Does anybody have any real world ballistics on the legend round yet? The fastest straight wall cartridge at 200yds just doesn't satisfy my curiosity.

 

Hi

Have a KAK Industries 18" AR barrel , measured velocity on the 145 FMJ averaged 2290 fps. Haven't reloaded any yet, figuring on 180 Tournament FP bullets I once used in my 35 Rem Contender, hoping that will give 2100 to 2200 fps but we'll see.
JES has rebored a couple rifles , a Rem 700 and a Marlin Bolt for customers using a 358 bore and the Pacific Tool 358 AR [ 350 Legend with 358 throat]. We'll see if the customers share their experiences.

 

I don’t have any numbers but someone on YouTube was talking about it and showing that they cherrypicked the cartridges that they compared the 350 legend to when it was released. They picked out anemic factory ammo to put it up against.

 

That is what I have heard as well. I definitely don't regard the 350 Legend as the fastest straight walled cartridge out there.

 

I am a grumpy old man, so take that into consideration with what I am about to say. I refer to this new cartridge as the .350 Pelosi. Pelosi is my politically correct term for B.S. I think Winchester hired the Flim-Flam man to be in charge of their propaganda, err promotion department.

Having said all this, I am sure that the .350 will kill deer with less noise, less cost for ammo, and less thump than the .450 Bushmaster. I would like to see real world reports and not just keyboard numbers that have been cherry picked.

 

Why didn't they just re-introduce the old 351 Win. auto loader cartridge. Seems about the same thing. Not impressed. Neither am I with ANY of the 6.5 stuff they push these days. All a marketing ploy.

 

I’m not gonna bash the cartridge though. It will likely do a great job filling a niche. But companies and wildcatters have been tinkering for a long time to find the best cartridge. So I’m not too sure about something that comes out calling itself the legend. If it’s worthy of the name, it’ll come on it’s own. But I’m always happy to see folks stuck in the straight wall zone afforded new options.

 

My favorite cartridges are the ones I can expect to find in any gun store or Wal-Mart. I don't want go on a quest just to find ammo.

 

Take up reloading and you will be liberated from the limitations of the retailer's shelves. Reloading is rewarding in many ways including the therapeutic value of the process itself, the flexibility of tailoring your ammo for specific uses and firearms, the satisfaction of using your own creations and saving money to name a few.

T.S.

 

What will this cartridge do that a .30-30 or .38-55 will not do?

jmtc.

 

I’m thinking cycle in an AR style rifle.

 

Satisfy the laws in some states specifying that the only legal 35 cal. or greater cartridge for hunting deer must be a straight wall cartridge with a case length between 1.18 and 1.8 inches.

Just one more example of a market being created through government fiat.

T.S.

 

I guess they think straight wall cases dont shoot as far as bottle necks.

 

Those bottle necked cases are specifically designed to kill people. They were invented with the AR-15. We all know how dangerous the AR-15 is. You turn you back and wham, it is killing you. You just can't trust them.

 

Though the 444 Marlin Hornady Superformance is great factory ammo, I have been able to recreate it by reloading for about half the cost.

 

And, if you want something a little less powerful, you can load it down. I load 240 grainers at 2150 fps for deer/pigs. Softer recoil and plenty of punch for the job.

That said, the 444 Marlin is one of my favorite cartridges. And, Hornady does load toward the top end in performance.

T.S.

 

Why would you want to do that? My 44 mag reloads almost match that in a carbine and beat it in my CB LTD.

 

I reload but still like Sharkbait's strategy.

Am I correct in thinking that the 350 Legend brass can't be formed from 5.56 brass?

 

Supposedly the 350 Legend is a blown out 223 casing.

 

It's its own case. It's a fatter case with the rim rebated to fit AR bolts. Will keep the manufacturers from having to retool for bolt faces and holds a bit more powder.

Makes perfect manufacturing sense.

AC

 

I think the velocities advertised were with a light bullet in 140gr range. This may be a winner in sales for Win. It's a triple threat. It meets the Straight case laws, Case length laws and is friendly to ARs. Actually another plus is ammo at $9.99 per 20 box. I'm pretty sure it's blown out 223/5.56 so brass is no problem. Bore is .357 so bullet choice is wide. I don't want one but maybe a good choice for kids & women or guys just wanting legal deer gun in one of the states with calber restrictions. The black rifle crowd here in Ohio can't wait to get their hands on the uppers. I can see a lot of 1895 Marlins on the used market here. Most of the young guys with ARs have bought 45/70 to use on deer. If they can use their ARs the 95s will go to market in a heart beat. It's the ghost of the old 351 win.

 

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/the-winchester-350-legend-cartridge/359189

T.S.

 

Well, I’m enjoying the snot out of the 2 350 Legend ARs I’ve built. Mild blast and recoil. Groundhog accuracy at 125yds so far with the cheap FMJ ammo. I’m pretty sure one of these 2 will be with me opening day for Ohio deer this fall. I gave up hauling around my 1895 SBL 3 years ago.
In all seriousness this is turning out to be a great round. I was looking to cut down on the blast of my 450BM after a freehand shot rattled my head last season. I’ve come to enjoy hunting with an AR and built these to see what they could do. I need to do a good cleaning of both and will see what the 180gr power points will do for accuracy. Federal and Hornady will have more ammo out soon.
I bought a case of the FMJ so I’m not worried about brass. It’s legal, light, handy hunting gun that is certainly capable of killing a deer.
Someone please tell me the downside.

 

Fact is, I no longer own a rifle in 44 mag. I traded it for a sweet Savage 99H takedown in 25-35 circa 1913. Beyond that, my 444s offer more flexibility than the 44. And, I have quite a few 444s.

T.S.

 

Here's Starline .223/.222/.222 Mag/.204 Ruger/ etc etc basic brass with a .3759" head diameter. There's already a popular .357AR wildcat, and Winchester Ammunition went with the larger case diameter, .3900", to keep people from shooting the .350 Legend ammo in wildcat weapons or chambers. Those darn Lawyers.

 

I’m saving my pennies for one of those CZ 527 carbines. I’ve got word CZ USA has been flooded with calls and emails for folks begging them to make a “good” rifle in this caliber. I’ve had both the 223 and 7.62 x39 in the carbines and can attest they are the perfect walking hunting gun.

 

I just got my Barrel and 10 rd Mags from Brownells. I'm going to assemble my own AR upper in 350 Legend. I bought Lee Dies for it. The barrel is made by CMMG and I'm going to use a stripped Aero Precision A3 upper receiver with an enlarged ejection port (made for 458 Socom or 450 Bushmaster). The barrel is 16 in Med weight and it has 1/2 X 28 thread on the muzzle. I had to use a 1/2X28 to 5/8 X 24 thread adapter so I could put on a flash suppressor made for a 40 cal. I am using an adjustable gas block on the car length gas system and a free float hand guard. Everything else is std carrier and bolt for a 223\5.56. Still no brass for sale yet and it uses .357 diam bullets.

 

My CMMG barrel has been been shooting well. I don’t have as many rounds through that as I do my 18 inch GLFA barrel, which is doing very well. You can make mags by grinding the front ribs out of a 10 round PMag. Short job with a dremmel. I like them better because they don’t rattle.
I too am running adjustable gas blocks. I’m surprised how far I can turn them both down and still get full lock back. Makes for nice flat muzzles on the shot. The agb will help smooth out the recoil also. BRT makes a nice compact linear comp that supposed to work great. I’m thinking I might ask for this for Father’s Day.

 

Most AR's are over gassed because they want to make sure you have positive extraction and cycling. I too was surprise at how much gas you can cut out to just get the bolt to lock back. For me I had to go the route of an adjustable gas block because I will be hand loading. If you only intend to use factory ammo then you would not need an adjustable gas system.

 

You can NOT reform 223/5.56 brass to make 350 brass. But Olin only had to tweak their brass-forming setup a fudge or two to make 350 brass, so it's easier and cheaper for THEM.

Apparently, so is lying about ballistics. Figures lie and liars figure. Mr. Hawks explains it better than I can.........

https://www.chuckhawks.com/win_350_legend.html

 

You can NOT reform 223/5.56 brass to make 350 brass. But Olin only had to tweak their brass-forming setup a fudge or two to make 350 brass, so it's easier and cheaper for THEM.

Apparently, so is lying about ballistics. Figures lie and liars figure. Mr. Hawks explains it better than I can.........

https://www.chuckhawks.com/win_350_legend.html

Thanks papajohn. Hawks did a great article. Legend might turn out to be a good round but the hype is the only thing legendary.

 

Just another ho-hum cartridge with little to offer pushed by Advertising BS....................351 Winchester anyone?.......been around about 100 years.

 

I don't think so. The 351 Win is pretty anemic compared to the 350 L. Something like a 4-500 FPS difference in velocity.

Not to mention that the 350L is compatible with the AR platform. There are now AR barrels available in the $75-100 range. If you already have an AR you can build an upper for less than $200. I'm personally a fan of big heavy bullets for deer. Even though I don't live in limited rifle zone the 350L makes a lot of sense and has a lot going for it.

 

Big problem with the 350 Legend curently is there are very few viable bullets out there for us reloaders. The factory ammo uses proprietary .357 inch bullets--they are not the pistol bullets that are marketed by Speer/Sierra/Hornady---etc. The pistol bullets are not rated for 350 Legend velocities of ~2000 to ~2100 FPS. Many of the .358 inch bullets will not work due to the longer ogive and larger diameter. One gunrag writer has written about this problem: https://www.realguns.com/articles/1111.htm He had to resize some of the rifle bullet offerings to get them to work. Not having a proper reloadable bullet for this new cartridge is a big downer for me.

 

I guess one can find fault with anything but I'm thinking the 350L was developed for the majority of hunters who buy their guns and ammo off the shelf, i.e, not reloaders.

BTW, I do reload most of my hunting ammo but I don't see the lack of components as a problem. Ballistics on factory loads seem fine to me and are more than adequate (=35 Rem, >30-30) to take deer. If at sometime in the future correct sized bullets are available, more better. In the mean time it's not a deal killer to me.

 

MAC66, I think you hit the nail on the head........if Olin hadn't called it what they did, if the hype wasn't six feet thick, maybe we wouldn't expect it to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. But the ballistics are nothing to get excited about, there are several dozen cartridges that serve the purpose better, and all this round has going for it is that it works in AR platforms, and it adds another option in states with stupid hunting laws. Will it kill a deer? Sure.....but so will a 22LR under the right conditions. So will a 2x4, if you wield it properly.

In true shill fashion, nearly every gunrag immediately fawned over the new wunderkind, proclaiming it the best deer-slayer since lightning.

Personally, I'd rather use a 30-30, because I think it's a far better cartridge, or the 35 Remington if the critters are big and harder to kill. If you need more gun than that, you're not placing your bullets very well. :bandit:

 

I have lever guns in both 30-30 and 35 Rem and they are indeed good on deer, I've taken a bunch over the 50 years I've been hunting. However, I think the 350L has a couple of things going for it outside of it being used in restricted states or in the AR platform (which I admit is the biggest draw to me)

1. It is available in a compact, relatively inexpensive (compared to lever guns) bolt guns. Something neither the 30-30 or 35 Rem got going for it. If you're just getting into hunting you no longer need to buy an expensive lever gun.

I also have an old 1950s era Stevens bolt gun in 30-30 which I hand load for but nobody makes 30-30 bolt guns anymore. I've often thought that Ruger should/should have made their Ranch rifle in 30-30. I think that would offer a good alternative to the high priced lever guns currently on the market and would in fact resurrect the venerable 30-30 cartridge by allowing spire point bullet loadings. The same with a Ruger Ranch in 35 Rem. It would resurrect that cartridge.

2. The ballistics of the 350L are arguably better than the 30-30 and comparable to the 35 Rem so there is now no need for a bolt gun in those two old calibers. It fills the gap nicely and is soft shooting (low recoil) besides.

So yeah, I am building an AR upper in 350L, not because I need it to hunt with (I hunt in a non restricted area) but because I can. I have enough AR parts to put an upper together by just buying a barrel which is a lot cheaper than buying a bolt gun. I'm also building it because it has possibilities as a good deer cartridge. My 35 Rem just slams deer. I'm thinking the 350L should do the same.