[Redthies]

Thanks all. I'm going to look at someriflesthis Saturday. You know , look and come home with one. Where I hunt it gets pretty thick. I'm liking the 45LC for there. I'll let you all know if I get one. Thanks again.

If you are hunting with this rifle (duh), do yourself, and especially the DEER a favor, and go with a .44 Magnum over a .45 LC. The .44 mag puts out more than double the energy than the .45 does (unless you’re hand loading 454 Casull type loads. That is a HUGE difference in killing power.

 

[Redthies]

Pretty sure even though it and the 35 remington barely have shoulders including the 32 they are not considered straight walled cartridges IMHO it is just a way for anti hunters establish rules to limit hunting. Bottle neck cartridges Are associated with high power long distance rifles so to the un informed any bottle neck cartridge is bad MOJO to them. I understand that in high populated rural areas but if you look at list a lot of them out range the 30-30 by far.

I don’t think it’s a anti thing in all cases. It IS a Dumb thing though. If they are worried about effective range (overshooting targets), they should base the legal cartridges on velocity/energy, rather than case shape.

 

[M700]

Is that a Marlin clone or different on the inside?

The Henry is very similar to a Marlin, inside and out. There are differences, but it's a lot like a Marlin. No cross-bolt safety, which is interesting. And it can be loaded via the side-gate in the receiver, or through the magazine. Henry is built in the USA, and I'm impressed with the overall quality of them. I've shot 45-70, 360, 30-30 and the 357 magnum Henry rifles.

Regards, Guy

 

[Redthies]

The Henry is very similar to a Marlin, inside and out. There are differences, but it's a lot like a Marlin. No cross-bolt safety, which is interesting. And it can be loaded via the side-gate in the receiver, or through the magazine. Henry is built in the USA, and I'm impressed with the overall quality of them. I've shot 45-70, 360, 30-30 and the 357 magnum Henry rifles.

Regards, Guy

I own multiple Henrys, and am taking my .44 and .22 Henry’s to the range today to sight in new scopes. They are the nicest “out of the box” lever action rifles made today,with the new Marlins coming in second. My Henry’s are all pre side gate, but I don’t care. They are hunting tools, but I still like quality tools.

 

[Darkcloud]

I also have a 444 Marlin and 375 Winchester. If I hunt with those two I have to use cases that are cut to 1.8". The 444Marlin shoots a pattern with the short cases but the 375Win shoots just fine.

How do you size the 1.8” 444 brass? The straight taper case would be fairly wide at the new mouth. Do you seat the bullets to the OAL to 444’s 2.55”?

Your 1.8” case is halfway between a 44 magnum and a 444 marlin. Another fine cartridge in the MoleMan Magnum series, The 44 TM!

 

[Steve_In]

I don’t think it’s a anti thing in all cases. It IS a Dumb thing though. If they are worried about effective range (overshooting targets), they should base the legal cartridges on velocity/energy, rather than case shape.

In Indiana it was not at all antihunting. It is not straight wall either. Simple minimum (just a little longer than 38 Special) and maximum case length 1.8". .357 min cal. The .358 Hoosier was a bottleneck wildcat that was hitting 2750 FPS.

The success and popularity of these rounds and the safety opened the door to the use of high power. The old rules are still in place for public land. Funny thing is you can use a 300 Win Mag pistol. Those that are blessed with using whatever they want cannot imagine the opposition to allowing the use of anything but shotguns. They were out in force at the hearings to allow HPRs claiming no one would be safe anywhere in densely populated Indiana. They have been proven wrong every deer season.

 

[Moleman]

How do you size the 1.8” 444 brass? The straight taper case would be fairly wide at the new mouth. Do you seat the bullets to the OAL to 444’s 2.55”?

Your 1.8” case is halfway between a 44 magnum and a 444 marlin. Another fine cartridge in the MoleMan Magnum series, The 44 TM!

The necks need reamed or turned. I have a 44AMP case forming die so initially I'd just run the cut off cases into that and use that reamer tool, but eventually just got a .427" reamer use on the final trim. Sizing is an issue as well. Not all 444 dies will size a 1.8" case down far enough to get any neck tension. You can run them in a 444 sizer, then run the top .5"-.75" into a 44 mag die. Eventually I just bought a Lee 444 die set and trimmed them so they would work with the shorter cases. It's not hard to make a straightwall sizer die though. Bore the hole to whatever the neck dia needs to be, then add in the taper ending behind where you'll have the deepest seated bullet.

Top is a 444 Marlin with a 240 Rem sp. Then 444x1.8 (started out as the shorter Hornady brass) with a 265ftx. 44x1.8 AR15 load, AR308 and Mauser loads are a bit faster as you can seat the bullet out further which makes room for more powder. Next three are 44x1.6 (like a rimless 445SM with the same length and case capacity) 240speer, 225FTX, 265 Hornady. 44mag with 240 xtp that I shoot out of my 44S&W's and Marlin. 44 Havoc which I'll do a writeup on eventually.

 

[troutbum1]

Well ,I had a choice. Either ask my son for the Marlin 1895 guide in 45/70 or buy a new rifle. He loves the 45/70. I went to my local gun store and tried a bunch of rifles. I like the Mossberg Patriot in 350 legend, I bought it, now just waiting on the stinking government to OK the purchase. I have no police record, honorable discharge from the army. Sales
man said it could take a couple of days for them to get back. He also said I could pick it up 9/4/24 if they don't get back, what's that mean. I have never been turned down for a gun purchase. I hope they aren't screwing up.

 

[Steve_In]

Well ,I had a choice. Either ask my son for the Marlin 1895 guide in 45/70 or buy a new rifle. He loves the 45/70. I went to my local gun store and tried a bunch of rifles. I like the Mossberg Patriot in 350 legend, I bought it, now just waiting on the stinking government to OK the purchase. I have no police record, honorable discharge from the army. Sales
man said it could take a couple of days for them to get back. He also said I could pick it up 9/4/24 if they don't get back, what's that mean. I have never been turned down for a gun purchase. I hope they aren't screwing up.

It means there just may be a glitch in the system or someone else has the same name, MI and last name with a record and you are are just being held up.

I ALWAYS fill in my SS#. I have never been denied.

 

[rkcolt45]

Yup, I've grown quite fond of the 360 Buckhammer. Ballistics are similar to the respected 35 Remington, but from a real straight-wall cartridge case. It was created to meet the legal requirements for straight wall cases.

My best handloads have been getting just over 2300 fps with a 200 grain Hornady RNSP bullet. Accurate and a definite bump up in power over the 30-30. I haven't tried the higher BC 200 gr FTX bullet yet.

View attachment 977676

Am also impressed with Henry's 360 Buckhammer rifle.


Regards, Guy

I’ve held and shot Henry’s but they don’t appeal to me so I’ll never own a BH. I prefer my JM marlins and Winchesters. Since my state never required goofy cartridge restrictions I’ll keep using my 356 in my marlin and Winchester. Performance the 360BH can’t match.

 

[T.R.]

I've hunted deer in Maryland for over 15 years using a CVA Optima muzzle-loader rifle. Effective range for me is about 125 yards or so. Yes, its a single shot but has not hurt my success at all. You should consider a single shot rifle such as Henry or CVA Scout for a straight wall option. I've found across the decades of hunting, that one shot is typically all that is truly needed. Good hunting to you! - TR

 

[KenHo]

Let's not shoot into the bush to see what runs out. The judge might not see it as a straight wall cartridge.
Yes, I search it too and came with this. But how much or less of a bottle neck does cartridge qualifies as straight or bottle neck cartridge?
PS. come to think of it there isn't much of a bottle neck on a 35 Remington too.

Yes, the Winchester 30-30 is a straight-wall cartridge. It is based on the straight-walled.38-55 Winchester, necked down to hold.308-inch-diameter bullets1. It meets the legal requirements for a straight-wall cartridge case and provides ballistics similar to the.35 Remington2. The.360 is also based on a.30-30 casing that has been blown out to straight-wall and necked for larger.35-caliber bullets3.

Behind the Bullet: .30-30 Winchester | An Official Journal Of The NRA (americanhunter.org)

I searched the article linked above and could not find the "30-30 is a straight-wall cartridge" anywhere. Did I miss it somewhere?

 

[DieselDriver]

The necks need reamed or turned. I have a 44AMP case forming die so initially I'd just run the cut off cases into that and use that reamer tool, but eventually just got a .427" reamer use on the final trim. Sizing is an issue as well. Not all 444 dies will size a 1.8" case down far enough to get any neck tension. You can run them in a 444 sizer, then run the top .5"-.75" into a 44 mag die. Eventually I just bought a Lee 444 die set and trimmed them so they would work with the shorter cases. It's not hard to make a straightwall sizer die though. Bore the hole to whatever the neck dia needs to be, then add in the taper ending behind where you'll have the deepest seated bullet.

Top is a 444 Marlin with a 240 Rem sp. Then 444x1.8 (started out as the shorter Hornady brass) with a 265ftx. 44x1.8 AR15 load, AR308 and Mauser loads are a bit faster as you can seat the bullet out further which makes room for more powder. Next three are 44x1.6 (like a rimless 445SM with the same length and case capacity) 240speer, 225FTX, 265 Hornady. 44mag with 240 xtp that I shoot out of my 44S&W's and Marlin. 44 Havoc which I'll do a writeup on eventually.

View attachment 977873

Where the dickens do you find 265g Hornady SP? That's a great bullet but not available locally. I thought that Hornady stopped making them, choosing to make the FTX instead. And the FTX doesn't do well in my micro-groove Marlin .444.

 

[StretchNM]

This might not help the discussion, but it's been bugging me. When did they change the acronym "SWC" from Semi-Wadcutter to "Straight-Wall Cartridge"? I admit to being a little out of touch so I guess I missed it.

 

[Moleman]

Where the dickens do you find 265g Hornady SP? That's a great bullet but not available locally. I thought that Hornady stopped making them, choosing to make the FTX instead. And the FTX doesn't do well in my micro-groove Marlin .444.

They've made at lease one batch of them a couple years ago since discontinuing it. I stocked up as it is the best overall 444 bullet I've tried on deer. The ftx does fine in my microgrrove 444, but I don't like having to trim brass for it. It's also too long for some of the wildcats where you're already limited by COL. I thought Furry Bullets had a clone, but don't see it on their site. Hawk Bullets has a 265 innerlock clone though. The next time they make another run of them if they ever do I'd stock up. I know I'll likely get another 1000.

 

[dghal]

Troutbum1
Well thats a dissapontment you have to wait on a rifle purchase,

I am on the definate NO,,,, 30-30 is not straight walled case,

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Scharnhorst]

Straight wall case is an accurate description of what a cartridge case looks like, and a bottle neck of any kind does not look like a straight wall. Regardless of what is written or not written, it is best to stay with what is observable -- straight wall means straight wall.

 

[308/338]

They've made at lease one batch of them a couple years ago since discontinuing it. I stocked up as it is the best overall 444 bullet I've tried on deer. The ftx does fine in my microgrrove 444, but I don't like having to trim brass for it. It's also too long for some of the wildcats where you're already limited by COL. I thought Furry Bullets had a clone, but don't see it on their site. Hawk Bullets has a 265 innerlock clone though. The next time they make another run of them if they ever do I'd stock up. I know I'll likely get another 1000.

Try to remember to post when Hawk Bullets makes a ran on their 444 265gr. FN projectiles. I'm sure other T4 owns might want a few boxes too, I for one do.
As for now I find the Hornady .430" 300gr. XTP work in my SWC T4.
Don't mean to highjack this thread even though I'm still talking about a straight wall cartridge.
TO NY🗽
Edit. PS. there is a fellow member here from England who loads HDY's .430" 225 gr. FTX projectiles T4 cartridges a dose well on small Asian deer in hie neck of the woods. I have meant to buy a box and load up to see how my 1972 T4 enjoys them.

 

[308/338]

Hey, Moleman don't worry about 444 brass just yet, HDY. and Starline still sells NIB 444 brass.
I come to a conclusion that's it's cheaper to buy a box of 250 ct. 444 brass and trim down what you need.
Tony

 

[Darkcloud]

if anyone is interested in building a bolt action straight wall rifle, I will have an unfired Savage barrel chambered in 400 Legend up for sale soon. I bought the rifle as a donor for a 6.8 SPC project.