Oh boy. Hold on!

So, yes, if you can shoot a good bullet in good places. I would choose another option if I had one but if that's what you have, go with heavier hunting rounds and inside 200yds. That's me. Like I said, hold on. Opinions are inbound for sure.

 

OK I'm not trying to ruffle your feather but I have been kicking this around a long time. The last time I read a NYS game regulation booklet it stated any center fire rifle for big game. I have a Remington 788 223 Rem. and always though of using it as a back up rifle for deer. I was browsing online for 223 ammo for deer and there are some good choices.
But would like to know your thoughts or experience deer hunting with small caliber center fire rifle.

I worked up a .223 load for my young daughter and nephew to use on whitetail. 60gr nosler partition @3000fps. She didn’t get a shot this past season but my young nephew did. He killed a mature deer with 1 shot at 160 yds Broadside. His shot hit the heart and made a complete pass through resulting in a instant kill. Stick with a partition or solid copper projectile and keep it in the vitals. The 77 gr. hog hammer copper solid is good too, but some rifles will not stabilize it, mine Remington 700 won’t. I prefer a 30-06 with 180 gr partition. But I would not hesitate to use .223 with the right projectile.

 

That is the exact rifle my cousin hunted deer with in Northern California... The only rifle he hunted deer with... Never missed and never tracked more than 50 yards...

 

I've shot a truckload of Oregon Blacktail deer with a 223 and 60 gr. Nosler.
Keep them in the chest cavity and they're DRT.

 

Not my first choice but I won't second guess your decision if you're confident in your choice. 35 years ago when all I had was a Savage 340 in 222 Rem and a Ruger Blackhawk, the Savage took several deer before I could afford an '06

 

I've had good success on mule deer and antelope with the Sierra 65 grain btsp. Pop the balloons (lungs) and they won't go far.

 

Speer makes a 70 gr. JSP that has proven effective - but I've picked my shots and haven't exceeded +/-150 yds. I am however, MUCH more comfortable with my .257 Roberts, 30-30, .308, 30-06, .41 mag. OR my 45-70.
The ONLY thing I hate worse than missing, is to wound a deer and have to track it!

WYT-P
Skyhunter

 

Not a first choice but a decent one if you place your bullet. I've done it with 222 Rem, 223 Rem, and hopefully soon with a 218 Bee. I know the pitchforks will come out, but I have never lost an animal with a 22 CF. I'm 100% proficient with a 22 CF with deer. I cannot say the same with a bow, but I still bow hunt. So, start stabbing.

 

Never lost one either. I've used 223 and 22/250 with the old Federal red box 55 grain soft point. Killed big mulies too. I have never had a problem. Most that doubt the effectiveness simply have never tried it. I've heard the same about my pet 243 load. 85 grain Sierra bthp game king. To small for rutted up mulies. Good thing all them bucks didn't know I was shooting that 243, they died as fast as the ones I've shot with a 270.

 

Gentlemen, just because you can, doesn't mean you should. We should be setting an example for all the new, inexperienced hunters out there.

 

A .223 with a 55 gr soft point and standard behind the shoulder shot, kills effectively, newcomer or not.

 

I know a .22-250 will do very well with 55 gr. Speer.

 

I have worked up a load a few years ago using the Speer 70 gr. JSP 224" but drop the idea because the unknown results it would have on deer. I was rethinking of reloading the Spr. 70 gr again and thought I browse. It seems major ammunition manufacturers are all in on 223 Rem. for deer loads. I read an article on these 223 Rem. deer hunting ammo and it's very convincing.

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is one of those questions that if you have to ask, you need a lot more information than you realize.

I'll give it a shot.

The problem here is not the caliber, but the choice of the bullet. And not the bullet weight, but the strength of the bullet's construction. Some bullets are intended for small varmints and will expand so quickly that they essentially disintegrate in a prairie dog sized critter. These are likely to "blow up" before they penetrate deeply enough to reach the vitals, causing only a disabling wound but allowing the deer to escape. Others will not expand at all. What you would want is a bullet that will begin to expand after penetrating 6-8 inches and then stay intact to penetrate deep enough to pass through the other side of a deer sized animal.

Most bullets in the heavier range for a caliber are constructed more heavily than the lighter ones. But not always. You will need to research your bullet on the manufacturer's website, online, calling the manufacturer, or possibly online. Check several places for consistency.

Don't just pick a heavy bullet. You could end up with a VLD boat tail hollow point intended for shooting targets at 800-1000 yards. These will not reliably expand, and they are not even tested for expansion, even though they are in the 70-90gr range, heavy for the caliber. Nor are they likely to be accurate for you, unless your barrel is rifled with a fast 6-7" twist.

It is within the realm of acceptably ethical hunting practice to use a .223 for hunting whitetail deer if you use a proper bullet and select your shots.

But if you're not going to properly research and find a proper bullet, the answer is "No, the .223 is not suitable for hunting deer sized game."

 

You said "backup deer rifle" So may I ask what's your primary deer rifle ? As to original question my answer is "If it's all I had"

 

I have rifles in 35 rem. 358 w. 356 w. 44 cal. 30-30 W. 308expr. 338expr. 30-06 Spfd. 300 Win. 12 ga. I can use any of these calibers if choose too. But that's not my point. I read enough to realize the importance of the construction of a .224" bullet to be ethical used on deer. I bought a 35R-xlr and since then it has been my go to deer rifle. Now NYS southern zone where rifle are allowed deer aren't big and shots are close. Heck a doe would have stepped on my foot one season if don't move, no joke. Like I said I have been kicking using my Rem. 788 223 Rem for years and I'm interested in hearing about peoples experience and opinions. Do you have one?

 

.223 - 65 grain V-Max out a 16" barrel on my DPMS - AR, at 50 yards... You shoot a critter in the ear, and all you will see in the scope when you squeeze the trigger, is a cloud of red vapor. And, when you walk over there, the top of it's head, and all of it's brains, will have vanished.

Damnedest thing I've ever seen looking through a scope!

 

.223 - 65 grain V-Max out a 16" barrel on my DPMS - AR, at 50 yards... You shoot a critter in the ear, and all you will see in the scope when you squeeze the trigger, is a cloud of red vapor. And, when you walk over there, the top of it's head, and all of it's brains, will have vanished.

Damnedest thing I've ever seen looking through a scope!

Got this big one last year. guts everywhere. "Only good gopher is a dead gopher I say" Bill Murray

 

223 would not be my first choice but hit em where it counts and caliber doesn't matter too much. Bullet selection is critical though.

 

I'm from the no side of the argument. No .22 Centerfires. We all know it's been done. But, no at this house. Deer cartridges start at 7mm, and on up from there. You've got to be able to shoot end-to-end through a big Black Hills buck, not every time, but should the need arise. Don't choose your hunting cartridge for the best case scenario, choose it for the emergency, the one in a thousand worst case situation. Even for backup rifle, a full caliber weapon is preferred.

Shot placement is always the most important factor in a kill. I can't stress that enough.

 

I'm from the no side of the argument. No .22 Centerfires. We all know it's been done. But, no at this house. Deer cartridges start at 7mm, and on up from there. You've got to be able to shoot end-to-end through a big Black Hills buck, not every time, but should the need arise. Don't choose your hunting cartridge for the best case scenario, choose it for the emergency, the one in a thousand worst case situation. Even for backup rifle, a full caliber weapon is preferred.

Shot placement is always the most important factor in a kill. I can't stress that enough.

I will disagree on the 7mm min as the 6.5's are pretty solid deer numbers. As good as anything I have seen. Tried a 243 and got deer with it and had one failure on a shoulder shot an don't use one anymore. Bullet was a Nosler partition. Then there is the issue of white tails themselves. Midwestern whitetails like we encounter and are being referred to can get pretty hefty. Whitetails I generally shoot also have a very heavy winter coat and a buildup of fat. Don't leave blood good blood trails. Due to the size with weights getting up over 250 on some bucks, I prefer not to use the small cartridges like a 223. I think the popularity of the AR's determined their legality as now in MN if its a center fire you can use it. Before they were not legal. It is one of those issues where I basically have no need to use one. I have too many backup rifles already. Some states especially in the hotter climates have smaller deer and i admit that we have permit deer or non antlered deer as options. I just see no need to use one.

DEP

 

I love the indignation of people telling others what they should or shouldn't do or what is or isn't responsible.

But "primitive" weapons seasons are fine even though we've come a long way from those terrible options of silly peoples of the past. I mean just because you CAN shoot a deer with an arrow DOESN'T mean you should!

A well constructed, high velocity bullet put in the vitals will bring down a deer. So will driving them off a cliff, hit with a rock, spear, arrow, flint lock, percussion cap, rim fire and now center fire firearms. Now I am sure we can ALL reserve any indignation and start a new thread on the fools who shoot deer with pistols/revolvers. I mean fer realz. Jeez!

The OP has lots of options. One of them is an interesting exercise he intends to research and execute. Update the thread. Post pics!

 

I love the indignation of people telling others what they should or shouldn't do or what is or isn't responsible.

But "primitive" weapons seasons are fine even though we've come a long way from those terrible options of silly peoples of the past. I mean just because you CAN shoot a deer with an arrow DOESN'T mean you should!

A well constructed, high velocity bullet put in the vitals will bring down a deer. So will driving them off a cliff, hit with a rock, spear, arrow, flint lock, percussion cap, rim fire and now center fire firearms. Now I am sure we can ALL reserve any indignation and start a new thread on the fools who shoot deer with pistols/revolvers. I mean fer realz. Jeez!

The OP has lots of options. One of them is an interesting exercise he intends to research and execute. Update the thread. Post pics!

No need for name calling. Some of your points I agree with. My primitive sharp stick can, will and have been driven through a cape buffalo. Show me the 223 Remington hunting bullet that can do that.

Guess I'd be a super fool in your book. I have not shot any deer, yet, with a 357 Magnum but I have hogs and elk. Both the hog and elk where previously shot with small calibers, 243 win and 6.5 Creed respectively. It's easy to shrug off an animal that runs away. It's different when you witness firsthand the cruel wounding of an irresponsible choice.

 

I am also learning about different projectiles from folks that do use the .223 which is very educational.

 

I read about an old-timer who shot more than 30 elk---one shot kills--using the Savage 250-3000 with 60 grain bullets. Ballisics not too different from a .223 with 60grain. The guy who owns Longshot hunted African game with a 220 swift---https://m.facebook.com/longshotammo/--check out his mounts.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to reccomend the 60gr. Nosler Partition or Barnes 50 to 55 gr. TSX as I have used both on deer and hogs. Keep it under 200 yds. or so and be able to place it where it should go. I've never recovered one from an animal because they were all in and out. Here's a 60gr. Partition on the left and 53gr. TSX on the right from Bullet Test Tubes. One of the largest hogs I've ever taken was with a Rem700 223 and 60gr. Partition. She was running full speed right to left at about 50 yds. At the shot she stumbled 3 or 4 more steps and went down in a cloud of dust. In the left shoulder and out behind the ribs on the right side. She weighed almost 300 lbs! The 223 is easy to shoot well- just use a good bullet.

 

In years gone by I shot many Roe Deer with a 22-250 with 55gr bullets speer and Nosler. This was a heavy barreled double triggered varmint rifle, now with an 26" Douglas match grade varmint barrel in 22-250 ai. A rifle I have supreme confidence in. I never lost a deer, but do I use it now NO, its set up as my daylight fox rifle with 52gr hp molly coated at 4100fps. Am I a better shot now as back then probably not, in those days I thought I could walk on water..
I take a great deal of interest in terminal ballistics in the game larder and hand load all my CF ammo. If I were just sitting up a tree stand for a fox or roe deer, 243 would get the nod. Just for deer 7x57, 270 light bullets, 30-30, 308. I have a good dog to track but as has been said use enough gun for when things go wrong. Your call Gar.

 

Guys I grow up in a time when hunters were buying 30-06 for deer hunting and the 30-30 was thought as inadequate. My godfather swore by his BAR 308 to be just right for deer. He told my brother's friend how inadequate his Win. 94 30-30 was. Well after a long day posted in a wonderful damp cool place I heard what sound like a semi- auto rifle. It was already getting dark so walked out to the car. There was my brothers, godfather and friend [ yes they were all alive then] and the deer all shot up. Someone asked Larry why did you shoot so many times? He replied, Sonny [my godfather] for the past two day told me how inadequate a 30-30 was I thought the bullets would bounce off. True story.

I wonder what my godfather would say today?

 

I should have used the sarcasm font. Or emojis.

 

So much emotion in the thread, so little actual experience. 30 years ago I took my CAR-15 to Kodiak Island for deer. I took five deer with six shots, shot the first one twice “just to make sure” but it really didn’t need a second hit. The load was a Nosler 60-grain SolidBase (predecessor to the BallisticTip) at 2772 fps. Distances ranged from 50 yards to 150 yards, all hits were in the heart/lung area. Except for one which dropped at the shot, the rest didn’t react to the hit and just continued what they had been doing - for about five seconds when they tipped over. Tracking wasn’t an issue, and only one bullet was recovered (at 150 yards it went through the lungs stopping under the hide on the off side - perfectly expanded).

Odd animal reactions compared with what I was used to, but effective under these conditions: stationary deer; perfect broadside shots; not in thick brush. I’ve never used a .223 since and I don’t recommend it, but who the he!! am I to tell someone else what they can or cannot use to hunt deer?




.

 

Gotta disagree on the experience statement. Some of the posters in this thread and in the other 223 Rem MO threads have outlined their actual hunting experiences. I can't hunt big game with a 22 caliber cartridge in my state--so I don't have an opinion. I am enjoying the discussion though. Only big game I was allowed to hunt with a 223/5.56 were bad guys in AF/IZ.

 

I question whether many of the heavy bullets would work in an old 788 Remington. Might be an old 1-14 twist or so. Made for the 55 grain grain standard load. Some claim the Barnes 50 grain will work but the 55 will not. As for the 220 Swift in Africa, read Rourke. Inspired him to write Use Enough Gun. He crippled a few animals with his Swift and quit using it. Bullets blew up. A good 55 grain in a 223 would probably work but and has taken game. Guy by the name Finn Aagard wrote on his experiences seeing a 223 used when he was guiding. Claimed that it killed pretty fair but tracking was difficult as it left poor trails. This was on Texas deer which are smaller than midwestern deer.

DEP

 

You bring up a good point about slow rifle twist. My 223 has a 1:12 twist. It doesn't really like bullets much over 60gr, it's difficult to get decent groups. With wildlife managers ever pushing towards non-toxic bullets (sounds like an oxymoron), copper projectiles are longer for the same weight and need faster twist barrels. The higher RPM of a faster twist, and subsequent greater centrifugal force on the bullet, also, helps the bullet expand.