I can't say that I agree with you on your statement that the 356 can shoot heavier bullets. As several here have shown the 338 M EX can handle the 250 RN at 2225 - 2250 fps. Also the 250 338 is somewhat longer and should penatrate deeper, it seems to me, as well as be alittle flatter.

 

The 250 gr. .338 RN would be a a great bullet and 2240 fps (avg) would make a heck of a 'great bear bullet' That long .338 bullet travling at those Vel. ( modest) would penatrate till next week..getting that much Vel. with that limited case cap (due to bullet length ) is quite a accomlishment.

I'd like for someone to try a 250gr. FN or RN hard cast gas check bullet..

That would be the daddy rabbit..for close quarter bear protection...
or a Elk bullet
i'd like to read more about the 338ME and the 250gr. RN bullet

The 250gr. bullet really ,makes me think twice about the 338ME ..

 

http://www.montanabulletworks.com/wst_page5.html

Scroll down onthis link they have a great looking .338 HCFNGC

you guys got those wheels turning.... : :
"Don't listen to the voices... don't listen to the voices..." ;D

 

We gun buffs do like to split hairs. ;D
In any practical sense there is no noticeable difference between the two except that one is available and the other is a collectors item. You could throw the .358 Winchester and .338 Federal into the same pot as well and within 200 yards the .375 Winchester is not enough different to rate a separate category.

 

I believe Marlin miss the target by not reintroduce the 358 win. I own a BLR 358 win. and I load the Sierra 225 GR. Gameking at 2450 FPS. Marlin can redesign the 358 case and put a gummy tip on a 200 GR. BT-Spitz. Out of a 358 Marlin XLR Express 24" barrel it will match the 338 ME. and better it. Marlin's action is a strong one and both case and can be design to work.

You might say but how about the 356 win. it is already designed for a lever action. Yes for the Winchester 94 AE. the Win 94 ae. has a weak action and the 356 win. case at the base has a thick wad to compencape therefor the powder capacity is lesser than the 358 win.

But if 356 win. is the way Marlin gos; so be it. It is a great caliber and should be made in more hunting rifles.

 

I believe Marlin miss the target by not reintroduce the 358 win. I own a BLR 358 win. and I load the Sierra 225 GR. Gameking at 2450 FPS. Marlin can redesign the 358 case and put a gummy tip on a 200 GR. BT-Spitz. Out of a 358 Marlin XLR Express 24" barrel it will match the 338 ME. and better it. Marlin's action is a strong one and both case and can be design to work.

You might say but how about the 356 win. it is already designed for a lever action. Yes for the Winchester 94 AE. the Win 94 ae. has a weak action and the 356 win. case at the base has a thick wad to compencape therefor the powder capacity is lesser than the 358 win.

But if 356 win. is the way Marlin gos; so be it. It is a great caliber and should be made in more hunting rifles.

I'm a big fan of the 358 Win., its simple, efficient, and effective...I have a BLR and a Savage 99 in 358 Win.

 

The 356 was chambered in the Winchester Big Bore 94 which was a beefed up 94 action. Quite a bit of difference in ablility to contain pressures than the standard 94 AE. The Big Bore 94 was stronger than the 336 action when it came to pressures generated by the 307. In the 356, the pressures dissapated faster due to the increased bore size, so it worked ok in the 336 action.
I had a 336 30-30 rechambered to 307 and often got stuck cases using winchester factory loads. With my reloads it was no problem even using 308 rimless cases in it but the pressures were less than the factory loads. That's one reason why Marlin went to the shortened 308ME case at lower pressures than 307 factory ammo so that it would work in the 336 action without getting stuck cases not to mention improved performance with improved loading of proprietary blends of powder to gain more velocity with less pressure.

The 356 is a great round but most 35's are the unloved darlings of the shooting world. Hornady went to the 338 bores size to gain big bore performance with a bullet of higher Sectional Density and Ballistic Coefficient that could be driven at faster velocities than a comparable 35 caliber bullet.
A 35 cal bullet would have to be around 220gr or more in weight to have a comparable ballistic coefficient as the 338 200gr bullet and could not be driven at a high enough velocity as the 338.
356 ammo never got the factory quoted velocity with either the 200gr or 250gr bullet weights. The 338 does get the factory quoted velocity and from what I can see with my Marlin 338 and others on this forum, they are much more accurate.
I also had a Winchester 356 and played with a Marlin 375 as well.
The 307 rechambered Marlin I had was very accurate aswas the Marlin 308ME I played with. The 356 winchester and the 375 Marlin couldn't come close to the accuracy of the 338 Marlin which also surpasses the 307 and 308 Marlin.
That being said, I still like the 35 calibers including the 356 and the 35 remington not to mention the 357 magnum.
Right now I have a Marlin 357 rifle and a Lone Eagle pistol in 35 remignton which is very accurate and I am getting 1.5" groups at 100 yards with the limited amount of shooting I have done so far with this 35 pistol using Remington 150gr ammo and Hornady Leverevolution 200gr ammo.

 

Ps not to mention the 358 winchester round will not work in the Marlin as it is too long and that's why they came up with the 356 winchester to begin with which is a rimmed 358 case loaded to shorter overall length to function in the Winchester and Marlin actions.

 

I get 200gr Factory .358 Win to function (not fire) just fine through both my 336ERs. Can't say that I think they are loaded very differently in Winchester factory ammo either. Not a lot of difference in two loads both shooting 200gr .358 bullets at claimed velocities of 2460 & 2490 FPS, is there?? :hmmmm:

 

Ps not to mention the 358 Winchester round will not work in the Marlin as it is too long and that's why they came up with the 356 Winchester to begin with which is a rimmed 358 case loaded to shorter overall length to function in the Winchester and Marlin actions.

This information is out of a Speer hand load book about the 356 win. "Although it shares most external dimensions with the 358 win., the 356 win. has heavier walls which reduce its case capacity .358 win. reloading data must not be used for loading this cartridge".

All I'm saying is the 358 case has a greater powder capacity than the 356 win. And I know the big bores are stronger than the standard 94 but not enough; otherwise no need for the thicker walls of the 356.win. case.

Right how I can find the article stating the reason why the thicker walls. but if it is like I wrote in the last poster or not I will quote it.

Right now I'm getting ready to go hunting tomorrow it is opening regular season in the south part of NYS.
Get back to this Monday.

 

Ps not to mention the 358 Winchester round will not work in the Marlin as it is too long and that's why they came up with the 356 Winchester to begin with which is a rimmed 358 case loaded to shorter overall length to function in the Winchester and Marlin actions.

This information is out of a Speer hand load book about the 356 win. "Although it shares most external dimensions with the 358 win., the 356 win. has heavier walls which reduce its case capacity .358 win. reloading data must not be used for loading this cartridge".

All I'm saying is the 358 case has a greater powder capacity than the 356 win. And I know the big bores are stronger than the standard 94 but not enough; otherwise no need for the thicker walls of the 356.win. case.

Right how I can find the article stating the reason why the thicker walls. but if it is like I wrote in the last poster or not I will quote it.

Right now I'm getting ready to go hunting tomorrow it is opening regular season in the south part of NYS.
Get back to this Monday.

PS. The 358 win case when loaded with the Hornady 200 GR. FTX is the same C. O. A. L. as the 356 win. All is to be done is give this bullet a boat tail and it will work in the same action used in the 336 Marlin 356 win. IT WILL WORK YES IT WILL WORK! HAVE A OPEN MIND.

 

We gun buffs do like to split hairs. ;D
In any practical sense there is no noticeable difference between the two except that one is available and the other is a collectors item. You could throw the .358 Winchester and .338 Federal into the same pot as well and within 200 yards the .375 Winchester is not enough different to rate a separate category.

Yep.

 

I don't know enough about the 375 Win. except it was short lived, not as good as the 35 Rem. ballistics.
The 338 Fed. and 358 win. share the same parent case the 308 win. and both firing a 200 gr. bullet of the same design the ballistics should be close.

I do not agree that the 358 win is a collectors item; in some firearms maybe but there are plenty of collectible firearms in popular calibers like 30/30, 30/06, etc. also.

The 358 is made by Ruger, Browning still to today and is more popular in Europe.

But getting back to 338 ME VS 356 Win. I just believe that Marlin would have another winner if Marlin would make a 358 Marlin XLR Express (by just rimming the 358 win. case) in their XLR series

PS I already stated why the 358 win. case and not the 356.Win.case. The 358 win case has the greater powder capacity.

 

Rather than speculate, I did some measurments for anyone that cares. An empty, once-fired, unsized 358 Winchester case (case length 2.000" as it came from the factory) holds 55.9 grains of IMR 4320 filled to the top and leveled off with a blade; a 356 Win once-fired, unsized cartridge case (case length 2.002" as it came from the factory) filled to the top abnd leveled with a blade holds 57.8 grains of the same powder. Much printed information was probably completely accurate when it was printed!

For what it's worth I just bought a new condition 356 Win 1894 AE (because the Marlin 336ER I was trying to deal on was too expensive and the Win was MUCH cheaper and unfired). I worked up to 45.5 grains of IMR 4320 with WLR primers behind Hornady 200 grain Flex-tips in new 356 brass, which seems to be suddenly readily available. I found I had to crimp the bullets to the very top of the cannelure in order to get rounds to feed freely from the magazine. A good OAL length for function and crimp is 2.60" - any longer won't feed in my rifle.

I need to dust off a chronograph - if the load I'm using is 2400 fps or better I'll keep it; if not, I'll try TAC or Varget to see if I can get similar accuracy (it's more accurate than I am) and 2400 or more fps.

 

Hornady's data shows the 356 win. using 200 gr. FTX bullet, WLR. ,AA 2460, gr. 44.1 gr. at max. charge. with a velocity.2450 fps.

As far as a home test of an individual well I will stick with the technicians at Speer's

In their hand loading book 13 It shows compressed powder load using their 220 gr FSP bullet,in 358 win., BL-C(2) 50.o gr. and 356 win.BL-C(2) 46.0 gr. a 4.o gr. difference. It is a different that should not be ignored.

I also own a 356 win. 94 AE. brought it NIB a time ago; I load for it and also the 358 win. I understand the difference and go with it; it is safer this way and with any caliber I stay within it's capacity. It is safer to load a 308 win. to match a 300 savage then the opposite.

 

PS. looking at the C.O.L. tested with the 220gr. FSP. in the Speer Hand Book the 356 win. is 2.550" and the 358 win. 2.680". Hornady data for the 356 win. with the 200gr. FTX C.O.L. is 2.600".
What ever; the 356 win. vs 358 win. case used to make a Marlin XLR 358/356 win. is fine with me. For now I will just load my 338 for hunting and for the range and be happy.

 

I know this thread is old but I just had to say that I've talked to a gunsmith and he said you can cut a .358 and .356 cases open and the .356 is no thicker than the .358. And "308/338" said there was a 4gr difference in powder in the Speer's manual, but I have to point out that any weight bullet will have to be seated deeper in the .356 than the .358 due to the COAL so of course there will be less powder in a compacted load in the .356 than .358, it has nothing to do with the brass.

 

I had a chance to buy a .356 Marlin. What I finally found was a nice steel receiver BLR that I'm getting rebarreled to 338 Federal. Not quite the same as the 338 marlin but similar. Here where I live a shot of 300 yrds or more is a very real possibility and I thought the 338 would be better at longer ranges.

 

Yes a .338 bullet has better ballistics past 300 than a .358 bullet. I'm picking up my 338MXLR up today so I'm ready for anything in North America now!!

 

I've owned ..several Marlins in 356 Win. two Marlins in 375win. and a couple of Winchesters in 375 win.

Built a wildcat several years back ..a Marlin 336 reamed out to a 308. thus having a 307/32 cal (32 extra special) ...never could tell no difference between a 307...but it shot with authority with some cast .322 bullets ended up selling it and the barrel was re bored to a 356 win.
I never owned a 338 Marlin or a 308 ME .. seems like they couldn't be made fast enough.....I started fooling alot with the 35 Rem. But now I fiddle with the 30-30 and a 45/70

I guess one of the most interesting cartridges for a 94 or a 336 was never made it off the drawing borard the 400 Winchester ...I think it was a straight walled 30 WCF case necked to .400 even thought i feel a .411 would be better ..the use of bullets meant for the 41 Mag.
i think this cartridge would be a less powerful 444 Marlin...less fuss but with very similar results on game especially with 250gr .411 bullets

 

338ME
Better ballistic coeficient.
Rifle is designed from the ground up for longer range shooting

 

The strength difference debate between the win 94 and the 336 continues to come up. They both have angeled in the reciever locking bolts that create flex under pressure and are limited to certain cartridge pressures. They don't necessarily blow up when subjected to excess pessures, but do wear more quickly and in more extreem cercumstances peen contact surfaces and stretch the reciever.
Not savy enough to do the link thing, but just use your search for "Buck Elliot's 454 casull lever gun tests" .
I have a standard not big bore angel eject win 94 That a gunsmith threaded a big bore barrel to for me. Am in the cautios load development stage. Would like to see 2200+ with the speer 220 and 2400 withe the rcbs cast 200 gr GC bullet. Am watching for any change in head space and brass stretch.
L8

 

I used 358 brass when hand loading the 356 win. in my 94BB and Marlin..just kept the OAL with in 356 specs.

30-30 brass and 38-55 brass for my 375 Winny...