Depends on what you want to use it for. The 218 Bee is a sweet cartridge for varmints. I have an 1894 Marlin in 218 Bee - very accurate and easy to shoot.

The 219 Zipper pushes a heavier bullet at higher velocities. It's no hammer but it can take medium sized game. I opted to have a 219 Donaldson Wasp built rather than the the Zipper. With the Donaldson Wasp I can replicate Savage 22 Hi-Power performance which exceeds the Zipper.

My choice between the Zipper and the Bee is the Bee. It's the bee's knees.

T.S.

 

Depends on what you want to use it for. The 218 Bee is a sweet cartridge for varmints. I have an 1894 Marlin in 218 Bee - very accurate and easy to shoot.

The 219 Zipper pushes a heavier bullet at higher velocities. It's no hammer but it can take medium sized game. I opted to have a 219 Donaldson Wasp built rather than the the Zipper. With the Donaldson Wasp I can replicate Savage 22 Hi-Power performance which exceeds the Zipper.

My choice between the Zipper and the Bee is the Bee. It's the bee's knees.

T.S.

T.S.

Ditto on the 219 DW option to get the most velocity. However, for tube feeding the bullet selection is limited. The tube feed bullets I can think of are the 45 gr Hornady 218 bee flat hollow point, Speer 45 gr flat point, and Speer 35 gr HP. I do not think the old 70 gr round nose bullets are still in production.

Additionally, EABCO sells formed 219 DW cases ready for final fire forming. However, the EABCO cases are the long version of the DW. Yes, there are two versions of the wildcat cartridge. Take it from my experience from a single shot build, it is best to send a dummy round with the bullet you plan to use to make sure there is no rework on the chamber cut. The only good thing from my experience is that it is much easier to take more steel out of the chamber than needing to add some back.

 

I’m personally a big bore man, 375, 38-55, 44, 444, 45-70, so on. But I badly want a 218 Bee and cannot explain why either. If I’m not mistaken it’s the necked down 3030? I was digging through some used brass at a shop once and found some “ruined” 3030 cases and couldn’t figure out why someone would do that until I learn about the Bee

 

Yes sir! I have a lot of the Big Bore rifles, but something about that 218 Bee, it is just awesome! Plus, you do not see many people who have them! That and a 41Mag will hopefully be added to the safe soon.

Shep

 

The Zipper is the necked down 30 30 on the “larger action” 336 frame. The Bee is in the 25 20 and 32 20 family on the “smaller” 1894 frame. I would love to have either.

 

Warning! I have 2 rifle in 32-20. addiction is possible.

 

218 Bee was chambered in the 92 Winchester. 32 20 case. Had a certain popularity in TC Contenders. I have had a 22 hornet which is close, maybe 100 fps less and enjoyed it. Got a bear with a neck shot a deer and various varmints. Kind of wish I still had one, but mostly for nostalgia as I had it in my late teens early 20s and am now 74. 223 bolt action is cheaper to shoot, more practical on varmints and far more accurate than a lever.
I carried a 32 20 on my tractor tor and quad and used some but switched to a 22 magnum. 32 20 was easier on small game.
The hornet was fun to shoot, if you like paper.

DEP

 

If you
are going to reload, you might want to consider the mashburn bee. You can shoot regular bee in it but it has an improved shoulder which is supposed to help reduce case damage in reloading. Using boat tail bullets helps about the same.

 

If you
are going to reload, you might want to consider the mashburn bee. You can shoot regular bee in it but it has an improved shoulder which is supposed to help reduce case damage in reloading. Using boat tail bullets helps about the same.

Thank for the S2, Haman!!!

 

Personally, I am a 218 Bee fan. Owning a Marlin 1894, Browning 65, Ruger no.1, and Winchester 43. The Bee is a necked down 32-20 case. It was originally chambered in the Winchester model 65 and 43. It was said to be chambered in the Winchester model 92, but I only seen two in person in my entire life of gun collecting and both were fakes. Model 65 barrels were fitted to 92 actions and a 92 stamped over the 65. I have seen pics of additional fakes online. Being obsessed with this cartridge for over 25 years I've yet to see an original model 92 chambered in 218 Bee.

 

Interesting. I have a Winchester book and looked it up. The 65 is a 92 action but with a pistol grip from what I saw. Later development. I have a Marlin 94 CL in 32 20 that was also made in 25 20 and 218 Bee. A better action for that type of cartridge as it is easily scoped.
It would be a fun cartridge, depending on where one lives and opportunities.

DEP

 

I reload 218 Bee. Haven't had any problems with brass damage.

Pappy, I have the longer version of the Donaldson Wasp so I do make sure I get the appropriate brass. I was introduced to EABCO when I couldn't find 375 Win. brass. EABCO will make it out of new 30-30 brass mechanically modified, not fire-formed. I have always had good luck with it, even when using full house loads.

On the left is my BEE, to the right is my Wasp.

T.S.

 

I reload 218 Bee. Haven't had any problems with brass damage.

Pappy, I have the longer version of the Donaldson Wasp so I do make sure I get the appropriate brass. I was introduced to EABCO when I couldn't find 375 Win. brass. EABCO will make it out of new 30-30 brass mechanically modified, not fire-formed. I have always had good luck with it, even when using full house loads.

On the left is my BEE, to the right is my Wasp.
View attachment 957543
Who did the barrel work on the wasp? Be a really cool deer rifle with a faster twist barrel

T.S.

 

I also reload the 218 in a marlin 1894, no issues at all, fun to shoot, and accurate enough. I also have a 25-20 marlin and a tc contender and both are good for anything I want. wanting that 218 bee goes way back to when a local shop went out of business and sold everything for pennys on the dollar. picked up a die set for the 218 for a couple of dollars, took a lot longer to get the rifle, and I am pretty happy with it.
Barry

 

I have a first year production 336 in 219 Zipper as well as a last year production rifle, outstandingly accurate, but the barrel is on the heavy side and the balance is slightly off.
For plain fun, my 1894CL 218 is a joy to shoot and more than accurate for mid-range varmint sniping.

 

I had a custom 218 bee built on a pre-war 1894 Marlin action. Was quite accurate with peep sights but I foolishly sold it. Still had the dies and some brass so of course I needed another bee. My current custom rifle is built on a Mrtini cadet action with a green mountain .224 barrel. It is scoped with an old time Leupold fixed 12X and is very accurate. Won't be selling this one!

 

I have a 219 zipper and it will shoot many bullets into one big hole at 100 yards when I do my part, I reload and it likes the 46 grain Speer 218 Bee bullets

 

I one time mentioned that a 32 20 is too big for rabbits and too small for deer. In its black powder days it was a good small game cartridge. I have better rifles for deer so I don't mess around with it for that use. Winchester advertised it as a good small game cartridge and also OK for deer. Some of its enthusiasts take it out and kill deer with it. One individual filled me in that he loved the cartridge and even had custom rifles built for it. He had a 22 250 but liked hunting with the 32 20. I hunted with muzzle loaders for a while so who am I to say. I had a 222 for a while and still think I prefer it to the 223 in a bolt action. It did all ì asked for out of a hot 22. A lot of the enjoyment is in the rifle as much as the cartridge. Lever actions are kind of fun and the cartridges talked about here are lever cartridges.
What is fun is fun.

DEP

 

I shot a turkey this seaso with my No. 1 in a bee. Trigger was too hard and I fo that when I shot so pulled it slightly. In the base of the neck and out the bottom of one drumstick. It didn’t get any where but I had to dispatch it. 40 gr Sierra bt hp. I thought it would be DRT. Then again, I shot another with a 7-08, perfect neck shot, cut the windpipe severed the spine and I still had to dispatch it. I think it wasn’t the fault of the bee, turkeys are just tough critters

 

Did somebody say 32-20? Fun cartridge! I have a Colt Policer Positive with a 6 inch barrel in 32-20 plus a Marlin 94 CL in 32-20 and a Savage 23 C in 32-20. I also load those to feed my toys.

The Marlin is a joy to shoot and carry!

T.S.

 

Turkeys and most fowl still kick even after they are dead. I think it has something to do with having a pea sized brain.

 

If that’s the requirement, they definitely check the box

 

When I was a kid, we would tie chickens by their feet to the clothesline and cut their throats. They would kick like crazy splashing blood everywhere.
Then we would dip them in scalding water and pluck out the feathers.
We grew what we ate back then.
T.S.

 

My brother, the kindest man I know, will hold a chicken gently in his arms and just cut the neck artery and let it bleed out quietly.
Says they taste better.

The 218 bee doesn't even compare to the 223 rem.
In accuracy or mv.

 

I had to go back to a really, really old reloading manual to even find reloading data for the 219 Zipper. It is my understanding that the Zipper was a developed by Winchester in 1937, but never caught on long-term and Winchester stopped producing commercial ammo for it in 1962. So, having a 219 Zipper would be a handload-only proposition. That puts the Zipper in kind of the same situation as the 25-35 Winchester. This seems to suggest that Winchester's foray into producing cartridges based on the 30 W.C.F. (aka 30-30) case did not pan out all that well. Cartridges primarily designed for lever guns with tubular magazines don't offer a lot of flexibility in bullet selection, and I suspect folks wanting a varmint and small game cartridge wanted more performance than they could achieve with flat or round point bullets that were safe for use in tubular magazine rifles. Just my opinion.

 

JDINFBG, pretty much agree. Rimmed cases like the 30 30 don't feed as well in box magazines. Not just bolts, but other actions. The 222 was very accurate and ended the popularity of the rimmed hornet and bee. The extra range didn't hurt either. 223 became a military cartridge and ended the 222, but is not a lot better. The 220 Swift overpowered the zipper and the 22 250 also out classed them. A 222 bolt using pointed bullets would have been very close to a blunt pointed bullet in a more powerful cartridge.
On the game the 22s are best used for the 223 is really hard to beat even used out of a sporter. The hotter ones need to be used out of a true bolt action heavier barreled varmint rifle to take advantage of their performance. The 6mms also start beating the hot 22s.
The 219 Zipper saw some use in custom built Win 1885 single shots.

DEP

 

I've been a 218 Bee fan for 30 years or better, ever since I had a 22 Hornet rifle so converted. Along the way I think I've tried every bullet and powder combination there is, starting with H-110 and W-680 to 1680 and Lil Gun, these days all my 218 (and 32/20) ammo is loaded with CFE-BLK, velocity is good and accuracy is stellar. I had an 1894-CL in The Bee but foolishly let it get away, that thing would shoot bugholes, despite all the talk about leverguns being inaccurate.

As mentioned there is a cult surrounding the 218 Bee, but we are a cursed lot. Brass has not been produced in five years or better, finding new cases is nearly impossible, and when you do the price is obscene. Forming brass from 32/20 or 25/20 is not easy, in my experience. So before you jump in, make sure you can actually find a way to shoot that doesn't cost $4 a shot, like the ammo you see on GoneBroker.

Still and all, I love my Bees, and just added another, an unfired 1989 Miroku/Browning B-65 that is going to get hot and dirty quick when I get it back from my gunsmith, who is sculpting me a scope base to replace the rear sight, and I already have a nice 3-12 Burris Scout Scope waiting in the wings for installation. Did I mention it's beautiful?



It is.

My other Bee is a custom-made Contender rig from Bullberry Legacy, Troy cut the chamber on this one so tight that it will only lock up on virgin brass or loads that were fired in it, if they were fired in anything else it's a no-go. Still, I'm thinking about sending it back to him to have the chamber re-cut to a more forgiving 218 Mashburn Bee, it will both allow expanded ballistics and longer case life. I ordered a set of Mashburn dies last May, and if the gent I spoke to is right, they'll be available for purchase in May. May of 2026, that is.

In the meantime, I shoot it a little and enjoy it a lot. I'm convinced in the right loadings, the Bee is as inherently accurate as about anything else, and it gives me the warm fuzzies when it does stuff like this. At 100 yards it's nearly as good.

 

I've been a 218 Bee fan for 30 years or better, ever since I had a 22 Hornet rifle so converted. Along the way I think I've tried every bullet and powder combination there is, starting with H-110 and W-680 to 1680 and Lil Gun, these days all my 218 (and 32/20) ammo is loaded with CFE-BLK, velocity is good and accuracy is stellar. I had an 1894-CL in The Bee but foolishly let it get away, that thing would shoot bugholes, despite all the talk about leverguns being inaccurate.

As mentioned there is a cult surrounding the 218 Bee, but we are a cursed lot. Brass has not been produced in five years or better, finding new cases is nearly impossible, and when you do the price is obscene. Forming brass from 32/20 or 25/20 is not easy, in my experience. So before you jump in, make sure you can actually find a way to shoot that doesn't cost $4 a shot, like the ammo you see on GoneBroker.

Still and all, I love my Bees, and just added another, an unfired 1989 Miroku/Browning B-65 that is going to get hot and dirty quick when I get it back from my gunsmith, who is sculpting me a scope base to replace the rear sight, and I already have a nice 3-12 Burris Scout Scope waiting in the wings for installation. Did I mention it's beautiful?



It is.

My other Bee is a custom-made Contender rig from Bullberry Legacy, Troy cut the chamber on this one so tight that it will only lock up on virgin brass or loads that were fired in it, if they were fired in anything else it's a no-go. Still, I'm thinking about sending it back to him to have the chamber re-cut to a more forgiving 218 Mashburn Bee, it will both allow expanded ballistics and longer case life. I ordered a set of Mashburn dies last May, and if the gent I spoke to is right, they'll be available for purchase in May. May of 2026, that is.

In the meantime, I shoot it a little and enjoy it a lot. I'm convinced in the right loadings, the Bee is as inherently accurate as about anything else, and it gives me the warm fuzzies when it does stuff like this. At 100 yards it's nearly as good.

nice shootin, that is my goal when I get my bee back from the gunsmith. Trigger pull reduction.

 

Dowdles Sports has 218 Bee brass. Hornady produces 25-35 cartridges and Grafs&Sons has brass.

Also, I have a Marlin 336 in 7-30 Waters built by Ranger Point Precision that will shoot .5 moa.

T.S.

 

Just because Dowdles says they have something does not mean they do. I tried to purchase some bullets a while back-they said in stock and finally I had to demand a refund. I am not saying they don't have brass, just stating my experience. I did get 218 bee new brass by hornady in the last year from somewhere, not sure where now. I bought 200 rounds just as insurance to go what I had paid through the nose for on Gunbroker. Plenty of bullet stock around or there has been in the last 6-9 mons

 

As for cartridges based on the 30-30 Winchester case, there are quite a few -
Savage 22 Hi-power; 25-35 Winchester, 7-30 Waters, 32 Winchester Special and 375 Winchester to name few. I have rifles in all of these chamberings plus a couple 30-30s of course. They are all good rounds and I load all of them.
T. S.