velocity anti armor round.
Even a Marlin 1895 will stretch and parts compress under enough and constant battering. Once your majestic laser light show is over you will be the proud owner of a past fine shooter that hopefully no other unsuspecting shooter gets tricked into buying.
If you need a magnum rifle buy one. Marlins are strong well designed and tough but they they do still have limitations.

 

There is no real need to keep both the 336SC and 336ER, the ER can be downloaded to 35 Remmy speeds all day long. Of course, no need to tell your wife about that ;D

 

You could just go with my theory: Own and enjoy them all. If you don't have them all it gives you something to shoot for. I will admit I am growing fonder of my .375 all the time. I have deer kills over 200 yards with it and the deer are DRT. It is noticeably lighter than my .35. reflex264

 

There is no real need to keep both the 336SC and 336ER, the ER can be downloaded to 35 Remmy speeds all day long. Of course, no need to tell your wife about that ;D

Mike, you're not helping me ;D ;D ;D

Actually, there is another reason to keep the SC --- it's old enough to have Ballard rifling vs. microgroove and it's absolutely the smoothest operating Marlin I've ever cycled. It's a 1950's vintage which I bought from a fellow whose dad owned and hunted with the rifle. It has the fathers initials lightly engraved on the top part of the lever (hidden when closed), and although I didn't know the man, it was obvious he cared for his firearms --- I'm actually kind of proud to have it in my collection

 

AND since you prefer to keep it in your collection, you need the 336ER to insure that the 336SC does not get worn out - does that help?

I do know that if I tell my wife anything other than the "real reason" - it will come back to me - and I don't like that. Always the truth!

Jeff
NRA L

 

Kind of a post script: When I was a kid, my dad had an old Lyman #42 manual from 1962. I was fascinated with the 35 Winchester cartridge. Now that was a cigar! Some of the first reviews I read on the 356W, compared it to the 35 Winchester. I was hooked and had to have one. I didn't own a Marlin levergun at that time and found a NIB Winchester BB94 in 2002. I have not been at all disappointed.

I've never known anyone with a 35 Remington who thought they were undergunned, even for Moose.

I liked the progression in the OP which I interpret as: the 35Rem shines at 200gr, the 356W will really smoke a 200gr and struggles with the 250gr by comparison, and the 375 shines in the 250gr arena. These are not light target items, but full-dress hunting loads. They do overlap, but in a friendly sort of way.
I love my 356W, have a feeling for the 375W, and the 35Rem is pure nostalgia - make mine a 1949, like me!

Jeff
NRA Life

 

It seems you've arrived at the logical conclusion of the .35Rem in a Marlin among the three choices of Marlin rifles. (I didn't know that about the .375, thanks Swany.)
The .35Rem is hard to beat within the normal range limitations. Now if the 94 Win Big Bore is thrown in chambered in the .356, it represents a step up in power (not quite to .358Win standards, but close). The .356Win SAMI specs are 52,000CUP, same as an '06; however, the Marlin action was not designed to handle those pressures. My 94BB easily clocks 2350fps with a 220FN Speer and will send a 200gr bullet about 2500fps. That being said, my .356 is not a Marlin and I still prefer my 336D when hunting Whitetails. I also get 2100+fps with 200gr Cor-lokts out of its 18.5" BBL.

Evidently the Marlin will handle 52,000CUP. That is what the 375 Win is rated at and the Marlins can take that.

 

Hello George, you may be right about the Marlin .356; however, I've never read that the action was strengthened like the "MX series" (.308MX, .338MX, and 450MX) by increasing the thread "pitch". I know the cases of both the .356 and .375 are made thicker than comparable cases made for levers, but only Winchester made their receivers thicker (BB series) to handle the extra pressure (same in their Winchester Timber rifle in .444). I believe the part number for the .356 is the same for all Marlins for that cartridge length, which has led to several conversions from .35Rem to that caliber without regard to strength.
If all the Marlin actions have the same designed strength, than any 336 should be able to handle pressures up to 52,000CUP if the case is designed for that pressure standard (thrust being comparable). Paco Kelly does not give give this capability to the Marlin, at least in the .444, and publishes much higher pressures for the Winchester 94 Timber carbine in the 50,000CUP area and the Marlin to about 44,000CUP for safe functioning.
While I cannot imagine Marlin taking a chance on marketing a rifle that won't take SAMI specs, especially with the legal problems that would ensue, I find it interesting that an action that is held to 33,000CUP in one cartridge (.35Rem), and then 44,000CUP in the next (444) is allowed to go all the way to 52,000CUP without a "hicup" unless the action has been strengthened or "modified" in some way.
George, I'm not challenging your statement of fact, since it appears Marlin did market such a "high intensity" cartridge in what has always been regarded as a "medium intensity" rifle. It would seem to indicate that the action is different from the "norm", or the standard action is far more capable of handling higher pressures if "high intensity" (read thicker and stronger) cases were made available. Regards, Riley.

 

Howdy rilely,

The Marlin M375 is indeed a regular 336 receiver in all aspects. The 450, 308MX, and 338MX are the only modified receivers using the V threads instead of the traditional threads of the 336 so far.

The 336 receiver will handle the .375 at sami specs with the case thickness indeed playing some role in that. I have read that the 336 receiver has been proof tested to 60,000 PSI but can't find that document right now. I have shot .375 Win ammo in my 336 CB 38-55 with no problems. I don't recommend this but have done it myself. Lot,s of 336's have been rechambered and rebored to .375 and are usually available most the time on Gunbroker. Have never heard of one failing.

 

It is noticeably lighter than my .35. reflex264

? now there is a reason to open my safe!
cw

 

Owning a 336 .35 Rem, a 94AE .356 Win, a BLR .358 Win, and a 35 Whelen. If I had to choose on to keep only one it would be the .35 Whelen. I can download, I can upload and never worry about what game I had to shoot with it. Second choice would be would be the .358 Win, third choice would be the .35 Rem and since I also own a 32 Win Special I think it might be my third for lever rifles. Shoots just beautifully and with the new Hornady leverevolution round is no slouch.
I owned a .375 Win and sold it because It won't do the things like I wanted it to do. It is no comparison to the .356 Winchester you can get 2450fps out of the 200gr Hornady bullet, 2350 out of the 220gr Speer bullet and 2134 out of the 250gr Speer bullet and you can't do that with a 336 .375. I tried and never could do it.
If I lived in Alaska I would only own .356 and up.


"fk"

 

fk;I
own a 760 35Rem.,Win. 94AE. 356win., BLR. 358win. I'm loading 200gr. FTX. bullet in my 356win. How did they work in your 94AE. 356win.? The BLR. uses 225gr. GameKing and the Rem. 760 35Rem. uses 200gr. PSP. with accuracy.

 

I match the Hornady Data for ftx, brass, primers seem just fine. I am going to edge up a little bit and see if I can get to the 2500fps with the ftx round. If so I will quit there. It becomes a .358 in sheeps clothing. I just love the 220gr Speer round a real thumper. 2300fps with the 94 AE is the most accurate round I am shooting so far. I hope the 200gr ftx at 2500 will be as accurate as the 220gr Speer. If so don't know if I will hunt with anything else except for my 336 .32 Win special. Don't know if these two are the best but awfully close.
Guys when you use Modern Reloading don't forget they are using 24" barrels and the 336's are 20"


"fk"

 

I love and shoot all three calibers alot! HOWever I must come to the defense of the pickup / truck...yes the guns are surer killers on hogs than the truck...but none of the guns have an muffler/ smoker to make jerky on while u drive!!

 

I have a number of .35 Remingtons and have had much success with them, but I also had two .35 Remingtons rebored by Regan Nonneman of Nonneman Custom Rifles...they were rebored to be .358 Winchesters. By the way, the .356 Winchester and the .358 winchester are virtually identical…one just has a rimmed case, but you can use the same reloading dies for each. The only issue I ever have with them, is that my customized Ruger Tang Safety 77R kicks way less than the 336C does in that caliber…the Ruger is a real *****cat by comparison...in a gun that is the same length and weight.
You do not shoot the rebored .358 Winchesters with only a T-Shirt on.

I tried to post an image of them next to each other, but the website will not allow it...no idea why.

They also edited p_s_ycat...very strange.

I also have a box of .356 ammo that is of no use to me...but they get a good price lately for a box of them.

 

I have a number of .35 Remingtons and have had much success with them, but I also had two .35 Remingtons rebored by Regan Nonneman of Nonneman Custom Rifles...they were rebored to be .358 Winchesters. By the way, the .356 Winchester and the .358 winchester are virtually identical…one just has a rimmed case, but you can use the same reloading dies for each. The only issue I ever have with them, is that my customized Ruger Tang Safety 77R kicks way less than the 336C does in that caliber…the Ruger is a real *****cat by comparison...in a gun that is the same length and weight.
You do not shoot the rebored .358 Winchesters with only a T-Shirt on.

I tried to post an image of them next to each other, but the website will not allow it...no idea why Try shrinking and or trimming off excess to reduce the size of the photo.

They also edited p_s_ycat...very strange. The MO software recognizes p u s s y as slang for a vagina.

I also have a box of .356 ammo that is of no use to me...but they get a good price lately for a box of them.

Try the above. Ed

 

Two issues...the 220 grain speer bullets are not made for deer hunting...they are made to penetrate big game...such as moose and elk, but they do not open up well on deer.

They will work on deer, because the bullet starts out the size of most bullets after they mushroom...but they are not made for deer hunting, whereas the 180 gain Speer Jacketed Flat nosed bullets have a thinner jacket and are made for deer.

Secondly, my Customized Ruger 77R is the same length...as is the barrel...of the Marlin 336C.
I also have two Marlin 336A guns and they sport the 24" barrel with the Ballard rifling.

You simply cannot touch the .358 Winchester with the .35 Remington...even with the longer barrel models.

The .358 Winchester is a sweet spot for the .35 caliber, and ballistically you are hard pressed to notice any difference between the .358 Winchester and the full sized .35 Whelen.

One burns more powder, but for very little gain (yes I do have both of those rifles also).

If you want to see a real fun gun, I'd post pictures of my highly customized .444 marlin...it is a real beauty...and it is an oddity in that it shoots the 240 grain, the 265 grain, the 270 grain, and the 300 grain bullets...all to the same zero at 100 yards.

I certainly never expected that.

The top one is a .35 Remington converted to .358 Winchester

 

After 8 years, I'm not sure the OP cares for another opinion, but I do think the 35 is a great balance of economy and performance. I really like that cartridge.

The .375 is one of my big regrets in rifles that I parted with. I parted with it as a young serviceman needing money to go home on leave. I should have skipped leave. I have a .38-55 now and don't feel the loss in performance, but I would like another .375 when I find one.

I never had the pleasure of a .356, but will gladly add one to the fold when I run across one. I really doubt if the animals will know the difference, but it's a gap that needs filling..