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.22 LR Black Powder adventure

23K views 21 replies 13 participants last post by  pacificpt  
#1 · (Edited)
I've always wanted to step back in time and test some original .22LR black powder cartridges to see how they would have performed back in the late 1800’s, early 1900’s in a levergun. Not too long ago I came across an old 2 piece box of early .22 LR cartridges. Most all the writing on the box was gone, but I could barely make out "UMC" on the bottom edge. I pulled one of the bullets and found that they were b.p. cartridges.

As the pic shows, the lube was dried out and there is some tarnishing of the copper case. Thankfully, they cleaned up ok. I used a toothbrush to clean off the dry lube and a bore brush to clean off the cartridge case. I then relubed with SPG.

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The test rifle was a 39A Marlin made in 1948 equipped with a tang sight and an 8X vintage Weaver scope.

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Well.......tried to fire a couple of the original UMC .22 b.p. cartridges, but click, click....priming compound is "deader than a doornail". I wasn't totally surprised, just a bit disappointed.

So......I spent a couple of hours cleaning and pulling bullets and powder from the UMC cartridges. Thankfully the case was not crimped into the bullet heel so the heel was not distorted in the process.

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Bullet diameter .225" Weight: 40 grs.
factory powder compression: .035"

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After loading the 4.5 grs. of the original powder into Armscor* cases, I seated the U.M.C. bullets with a Lyman H&I .225 die.

10 loaded and ready to go
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I shot 10 of the assembled b.p. cartridges at my clubs’ 50 ft. indoor range since the weather wasn't too good outdoors at the time and I was anxious to test them.

They worked great ....just loaded 10 in the tube of my Marlin 39A (1948) and fired 2 groups of 5.

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With the earlier success at 50 feet, I next wanted to try them at 50 yards which I was able to do a few weeks later. The Temp was 50F and it was a bit breezy (10-20 mph winds) but being a bit anxious, I decided to venture forth and shoot each shot when there was a lull in the wind.

Here are the two targets made with the 100+ year old component(s) that were loaded into Armscor* cases. I also tried 4.5 grs SWISS 4F with the UMC bullets which produced the group on the right. I was very pleased with the results. My reason for choosing SWISS is that it was the only b.p. that would not “foul out” in previous testing in the 32 Colt, 357, 44-40 and 45 Colt leverguns.

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(Later testing with Swiss Null B which is finer than 4F went very well (100 yards target below).
Average velocity was 1,140 f.p.s.)

The next step was to find a suitable .22 mold to enable me to produce .22 LR black powder ammunition.
I had 3 different molds.....an early 225438 that weighed 42 grs., a new 225438 (45 grs) and a NEI 45 (45 grs.) in w.w. +2% tin alloy. In testing the old style 225438 proved to be the most accurate.

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Ideally, the gas check shank should measure .209” or so for a snug fit into the .22 LR Armscor* case. The gc shank on that bullet measures .213” which then requires the case mouths to be flared prior to the bullet being seated. The loaded round is then run nose first into a 225” H&I die to restore the o.d. of the case back to its original dimension. I would use that mold in the short term, but a new mold would make things much easier and more consistant, so I made a drawing of the UMC bullet and sent it to David Mos to have a mold made to replicate it.

While waiting for the mold to arrive, I wanted to find out how many b.p. rounds the .22 Marlin could fire before accuracy might start to degrade using the 225438 lubed with SPG and propelled by 4.5 grs; of Swiss. So…after having shot 50 rounds of 3 different recipies (4.5 Swiss 4F, 4.5 Swiss Null B and 5.0 Swiss 4F) on Cowboy Silhouettes & other targets with no cleaning nor blow tubing, I fired rounds 51-58 (last of the cartridges) using 4.5/ Swiss Null B on this target to see if the fouling from the previous 50 rounds was having an affect on accuracy. Thankfully, it didn’t.

I was using the tang sight in this test since scopes are not permited in NRA Cowboy Silhouette. Accuracy was about as good as the 1948 vintage 39A with a tang sight will do with target .22 ammunition and my 67 year old eyes.

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Now hopefully, that David Mos mold will arrive soon. I want to shoot b.p. in NRA Cowboy Small Bore Silhouette....just like those that have gone before us would have done if that competition was in existence 100+ years ago.

* Armscor .22 LR primed cases were available from THE HUNTING SHACK but I do not see them listed anymore. Previously, I removed bullets and powder from loaded .22 LR ammuniton to get cases

UPDATE.....
The KT22LR mold finally arrived and I made some bullets. The mold and bullet pics are courtesy of "Baja Traveler" who also ordered a mold.
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I loaded them up over 4.5 gr of Swiss 4F and fired 10 rounds at 100 yards. I was very pleased with the results.
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Now to load more for the upcoming NRA Cowboy Silhouette matches this year.:biggrin:

w30wcf
 
#5 ·
A fascinating, well-written, well-presented report!
Very interesting results.
I have every American Rifleman magazine made from 1929 to last month's issue, about 900 issues. Some years ago, in one of those magazines, I read that the last American copper-cased .22 rimfire ammo was made by Remington in 1948. Amazing that it was made so late, but it's a good benchmark to remember.
I have a soup can full of old .22 rimfire cartridges, given me years ago. They're all assorted manufacturers and most oif them lost the outside lubricant years ago.
I scrutinized them when first received, looking for particularly old cartridges for my collection, but they all seemed rather ordinary: Peters, Winchester, Federal, etc.
One clue to the age of a rimfire case: The earliest had designs or letters that were raised above the surface of the base. I understand that, by the early 1880s, designs and letters on rimfires began to be impressed into the case, instead of raised above it. I may be wrong on this date, but from what I've observed the earliest rimfires do, indeed, have raised designs and lettering.
Anyway, this is off-topic but I find it interesting. Others with old cartridges may benefit from the 1948 benchmark and raised vs. impressed lettering info.

I very much enjoyed your report. Interesting that the ammo was so accurate. Though you could not use the original priming, I doubt that would have been a factor affecting accuracy.
I particularly enjoyed the good photos, and the foresight to photograph the old powder on a grid.
Good job.
 
#8 ·
Guys and Catherine,

Thank you for the kind words. I'm glad that you enjoyed it. I did as well.

Gatofeo,
Thank you for the acknowledgement and history lesson. Interesting. ;D

Miller6457,
It is somewhat noticeable but not too much. However, if there is no wind and 10 shots were fired in rapid succession, there would be a bit of a cloud......

Mr Merde,
http://thehuntingshack.com/ is where I found mine but, unfortunately, they are no longer listed. You could contact them and enquire if they are getting any more. Prior to finding the Armscor cases, I was removing bullets from 22 ammo to get the cases.

w30wcf
 
#9 ·
WOW - great thread - well done, I found it very interesting.

I didn't know .22 LR came in black powder originally, always (incorrectly) assumed it was a smokeless round.

The smallest BP calibre I have seen here in Australia, and fired, is the .297/230 in the Francotte Cadet.
A few members of my local BP club shoot, heck some even cast projectiles and reload the little rounds just for fun. :D

Thankyou for sharing 30wcf 8)

That is also interesting you use 4F Swiss in your other rifles. I have a .44-40 and have been using Wano black powder in PPP (slightly finer grade that FFFg) but for accuracy at 50m I have to clean the barrel every 4th or 5th shot. I'm going to have to save up ($90-$120 a kg) and buy a container of Swiss 4F and try it (if I can find some) :)
 
#10 ·
HotShot2,
Thank you for your interest and acknowledgement. The .22LR was first loaded with b.p. when it was introduced in 1888 and for the next 10 years or so when the first semi-smokeless was used followed by smokeless. I believe all three were offered until the late 1920's after which only semi-smokeless and smokeless were factory offered. Semi-smokeless continued on for another 10 years or so and by WWII only smokeless remained.

Regarding the 44-40, I would strongly recommend SWISS 2FG. 36.0 grs by weight will deliver 1,300 f.p.s. with fine accuracy for many rounds - 50+ with no loss of accuracy with a 2 groove bullet filled with SPG.

SWISS 3FG was a bit too warm producing velocities in the low 1,400 f.p.s. (!) range which is 10% faster than the original 44-40 b.p. round. Swiss 4F would be hotter still so it definitely should not be used in the 44-40.

w30wcf
 
#11 ·
Thanks for your reply 30wcf - and sorry to go off-topic.

I currently use 30g of Wano PPP grade black (slightly finer that FFFg) behind a 205g cast projectile.

It's deadly accurate at 25m and okay but the groups do open up a bit after 3-5 shots due to fouling at 50m.
 
#12 ·
HotShot2 said:
Thanks for your reply 30wcf - and sorry to go off-topic.

I currently use 30g of Wano PPP grade black (slightly finer that FFFg) behind a 205g cast projectile.

It's deadly accurate at 25m and okay but the groups do open up a bit after 3-5 shots due to fouling at 50m.
If you try Swiss FFG, you will find that accuracy will be maintained for many rounds. It has for me.
Here's a target with shots 31-40 fired at 100 yards into a nice group with no cleaning from start to finish.....
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,38641.0.html

w30wcf
 
#13 ·
WOW that's some really mighty fine shooting there - well done.

And those are some really nice bullets too.

I've only got a LEE mould RNFP in .429 dia - hopefully I can get some Swiss in a month or two, I can't wait to give it a go.
 
#14 ·
HotShot2 said:
WOW that's some really mighty fine shooting there - well done ........I've only got a LEE mould RNFP in .429 dia - hopefully I can get some Swiss in a month or two, I can't wait to give it a go.
Thank you for the kind words. I think you will be surprised at how much better Swiss will work in not "fouling out" your barrel. Thus it works very well also in the .22 LR. I don't have the Lee mold but I know that it has two lube grooves like the 427098. I am using SPG lube but other good b.p. lubes would likely work as well.

I did try Schuetzen powder which, I believe is the same or close to Wano and it "fouled out" with the 427098 in short order. Swiss works so much better in a repeating rifle due to the type of wood they use for charcoal (Alder Buckthorn) which allows the powder to be moist burning. Preparation of the charcoal is extremely important.

If you have a bit of time you can read about the process here. THere is also a comparison between Swiss, Wano and Goex.
http://www.laflinandrand.com/madmonk/Swiss_Booklet.pdf

The recent lot of KIK (2009 and later) appears to work well also. THey use the same type of charcoal. I loade 25 rounds and all were accurate with no foul out. Next I am going to try 50 rounds and see what happens.

w30wcf
 
#15 ·
Original post updated with the KT22LR mold. :biggrin:
 
#16 ·
200 yards

A few months ago, I decided to try the b.p. .22 ammo at 200 yards. Historically speaking, the initial purpose of the .22 L.R. in the late 1800's was 200 yard target shooting.

So...... I took a 1/2 scale steel ram (body width 6") and set it at 200 yards. It took several shots to get the elevation. The wind was coming in from 9 o'clock at varying speeds which accounted somewhat for the group being a bit elongated. Even so, the b.p. cartridges performed well.:biggrin:

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w30wcf
 
#17 ·
I suspect you were fortunate the original rounds did not fire as I would expect corrosive priming. Good work with what is a seldom reloaded caliber, the first time I ever heard of .22 being reloaded. I think the very early Hornets had a .222 barrel you may find a mold for that. To combat fowling you could do as Pope did and duplex with a little bit of smokeless. Great post, thank you.
 
#20 ·
Hello:
Since its pretty easy to pick up fired 22 lr cases that are still shiny at shootin ranges couldnt You just apply the primer compound inside the spent case and let dry then reload and shoot it again as long as you didnt hit the original fire pins strike ?
Is there even a primer mix that can be painted and let dry for a rim fire reprime ?
Just thinkin.
Head Shot
 
#21 · (Edited)
oops
duplicate post
 
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