For deer in 35 caliber at moderate velocities, have had a much higher bang flop ratio using the 180gr Speer than any other bullet.

 

I worked up a load with the 180 grain Speer bullet this past spring and will be using that in my 35 Rem Marlin this fall.

 

I have used that bullet with 41.5 grs of LVR---DRTed two whitetail does at 50-60 yards taken a couple days apart. I have not chronyed that load yet--probably its around the 2,000 FPS MV mark.

 

I have used that bullet with 41.5 grs of LVR---DRTed two whitetail does at 50-60 yards taken a couple days apart. I have not chronyed that load yet--probably its around the 2,000 FPS MV mark.

Which bullet...the Sierra or the Speer 180?

 

Bullet choice is solid. I've started to experiment with cast loads. 200gn and 185gn which seem to group well with various powders at 100yds. Because of the Wide Flat Nose (WFN) on the Beartooth Bullet 185gn, it does a great job on deer. The 180gn Speer should do well as others above stated.

Speer Bullets - Product Details

 

I see nothing wrong with Sierra Pro-hunter Speer hot core 220 or 180 grs. on paper those projectiles showed good accuracy in my .358" bore rifles I have. However I do like the idea of equaling the performance of the Savage 308 cartridge in the 35R.... To my memory the Speer's Hot core 180 gr. at MV. of 2300 fps. do just that. If I have the free day between now and before deer season I'll it a this a try. I believe if this load will workout it would be a good for the 336XLR-35R with its 24" barrel, might go MV. 2400+ fps.:hmmmm2: To NY

 

I use a Hornady 200 gr Interlock SP with 44.5 grs of LVR in my '79 Rem 760. I get ~2375 FPS MV with that set-up and that should be devastating on deer. Unfortunately I didn't have any whitetail volunteers show up during the 2016 modern firearms season.

 

Never ask for volunteers. Draft them.

 

My own chronograph results with 45 grains LVR and the 200 Remington CLRN in a 20 inch 336 yielded 2160 fps.

FWIW.

 

Capt Kirk, I haven't loaded anything jacketed bullets in a 35 for a few years now.
But will say that a 200 gr cast bullet and 24.5 hrs IMR 4198 group like this at 50 yrs. from my little short barreled 336
Good luck

RP

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

I have started to experiment with hardcast as well. Hope to finalize a hunting load in the next week or two--I am getting close.

 

Autopsy of a .35 Remington

Well, I guess if you're gonna try to replicate the .35 Remington 200gr RN Core-Lokt, best way is to try to find out what you are trying to replicate! Since Remington is (apparently) no longer offering the 200grRNCL as a component, I've chosen the Sierra 200gr RN soft point Pro-Hunter as a stand-in.

Since Remington (apparently) keeps their powders a closely guarded secret, we'll do an 'autopsy' and see what's inside one of those "secret" factory rounds...time to open this one up like a ripe pineapple.

Get out the old scalpel and let 'er rip...

Weight-check of the projectile shows 200.6gr

There IS a difference in profile between the Sierra (L) and the Remington (R)...

The 'secret sauce' powder...

...close-up view. Anyone recognize the powder visually?

The weight of the charge...

Whatever it is, it's a pretty light load...

The primer. From outward appearances, appears to be A Remington LR primer by the color...

All put back together with a new Lee factory crimp. Hell yeah, I'll shoot it!

 

Per this link the factory 200gr cartridge MV is listed as 2084 fps. Any guesses as to what the powder might be based on the images and MV?

http://gundata.org/cartridge/84/.35-remington/

 

Well when you shoot it if you have a Chronograph check the velocity. I bet it's under 1950 fps. You have to remember Remington isn't going to sell hot loads because there is a lot of old 35R. rifles out there. The powder looks like a ball powder. look at a list of ball powders and see if you can match the grains and note the Velocity printed with it. PS you can match chronograph velocity with printed velocity to have an idea on powder choose.

Take Aim at Rifle Reloading Data | Hodgdon Reloading

H335 Bullet Diameter .358" Hornady 200 gr. RN.
C.O.L. 2.510"
Starting Load
Grains 33.0
Velocity (ft/s) 1,855
Pressure 27,100 CUP
Maximum Load
Grains 37.0
Velocity (ft/s) 2,048
Pressure 33,200

 

Captain Kirk, thirty seven years ago when I purchased my first Marlin 336C and began reloading for it I had great success with IMR3031, RP 9 1/2 primer, and RP cases with the Hornady 200 grain RN bullet. That load was supposed to get to 2110 from a 24" barrel as stated in the small Remington reloading books given out at local gun shops. I had a Chrony chronograph at the time and tested the same load using the HDY 200 grain RN and the Remington 200 grain Core-Lokt bullet. Average velocity with either bullet was 2109 fps from my 1978 Marlin 336C with shockingly good accuracy. I killed several deer with that load and also have recovered bullets from deer kills using both bullets. The recovered bullets were all frontal shots with bullet stopping in the hindquarter and each weighed 150 grains and expanded to .78 caliber. The only bullets I've ever recovered from my forty Pennsylvania Whitetail kills were all that frontal shot stopping in the hindquarter no matter the caliber or speed. As stated in another forum I now use the discontinued Reloder 12 powder made by Hercules/Alliant and that same 336C mentioned above drives a 200 grain bullet to 2300 fps with astounding accuracy. I have four .35 Remington rifles but thankfully my original purchase of 19 pounds of Reloder 12 is down to 13 pounds but will last me till my hunting is done in Heaven. I originally purchased Reloder 12 for my many .300 Savage rifles and it performs outstandingly in them, but that is another story for another day!

358 Win

 

So if Re12 is discontinued, would you recommend the IMR 3031 as a replacement? Or has something better come down the turnpike these days? I've had folks here recommend LVR and Varget so far...

 

I would recommend LVR. for 35R. some M.O. members like AA 2520 and I like H-4895


Hodgdon Powder H4895
Bullet Diameter .358" HDY. 200 gr.
C.O.L. 2.540"
Starting Load
Grains 33.8
Velocity (ft/s) 1,839
Pressure 30,000 CUP
Maximum Load
Grains 36.0C
Velocity (ft/s) 1,959
Pressure 31,900 CUP


Hodgdon Powder LVR
Bullet Diameter .358" HDY. RN 200 gr.
C.O.L. 2.540"
Starting Load
Grains 37.0
Velocity (ft/s) 1,897
Pressure 26,500 CUP
Maximum Load
Grains 41.4C
Velocity (ft/s) 2,116
Pressure 34,700 CUP

 

I do not know what the "best" powder is but with specific bullets towards the heavier side some are better in some ways than others. From the "standard" 20 inch barrel I have chronoed factory 200's from 1960 to 2200 fps. The most common range is 1960 to 2075 fps or so. It is no great trick to duplicate that with any number of powders.

As for your factory load, that charge weight does not correlate with most powders you can be using. It's probably a noncanister type ball powder a little slower than RL 7 and faster than H322. If it does not fill the case, slosh the powder near the bullet and chrono it, then near the primer and tell us what the velocity variations are. If the consistency is poor I would expect you to be able to beat those numbers with good powder selection in handloads.

 

I'm not as concerned with figuring out what it (that powder) is (other than curiosity's sake), as I am replicating the MV and trajectory using an equivalent that won't spike me over up 35K CUP. Not looking for any new nicknames (Lefty, Patchy, Three Fingers...)

 

I load the Rem 200 CL and the Hornady 200gr RN over 38.5grs H4895 in Win cases. 38.5grs H4895 is very accurate and consistent.


I've went up to 40.5grs but it's over Hodgdon's book charge.



Seeing as how the 336 has been chambered in the 356 Win and 375 Win, both running much higher pressures than a 35 Rem, there's little danger of blowing up a rifle with sane loads.


35 Rem +P thread

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1101642/all

 

Yes the 35R has been re-chambered to 358 but loaded to 356 Win charges now I'm not a gunsmith but if you should try to over charge the 35R thinking it safe because the rifle can handle it when re-chambered to a 358 w. or a 375 W. it will be dangerous.

 

This article is on warm loads and the 35 Rem

 

I have that article--its has some good info in it and I used it as a guide for my Rem 760 35 Rem loads.

 

My only 35 cal experiences have been with a 358 win loaded down to 35 rem +p velocities (2250fps). One deer, two antelope, all taken with the hornady 200 rn at 100 yards +/- (one of the poorest performing bullets in the test). The load did really, really well. Part of the fun in handloading is 'overthinking' loads, powders, etc. That might be what's happening here! It's a 35, and your quarry is a deer; It's going to be tough to find a combo that doesn't work - have fun with that 35!

 

The most consistently accurate loads in my 336A are 38.5 grains of IMR 4895 or 39.0 grains of IMR 4064 under the Hornady 200 grain round nose bullet. I use Winchester primers.

 

Let me caution that 375 and 356 pressures deemed suitable for the 336 are nowhere near as high as some believe they are. The operative upper pressure limit for both is in the 46,000 psi vicinity.

We have some listings and loadings for the 35 Remington posted here, or at least we used to, that are not in any way advisable. Pick a fast enough powder, heavy enough bullet and combine both with a poor understanding of what a 336 can take, pressurewise, and it is still possible to do something that is not terribly smart.

 

Pick a fast enough powder, heavy enough bullet and combine both with a poor understanding of what a 336 can take, pressurewise, and it is still possible to do something that is not terribly smart.

What is considered 'upper limit' for a bread-n-butter 336? I've been sticking with the 35K CUP number. Bear in mind that while many of us handloaders can chrono their loads, few if any have the capacity to CUP-check them.

 

My opinion is that if I can get good velocity at lower pressure that is the way to go. I have extensively used "upper end" loads and the velocities I myself deem prudent are best obtained with smart powder choices. For example, max speed with a 220 Speer is much better obtained with LVR than anything else.

Consider 42,000 psi max at a cost of shortened case life. Having gone there, supposedly, in a 336, and considering how expensive and hard to get cases are with shortened life high pressure loadings (as well as unnecessary with LVR) well, 2200 with a 200, around 2300 with a 180 and 2200 with a 220 Speer with LVR are about it in a 20 inch barrel consistent with long case life.

If the case does not last a long time the rifle is being overloaded.

 

Consider 42,000 psi max at a cost of shortened case life. Having gone there, supposedly, in a 336, and considering how expensive and hard to get cases are with shortened life high pressure loadings (as well as unnecessary with LVR) well, 2200 with a 200, around 2300 with a 180 and 2200 with a 220 Speer with LVR are about it in a 20 inch barrel consistent with long case life.

That's cutting to the chase...thanks!

 

I'm sure there would be some variation, how much who knows.


As far as guesstimates on pressure, unless you test your rifle with your brass and your bullets with that particular lot of powder they're pretty much all guesstimates. Your chamber, bore, etc etc will be different than what the book your looking at used so while you're probably close to their pressure you are probably over/under. That's where I feel a chrono comes in handy. As you said a 200 @ 2050 = very safe and very deadly for hunting.

I like the 220 Speer but I like it in my 358 Win. I like 180's and 200's in my 35 Rem and 220's and 225's in my 358 Win because to me that's where I feel they perform best on the stuff I hunt.


One quickload I had run for my 243 showed with X powder and Y bullet I should be getting 2865fps. My chrono shows 2820fps, I don't know if it always works that way but I was impressed with that.

 

As I said, don't bother with anything but LVR with the 220 Speer if your intended velocity range is desired at lowest possible pressures. 2050 fps and less than 35Kpsi ain't gonna happen with any other powder. Extensive shooting with any number of powders has borne this out such that it is not really open to doubt.

 

I would encourage you to be concerned about case longevity, because pressure and longevity are directly related. Being concerned about longevity addresses pressure questions. If you pay attention to measuring what the case is doing related to longevity, you can make a good relative comparison of what your loads are doing compared to, say, factory loads.

Case longevity will tell you when your loads are prudent and when they are not. Make sure you add this to the top of your list of most relevant possible indicators. It is used in conjunction with velocity to show you just where you are at.

A 336 is its own pressure gun, and case longevity tells you just what that acceptable relative pressure is.

 

I would encourage you to be concerned about case longevity, because pressure and longevity are directly related. Being concerned about longevity addresses pressure questions. If you pay attention to measuring what the case is doing related to longevity, you can make a good relative comparison of what your loads are doing compared to, say, factory loads.

Case longevity will tell you when your loads are prudent and when they are not. Make sure you add this to the top of your list of most relevant possible indicators. It is used in conjunction with velocity to show you just where you are at.

A 336 is its own pressure gun, and case longevity tells you just what that acceptable relative pressure is.

An excellent point, 35R. Which helps bear out the point I mentioned earlier that when I chuck my factory empties on the case trimmer, it's usually an exercise in futility. Another feather in the cap of the factory round, not so much for my Speer handloads which seem to stretch a bit more when using 33gr IMR 4320 and it shows itself on the trimmer.

 

I never get to caught up in top loads. the deer will not get out of the way.

 

I don't know what bullet you are using that load with, but even with the 220 Speer it should not be at all excessive.

 

Those were my Speer 220 loads, 33gr IMR 4320, 1692fps. They usually cut metal the third or fourth time around, so the do stretch some. I've gone to neck-sizing only to preserve the brass somewhat due to the cost (if you can find it) but I've yet to have a case failure at those loads even after a half-dozen cycles. Speer considers this a 'max load' but I think they could go higher. I'm just chicken.