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.32 Special Members good read.

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#1 ·
Hi, Swany here, just a few little items for you to read. Hope it helps some, these articles are copied from their authors.

WHAT MAKES IT SPECIAL?
By: M. L. McPherson

Synopsis: Debate over the ballistic virtues and superiority of one chambering verses another are common. The discussion comparing the 30-30 Winchester to the 32 Winchester Special demonstrates that these debates have been going on for a long, long time.

Recently, I came on one of those buys that sets one's head spinning. We were killing an hour at a gun store across town - waiting for rush hour traffic to clear before heading home. I moseyed over to the used gun rack and there it was a truly special rifle!

The tang on this Marlin was marked, Model 1936. Its barrel read 32 Special. BY opening the finger-lever I exposed the serial number on the underside of the tang, 303! Overall, though obviously used, the rifle was in surprisingly good condition, with no signs of abuse.

It was one of those situations, perhaps typical. I wanted this rifle, whatever the price but, being typically broke, I simply could not afford to buy anything. After heaving a sigh of resignation, I turned the price tag over - $189. I wanted to scream.

Instead, I dejectedly made my way home. I casually mentioned the incident to my wife. She suggested hocking the car, if necessary, and insisted that I immediately drive back across town and buy that rifle. Never one to argue with the boss, I drove.
It was still there. After a few minutes of dickering, I owned it for $175, tax included.

I have long wondered why the 32 Winchester Special chambering failed to gain even a reasonable measure of popularity, while its parent cartridge, the venerable 30 WCF (Winchester Center Fire), is still going strong after 100 years.

The 30 WCF is more commonly referred to these days as the 30-30. This designation is reportedly a reflection of the caliber and the original charge of the available smokeless powder. This, in turn, reflects a carry-over from earlier and quite useful blackpowder cartridge designations, e.g., 45-70-500 for 45-caliber, 70-grains blackpowder and 500-grain (cast lead) bullet.

As with so many things in this old world, sometimes what seems an established fact turns out - upon closer examination - to be erroneous. Someone makes a statement - perhaps an opinion based on nothing but conjecture. Someone hears this opinion, assumes it to be true and repeats it - as if it were a fact. Someone else hears this "fact" and prints it. VoilĂ , something that started as nothing but conjecture eventually becomes a well-known fact.

Here are the basics of the oft printed "facts" explaining the impetus behind Winchester's invention of the 32 Winchester Special (WS):

It is said folks had been trying blackpowder handloads in the 30-30 and were having trouble with powder fouling because of the small bore and unusually fast rifling twist, compared to typical blackpowder bores. It is claimed that Winchester introduced the 32 WS, to provide a similar chambering that was more amenable to blackpowder loads. This cartridge, simply the 30-30 case necked up and chambered in a barrel with a significantly slower rifling twist (1/16 versus 1/12), works well with black powder.

The 32 WS does have a slower rifling rate - 1:16-inch compared to 1:12-inch for the 30-30 - and its bigger bore should be less prone to powder fouling. Therefore, this explanation seems plausible enough. For why else should Winchester introduce a cartridge so similar to its already extremely popular 30-30?
Several years ago, I came upon a copy of Winchester's 1916 catalogue. Imagine my surprise when I found the following detailed explanation as to why Winchester had introduced the 32 Winchester Special:
The .32 Winchester Special cartridge, which we have perfected, is offered to meet the demand of many sportsmen for a smokeless powder cartridge of larger caliber than the .30 Winchester [original name for the 30-30] and yet not so powerful as the .30 Army [now known as the 30-40 Krag].
That was the entire explanation! There was not so much as a hint about any connection to using blackpowder reloads, facilitating handloading or other such nonsense!

The catalogue went on with a simple explanation of why the 32 WS was able to deliver a significant increase in power, when loaded at the same pressure, compared to the 30-30. Published ballistics in that catalogue verified this claim. The 32 WS was credited with generating about 10.6% more muzzle energy than its progenitor.

After considering pertinent facts and upon reflection, I suspect most would agree: The evidently invented story is unfounded, perhaps even a bit ridiculous.

In the first place, why would Winchester make any effort to help anyone avoid buying Winchester ammunition? This makes no sense. In the second place, it was only very recently that any of the major ammunition manufacturers finally faced the music and joined us handloaders, rather than fighting us. To the later point, Winchester's 1916 catalogue lists and analyzes gun and shooting related items from A to Z, in amazing variety and diversity. Nevertheless, there is not so much as a single mention of handloading, despite listing of various components. Yes, Winchester wanted to be in on the sales of handloading components but they certainly were not anxious to encourage the practice.

Finally - and perhaps most telling, why would Winchester have reinvented the wheel, so to speak? From the very beginning, the Model-94 was offered in the blackpowder 32-40 chambering. The 32-40 uses a tapered version of the same basic case as the 30-30 and 32 WS - first came the straight-sided 38-55, then the tapered 32-40, then the 30-30 and finally the 32 WS. Those who wanted to save money by reloading with blackpowder most likely would have - and certainly should have - purchased the less expensive 32-40 - at $18 versus $23, the difference in cost would have paid for enough components to make about 500 reloads.

In earlier catalogues, Winchester did mention that the 32 WS could be successfully handloaded using blackpowder, they even offered a replacement sight designed to work with blackpowder loads. So what? It was true that the 32 WS could use blackpowder to advantage while the 30-30 could not, so Winchester advertised the fact. Is that equivalent to proving that they invented the 32 WS for the sole benefit of blackpowder handloaders? I think not.

Again, those with that interest would have been better served by buying the less expensive 32-40 chambered version of the same rifle, which not incidentally used the same bore and twist as the 32 WS. To me the answer is obvious, Winchester simply bored and rifled their high-strength steel using the same tooling as with the well-established 32-40 and then chambered that tougher barrel for a necked-up version of the 30-30.

The 30-30 was designed by improving and necking down the 32-40 a cartridge that was well established when Mr. Browning designed the Model-94 and the cartridge around which he designed that action. As the story goes, Browning never intended the rifle to chamber smokeless cartridges. Folks at Winchester, recognizing the massive safety margin of his design, built the rifle of nickel-steel and invented a new smokeless chambering to be co-introduced with it in 1895. It seems logical that they would modify the case design to prevent these higher-pressure 30-30 loads from being chambered in blackpowder guns. (Here, I have theorized - and I hope this does not someday become the basis of another ill-founded "fact"!)

Enough history, let us compare the 32 WS to its vastly more popular parent and see if we can figure out why the newer chambering never caught on. It has been stated by many pundits - including some who should know better - that these two cartridges are ballistic twins; this just is not true!

The 32 WS and the 30-30 use the same basic case. Both are loaded to the same nominal pressure and are chambered in virtually identical rifles. Here the equality ends.

The 32 WS bullet has an 8.6% greater cross-sectional area. Consequently, it can be loaded to generate significantly more power. This is a matter of basic physics: Equal pressure acting on a greater area through an equal distance will accelerate an equal mass to a greater velocity.

Another significant factor: The 32 WS has more usable powder capacity! This may seem odd, since the cases are nominally identical, excepting neck diameter. The explanation is twofold: When these have the same nose shape and are the same weight, a 0.321-inch diameter 32 WS bullet is shorter than a 0.308-inch diameter 30-30 bullet. Since both cartridges must be loaded to about the same overall length the 32 WS bullet does not enter as far into the case; the difference is worth about 1.2 grains of usable capacity. Furthermore, standards call for 0.01-inch greater overall cartridge length for the 32 WS. This adds another 0.2 grains to usable case capacity. This is a total difference of about 1.4 grains. Since the 30-30 holds about 35 grains of powder, this difference exceeds 4%.

Finally, the slower rifling rate in the 32 WS spins the bullet slower. Spinning of the 32 WS bullet consumes on about 60% of the energy that spinning the 30-30 does. With less energy used to spin the bullet, more is available to accelerate it. This effect, while minor, is real.

Unquestionably, and despite contrary claims by so-called experts: the 32 WS, when properly loaded to the same pressure and when used in rifles with the same length barrel, will easily generate 14% more muzzle energy than the 30-30.

That significantly exceeds the difference between the 280 Remington and the 7mm Remington Magnum! External and terminal ballistics are another matter.

The following tables assume 170-grain bullets with the same nose profiles (such as the applicable Speer bullets). For this data, the 32 WS is arbitrarily given a conservative 10% advantage in muzzle energy. As noted earlier, this agrees with early factory data and theoretical results. Further, based on modern handloading data (see table one), this is a very conservative difference.
Table one (1989 Winchester data):

Load Powder Bullet Velocity Energy Pressure
30-30 W748 170 2145 fps 1735 ft-lb 36,000 CUP
32 WS W748 170 2240 fps 1893 ft-lb 32,500 CUP

It is certainly possible that some slightly better powder choice might increase the 30-30's power a few percent without increasing pressure above this SAAMI maximum of 36,000 CUP (Copper Units of Pressure). However, it seems unlikely one could gain the full 9% it would take to equal this 32 Special load, which is fully 10% below the SAAMI pressure limit! Conversely, simply increasing the charge in the 32 WS load, as necessary to achieve full SAAMI pressure, would result in a muzzle velocity increase of 112-fps.

Modern factory ammunition data does not give the 32 WS much of an edge because current factory 32 WS loads are held to significantly lower pressure than factory 30-30 loads! Since the oldest 32 WS rifles are somewhat newer and presumably in better repair than the oldest 30-30 rifles, I can see no sense to this approach.

When of equal weight and similar shape, 30-30 bullets do have a higher BC and therefore retain velocity better. The question is, within practical hunting ranges for these guns, does this BC advantage overcome the initial velocity edge of the 32 WS. Compare the following data and draw your own conclusions.
TRAJECTORY DATA: 30-30, 170-grain

RANGE yards 0 50 100 150 200 250 300 350
Velocity fps 2150 2021 1896 1777 1664 1556 1455 1363
Energy ft-lb 1745 1541 1356 1192 1045 914 799 701
Path (LOS) inches -0.7 2.1 2.9 1.3 -3.2 -10.8 -21.8 -37.1
5-mph Wind Drift inches 0.0 0.2 0.7 1.8 3.4 5.5 8.0 11.3
Maximum range for bullet path = +\- 3-inch, 198 yards with Zero at 168 yards.
TRAJECTORY DATA, 32 WS, 170-grain

RANGE yards 0 50 100 150 200 250 300 350
Velocity fps 2255 2111 1973 1839 1714 1595 1482 1379
Energy ft-lb 1919 1682 1469 1277 1109 960 829 718
Path (LOS) inches -0.7 2.1 3.0 1.6 -2.4 -9.3 -19.5 -33.8
5-mph Wind Drift inches 0.0 0.2 0.8 1.8 3.5 5.7 8.3 11.7

Maximum range for bullet path = +\- 3-inch, 205 yards with Zero at 175 yards

NOTE: This data assumes a very conservative 10% muzzle-energy advantage for the 32 WS with identical nose profiles for bullets. If loaded to the same pressure with best modern powders, the 32 WS advantage is quite significant.

There you have it: a bullet form the 32 WS is still going faster at 350 yards, which is far beyond what most of us would consider the useful range for this type of rifle! This much is clearly demonstrated: at any reasonable hunting range, the 32 WS shoots flatter (with the traditional 170-grains loads) and delivers more energy than the 30-30.

Terminal ballistics are a bit harder to figure. With modern practices and understanding, it should be a simple matter to construct either bullet so that it provides desirable terminal performance. In the early days of the 32 WS, this may not have been the case. If 30-30 bullets were marginally stable, in terms of holding together on impact, similarly constructed 32 WS bullets may have been prone to failures. If this were true, word would have gotten around. I have no reason to suspect that this happened. It should not have - other hunting cartridges of the era worked at significantly higher velocities - but it may have been an explanation as to why the 32 WS failed to compete.

I discovered one other possible explanation several years ago. I came upon part of a box of 32 WS cartridges that must have been made in the earliest years of this century. These loads feature an oversize primer - 0.25-inch diameter, which has a window in the copper (?) cup. A brass (?) disk - with a "W" stamped on it - obturates this window. These semi-balloon head cases are headstamped W.R.A. Co. above, 32 W. S. below. Topping things off is a nickel-plated jacketed flat point bullet with a "W" stamped on the jacket. Shaking one of these cartridges reveals a somewhat loose charge of smokeless powder.

The box these cartridges came in was rotted and abused beyond recognition and I felt there was no great collector value so, just for fun, I chronographed three rounds.

Each fired with an interesting sound: "Click, bang, tu-tu-tu." Yes, every shot was an audible hang-fire and each sounded as though the bullet tumbled upon leaving the barrel - and I am certain that it did because the bullets never hit the target! All gave respectable (considering the age of these loads) and similar muzzle velocity - average MV was 1900 fps.

Why should these bullets tumble? Examination of the remaining loads revealed the puzzling answer. Maximum diameter of every bullet was 0.318 inches, which is quite odd for loads intended for use in a 0.321-inch bore. With the worn bore in the well used and somewhat abused Winchester '94 in which I tested those loads, those undersize bullets had no chance of catching the rifling without obturating. Obviously the load did not generate sufficient pressure to cause full obturation and the bullet therefore tumbled - accuracy was nonexistent.

Now the ninety-four-million-dollar question: Why should Winchester deliberately load 32 WS ammunition using a too-small bullet? As far out at it may seem, I can imagine only one explanation, that is the 8mm Mauser! What in thunder, you may ask, has the 8mm Mauser to do with Winchester loading undersize bullets in the 32 WS?

Well, here is one possibility. When originally introduced, the 8mm Mauser was loaded with a heavy 0.318-inch round-nose bullet and the rifle was equipped with a shallowly rifled barrel. When a lighter pointed-bullet load was adopted, a new rifling specification was also adopted. In the newer design, the lands were the same diameter but the groves were opened to 0.323-inch. This provided longer barrel life before accuracy dropped off significantly, this was important in those days of soft steel and somewhat corrosive and erosive loads. This design also made it possible to shoot the older 0.318-inch bullets through the newer barrel with reasonable accuracy. While European manufacturers adopted separate 8mm Mauser loads, US manufacturers stayed with the 0.318-inch bullet.

I do not know if Winchester was loading for the 8mm Mauser when they made the 32 WS cartridges I tested and measured. Again, it seems a long shot but why else should the bullets in these 32 WS cartridges be made undersize and at the exact diameter used for early 8mm Mauser bullets? Perhaps Winchester was saving a bit of money by using the same sizing dies for both 8mm and 32 WS bullets. Whatever the reason, it is likely these undersize bullets shot okay in new, 0.321-inch, 32 WS barrels. However, as noted, 0.318-inch bullets do not shoot worth a hoot in a well worn 32 WS barrel.

The 32 Special has been branded as, "Prone to losing accuracy," after its barrel sees lots of use. When undersize bullets are used, that is a fact. On the other hand, the 30-30 is said to maintain useful accuracy, practically forever - I suspect this is also quite true. However, when correct diameter bullets are used, even well worn 32 WS rifles shoot just fine. The same abused '94 noted above shoots surprisingly small groups when any correct-diameter bullet is tested, so does my Marlin 1936.

So why did 32 WS rifles fail to sell? Several market forces worked against it. First, I suspect that most folks felt no the need for more power than the 30-30 offered - of those who did, most probably wanted a lot more power. Winchester would have been better off if they had pushed 32 WS loads to the same pressure level as the 30-30, that additional 50 fps would have mattered. Second, the 30-30 had a significant marketing edge. When the 32 WS came along, the 30-30 was already well established as the original high-velocity hunting cartridge and 30-30 ammunition was much more readily available. Dealers were less apt to order 32 WS chambered rifles. Since hunters seldom saw a 32 WS rifle, they were less apt to buy one.

An similar situation exists today with the 30-30 and 35 Remington. For many years, Marlin has offered the Model-336 in both chamberings. Although the 35 Remington is almost certainly a better cartridge for the uses for which most hunters would buy a 336, I have never actually seen a 35 Remington chambered Marlin on a new gun rack! This, in spite of examining literally thousands of guns on hundreds of gun racks. Dealers just do not order 35 Remington chambered Marlins into stock. If you want one, you will probably have to special-order it. At least that is the way it is in the west.

One other factor should be mentioned, although I cannot believe it made any real difference: the 32 WS kicks harder! It shoots the same weight bullet faster and the rifle is a few ounces lighter because of the bigger bore. I know of several people today who choose 150-grain 30-30 loads because those do not kick as hard as the 170-grain load. Historically, some hunters may have chosen the 30-30 over the 32 WS for the same reason.
One final thought: Since it was never very popular, ammunition factories were not encouraged to offer different 32 WS loadings. While there has been considerable choice through the years, when it came to 30-30 ammo, one was usually lucky to find even one or two different loads for the 32 WS (all were 170-grain bullets).
What is so "special" about the 32 Winchester Special? Well, to me it is more than just its name. It is the nostalgia and mystique, the romance and speculation of days gone by, all brought into my life by this fine old Marlin.

Two factors give the 32 WS about 1.4-grains (4%) greater usable capacity than the 30-30: Maximum overall length is 0.01 inches greater and equal-weight bullets are significantly shorter. Pictured are 0.308-inch and 0.321-inch Speer 170-grain Flat Point bullets. Handloads bracket very early Winchester 32 Winchester Special. Speer's 170-grain Flat Point has a ballistic coefficient of 0.297. Of all 30-30 bullets offered, only the Speer 170-grain FP has a higher BC. At 0.304 versus 0.297, the difference is meaningless! These Speer bullets are the best offered for either cartridge, the BC advantage is so great that these bullets deliver more energy at 300 yards than competitive bullets do at 200 yards! With this Speer bullet loaded at top realistic 32 WS velocity, about 2350 fps, this cartridge becomes a legitimate 250 to 300 yard deer chambering.

ANOTHER .32 WRITE UP.


A few years ago on the old marlin Talk Board Greg Mushial and I took a serious look at the 32 Special cartridge. Greg spent a fair amount of money and came to the conclusion the 32 Special does indeed have considerable accuracy potential.
I did a little looking around and found a few interesting quotes from old time gunwriters as to the effectiveness of the 32 Special cartridge. Here are two posts from a long thread.

Hopefully William Iorg will reply... but we're just about to finish up taking data for the 32ws, and find it head and shoulders above the (our dearly beloved) 30-30. At least this is for shooting lead; jacketed we have no experience yet. But accuracy we're finding the average groups sized to be running .6-.7x the same loads in a 30-30. Quite a (very pleasant) surprise. But given Iorg's research, this seems to have been the case historically. When we started taking data, we did it more out of completeness than anything else, "knowing" up front that doing such would be approximately a waste of time. Now, we've shot 36 different powders (more than any other cartridge we taken data for!), and are planning to use it for Ranch Dog's PM II. Absolutely a delightful cartridge. Would rate its accuracy at least as good as the 45-70, close to the 218 bee. Of note: although we haven't taken any jacketed data, if I remember Iorg's research correctly, the 32 tradionally runs about 100 fps faster than the 30-30 (same bullet weight) - slightly larger case, and slightly larger cross section (ie, more area for the gases to push), and given that only 3/4 the energy is going into spinning the bullet vs pushing it down the tube (1:12 vs 1:16 twist). If you have a 30-30 and $60 extra, you might grab a 24" 32ws 336 barrel from e-gunparts and do the barrel swap. The best $60 we've spent in a long time.

Can you tell I'm quite impressed with the cartridge??

do shoot straight,
greg


Greg,
Here is some .32 Special trivia for you.
Dr. Henry Stebbins
Rifles, A Modern Encyclopedia, 1958
"16" twist gave better cast bullet accuracy."
"Way back, .32 Special factory velocity was some 100 f. s. ahead of the .30-30's, and perhaps a difference in killing power could be noted in 100 or more carefully autopsied deer."

"How To Select and Use Your Big Game Rifle 1952.

"170 grain .30-30 2,220 f. s. .32 Special 170 grain 2,280 f. s."

"Some .32 loads had round nose bullets which did 'out range' the FN bullets of the .30-30."

"The slower twist allows handloading to higher velocity than the .30-30."

"Plain base lead bullets can be driven to higher velocities than the thirties without having to resort to gas check bullets."

Discussing the economics of reloading; "for example, the slow twist .32 Special with shortish 170 grain bullets perform best with 4198, the more rapidly pitched .30-30 with longer bullet of equal weight likes 3031. Bore resistance to the bullet speeds combustion."


Charles Askins Sr.

Rifles and Rifle Shooting an Outers Book, 1912

Comparing the .30-30, .32-40, .32 special, .303 Savage, .30 Remington Auto.

"The .32 Special has the highest velocity and greatest smashing force, but not to any marked extent."


Jim Foral

Gun Writers of Yesteryear

Charles Cottar discussing hunting in British East Africa in Outers Book 1914.

"Killing Power vs. Striking Power"

Testing the .32 special on African game.
"I killed all kinds of African Big Game with the .32 Special, except elephant, but not with softnose bullets. But in trials I learned that this gun will drive a projectile of the soft type, deeper than either the .405 or .30 Springfield, when the target is animal tissue. On large lions it penetrated the shoulder blade and entered the spine, causing instant death - yet it is not the medicine gun. For an all around weapon, for African shooting, it far excels the .405, which, at beyond one hundred yards, is too inaccurate, even for big game."

I believe Cottar's most interesting statement is; "I did not try the .30-06 on lion, nor do I care to."


C. E. Hagie

The American Rifle 1944

"The .38-55 with a 255 grain bullet has exactly the same trajectory at 300 yards as does the.45-70 with a bullet of 405 grains."

I am just throwing that in. Isn't it interesting how the .250 Savage matches the trajectory of the early .30-06. The .218 Bee matches the .30-06 and the .348. I'm drifting here….


J. R. Mattern

Handloading Ammunition 1926

"It's rifles have 16-inch twist, the original intention of which doubtless was to permit use of black powder if desired, as in .32-40, but which has proved useful in keeping down pressures, and in handling short bullets with accuracy at high velocities."

Velocity for velocity, pressures are lower than in .30-30, hence higher velocities can be realized with same weight bullets."

Matterns ballistic tables show; 170 grain bullet at 2,110 f. s. 165 grain bullet at 2,300 f. s. 110 grain bullets at 2550 f. s. The 165 grain velocity surprised me and bears looking into.


Ned Roberts

Big Game Hunting 1947

"While the catalogs and ballistic tables show the .32 Special cartridge to have practically the same ballistics as the .30-30, we find a lot of experienced hunters who proved, to their own satisfaction at least, that the .32 Special actually has somewhat better killing power on deer and similar big game. At the Hudson's Bay Company Trading Posts in the Canadian wilderness, many hunters and trappers, both white men and Indians prefer the .32 Special cartridge and rifle to the .30-30 which they formally used; these men are positive that they found the .32 Special a better killer and somewhat more accurate. Since these hunters and trappers 'live by and with the rifle', so to speak, and use it almost daily during the entire year instead of only for a week or two, their experience is worth considering."

"Charles Cottar, the noted African big game hunter, reported that he found the .32 Special a very good killer on African lions, and any rifle and cartridge that is good for such shooting surely must have ample power for killing white-tailed deer, unless the hunter is a very poor marksman; in that case, using a larger caliber rifle with its heavier recoil would result in poorer marksmanship."
 
#2 ·
Thanks for posting this. William is a great resource for shooters everywhere, and a nicer person I have not met.

Cottar must have bigger canoles than me, would not be going after lions, even if it is the cats meow!

When I used to go to the range the looks on peoples faces were priceless. Guys shooting for years would come up and look at me with sympathetic eyes, "30-30 huh?" "Well, no, this one is a 32 Special." "What?" Looking at the shells on the ground. "32 Special", "I thought that was a handgun round!?", "No, a rifle round." "Must be hard to find shells, huh?", "Well, in a way, but I reload, as a matter of fact these are on their fifteenth loading." "Lead bullets, wow, must be hard to keep your barrel clean, huh?" "Well I lube the buckshot with grease, they aren't going that fast." "You are shooting buckshot in that?" "Yeah two of them will really smack a ****."

It is something watching these guys who have spent their whole life shooting get a brand new concept in their mind about shooting. Its almost like you can see a bobcat chasing around the chickens between their ears. This is when they usually depart with a shrug, mumbling under their breath. Kinda funny.
 
#3 ·
Most often I have several levers with me at a public range and when someone comes over it's in their minds to "LET ME SHOOT IT" and I've hooked a lot of folks to the Marlin clan, just by letting them fire a few with the levergun. Reckon shooting the buckshot has got to be fun, I used to do it in a 30-30 when funds were so low I did not own a .22 well I did but I had a sticky fingered maggot in law, but then I shot a lot of small game with a 30-30.
 
#4 ·
Wow...I can't believe I'm finding this almost three weeks after it was posted.

Thanks a ton Swany! I have seen the McPherson article before, but most of the other stuff was new material. Both you and RIF's comments about range experiences are so true. I think the gun magazines have scared so many potential gun buyers, that even if they saw one in the used rack it wouldn't get a second look. Everything from it's the same as a 30-30, can't find ammo for it, older ones aren't accurate and the list goes on.

Anytime, anyone has showed an interest in my 32's while at the range I am more than happy to share. Unfortunately, even when they come away with an appreciation for a cartridge they have never heard of, they can't run to Walmart and buy one. Sadly, almost all of these people who thought the 32 Special was cool will never own one.
 
#5 ·
That was a good read, the same reason the 8x57 does so well in a bolt gun comp to a 06 on ave. I hate to say it I put a lot of surplus ammo through both but the German round had the edge. .32 cal might just be a sweet spot? with bullets from 150 to 196. love to try a 8mm 06 over a chrony though.
the diff is small but the bigger bore tends to shoot faster. ex ratio and such
just my findings thats all.
 
#6 ·
68Glenfield said:
.32 cal might just be a sweet spot?
I think you might be right about that 32 cal. I sure would like to see what a 32Marlin Express would do loaded with 175 grain gummy tips. I doubt you would see much difference between it and the 308/338ME, but it may help cure my 32itus. ::)
 
#7 ·
I have made a inquiry to a gunsmith who specializes in AI chamberings and he said the .32 AI would be easy and a .32/.307AI the same price. That would put the .32 in a new arena, make them .32 gummi tips run some ballistics unheard of.
 
#8 ·
Stop it Swany...I'm getting a little dizzy and breaking out into a cold sweat thinking about a .32/307. I know your gunsmith said it was easy, but the dies sometimes can be a killer. I'm thinking about a 35/30-30 right now, but I can't find dies any cheaper than $150.00. That's almost the cost of the re-bore.
 
#9 ·
It takes a good machinest with a small ID grinder around 15 minutes to bore a hardened die.

Some dies can be bored with a simple carbide reamer a little step at a time, carbide reamer say 3/8ths can be recut by a cutter grinder to any size you want. You do the seater first as it is larger, then the sizer after you have the reamer recut.

Thing is you have to think outside the box, a 30-30 is 52mm in length the same length as a .358 win, you could use them to reload the .35-30 of course a .32 die would be easier to bore out.
 
#10 ·
just found one I think a 60's vintage at a local pawn shop. guy wanted $400.00 forearm was loose etc.. action was clean clean bore and receiver. Just was not sure what to do with it. I may go back and look a bit harder at this one. thanks for the write up, gave me more knowledge than I had and certainly got me thinking about a 32 special.
 
#11 ·
Thanks for this thread Swany, I've been on the fence about tradin for a 1949 336sc in 32ws and this helped me make my decision.
T-Roy--once you get that 32 WSP--you will be glad that you have it! I love my 1949 336A 32 WSP and would never part with it.
 
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#12 ·
I don't think I used the proper button to ask a question but, I am new to this site and don't know the navigation yet. I do have a question though.... Can anyone date my Marlin 336 (in 32 Win Spl)? The serial number is F261XX. I'm now 50 years old and my Father bought this rifle used before I was born. It has been used by every male member of my family and has killed more deer than all of our other rifles combined. I had found some charts for serial numbers but had to join to view them and now that I have joined I can't seem to find them again. Any help or info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Doyle
 
#13 ·
Your rifle was made the same year as my 336A 32 WSP---1949. My rifle also has the same F prefix in the serial number.
 
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#14 ·
Thanks, Swany! I'm always a sucker for 32 Special info/history. Growing up I used my Dad's 1951 Model 94 in 32 Special for hunting here in ME. At least in my home town, you'd never know there was a 30-30! Seems every Model 94 was a 32 Win Spl. I remember the General Store carrying 32 Special, but we had to wait a week for 30-30 since it wasn't popular so he didn't stock it! LOL!!! We must have been a little microcosm of the US 32 Special market!
My son now uses that rifle hunting and he loves it.

Anyway, thanks again, Swany.

All my best,
Rob
 
#16 · (Edited)
I know this thread is a few years old, but in this quote from Ned Roberts toward the end of Swany's initial post reminded me of a friend:

Big Game Hunting 1947

"While the catalogs and ballistic tables show the .32 Special cartridge to have practically the same ballistics as the .30-30, we find a lot of experienced hunters who proved, to their own satisfaction at least, that the .32 Special actually has somewhat better killing power on deer and similar big game. At the Hudson's Bay Company Trading Posts in the Canadian wilderness, many hunters and trappers, both white men and Indians prefer the .32 Special cartridge and rifle to the .30-30 which they formally used; these men are positive that they found the .32 Special a better killer and somewhat more accurate. Since these hunters and trappers 'live by and with the rifle', so to speak, and use it almost daily during the entire year instead of only for a week or two, their experience is worth considering."
I had a friend who is passed now but was one of the men who tried to make a living in the thirties great depression by heading into the north woods of Saskatchewan to trap. He said he tried to get a .32 Spl. but the HBC were sold out and had a waiting list. He said he had to take a 30-30 but was always on the lookout for a 32. He also said he preferred Marlin to Winchester.
I knew him in the 70's and he was already in his eighties. Every young person should have an old man as a mentor, mine was Old Buck.

Hugh
 
#17 ·
I have enjoyed this thread and have little to add. I think that at the time 1894 Winchester was introduced, the .32-40 was a popular caliber, and a modernized, smokeless round of the same nominal bore would have made good marketing sense, because the .30 caliber hadn't really caught on yet. The bore/groove and rifling specs of .32 WS barrels is the same as for the .32-40, the only difference being in the chambering.

At the turn of the 20th Century reloading with smokeless powder was discouraged and people who wanted to cast bullets and reload cheaply with blackpowder could use the molds and tools they were familiar with.

With modern smokeless powder loads there is really little difference between the two cartridges, but the .32 WS enabled the manufacturers to use up the remaining .32-40 barrel blanks they had, and to use the same tooling to produce new barrels. The .32 caliber was already familiar and it make good marketing sense at the time. After WW1 when many surplus Krag rifles were sold inexpensively and veterans were familiar with the .30-'06 Springfield, the ".30 caliber" no longer seemed new and unfamiliar, and the .32 Special ensured a slow gradual decline until production of new rifles was discontinued in the mid-1960s.

I happen to prefer the .30-30, but there is not a thing wrong with the .32 WS. For any of you in West Virginia, there is a pre-1964 Winchester 94 in .32 WS with bright bore, used but not abused original condition, decent blue and wood on the used rack at Valley Guns II in Inwood,WV for $595, which is a fair price.

Somebody please buy the darned thing to remove the temptation!
 
#18 ·
Read the .32 W.S. write up in CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD. Barnes makes a good point on why would a handloader pay double the price of a 32-40 to get the "smokeless steel" .32 Special so he could use black powder and lead. . The old retired railroad man I used to hunt with in PA. had two rifles for deer, A Marlin 36 in .32 Special and a Remington pump in . 35 Remington.
 
#19 ·
I am not a .32 Spl guy but I ran into one the other day, Marlin 336, serial number D9968 on the lower tang.

The rifle is in very good shape and I just may have to pick it up for history sake, if I can get it for the right price.

Can anyone tell me when this venerable old rifle was manufactured?
 
#22 ·
1947 Buy that then see what it likes for ammo and stock up with at least 100. But do of course "Try it, you'll like it" might get a hold on you.
 
#26 ·
Just got my 1959 Marlin 336 SC 32 special in the mail today. Bought it from an older fellow. The gun was his family since it was bought in 1960 by his brother. I grew up with a Win 94 in 32 special but been searching for a Marlin for some time and finally found one (actually second one I found in a week, the other one sold before I got to it.) Anyway I'm happy I finally got my hands on one. Its in used condition and needs a little TLC. It has a crack in the stock, which I found once I disassembled it. Is it difficult to find replacement stocks for the SC? And would anyone know where i could find some. Thanks
 
#27 ·
I own and love to shoot a Win '94 in 32 Spl. If I ever find a 336 while the cash is in hand, it will be mine. Been stocking the 170 gr Core-Lokt and 165 gr LE - have not shot the LE yet, be interesting to see what the POI is compared to the Rem cartridges. It's a pre-angle eject so it will never get a scope as long as I own it, but a Williams aperture is not out of the question. Never can tell, if I never intend it to be an over 125 - 150 hunter, I won't ever bother changing the sights. I have other rifles for past 150 yds.

Long live the .32 Special!
 
#29 ·
I had a 32 Specia long before I ever owned a 30-30. I bought of the Winchester (USRA) Model 94 Wranglers (16" barrel, roll engraved receiver, large loop lever) in 32 Special (I believe the only caliber they came in) brand new in late 1983 or early 1984. Still have it, as well as the box and all the paperwork. It hasn't been shot much, but rode many miles in a gun rack in my pick-up, causing a slight wearing on the bluing on the barrel and some minor wear on the stock.

Didn't buy my first 30-30 until about 5 years ago.