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1945 1911 Remington Rand pistol value?

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7K views 32 replies 17 participants last post by  Golphin  
#1 ·
Hey 1911 fans. I just picked this thing up but was told it isn't worth anything because it doesn't have Property of US on it! I may have overpaid a little on it but it's a 1945 1911 in pretty good working order so I'm satisfied. I looked up the serial number and it appears to be between some listed for sale from $1300 to $1800 so I'm confused. They do say US Property! I know Remington Rand made more 1911's than any other company but I thought all 1911's from that era were a good bit higher in value. And how would you know if the slide were different or from another gun? I can't see any markings on it anywhere. Thanks for any insight on my latest acquisition. I plan to have a gunsmith check it for me and shoot it some unless it turns out to be worth $1000 or more. By the way the gunshop said it was only worth 3 to 400 dollars! And I asked and he said retail.

Thanks,
Jim
 
#4 ·
That may be what they want to pay for one. I would bet they don't have any for sale because I don't think they will beat anyone out of one for that price. A friend of the family died recently and gave my BIL one that was made the same year with an extra magazine and some old 45 ammo. The ones I looked at for sale like that were 1k and up.
 
#6 ·
Well I know as I said, I asked him retail or wholesale and he said retail. And no they did not have any for sale. I had just bought it at a gun show not 3 miles away and I paid $750 for it. I too didn't think any 1911 was worth less than $450 or $500 unless it was a Rock Island new one or whatever the other cheaper company is. He was trying to sell it at the gun show for to a dealer when i overheard him. The worker for the dealer called the dealer by phone and said he could only offer him $500 sight unseen. So like a dummy I said would you take 700 and he said he'd take 750. Of course all along I'm thinking its a 1000 gun. Like I said it's in pretty good shape for being almost 70 years old. I'll just enjoy it and don't think my son will complain no matter what I paid for it! It's a piece of working history!

Thanks for the comments,

Jim
 
#7 ·
Definitely worth more than $300-$400!the ones I've seen at the gun shows run ~$1500-$2000 but have been marked "US Property". Can't imagine THAT much of a drop. Shoot and enjoy your piece of history with your son....it will outlast both of you!
 
#13 ·
A genuine WW 2 GI 1911, in original finishes, are bringing some large coin at present, even in the "common" ones but with so many parts guns, and copies and reproduction parts, without some close inspection, one should never jump to quick to spend large money, especially a new collector.

It of course should say "U S property" on the frame, unless its been buffed out, which if reblued, its NOT a large money collectors piece, nor if any major part has been switched, its simply a "shooter" and priced as such.
 
#14 ·
Two possibilities come to mind.

ALOT of milsurp guns were kitbashed by target shooters to make bullseye and other sporting guns. This may be one of those parts guns.

The other possibility is that maybe this was an end of war production gun that was then sold to the civilian market after the military cancelled it's wartime contracts. I have no knowledge of this happening, but it certainly seems possible.
 
#15 ·
RGR is right. WW II GI 1911's are bringing good prices these days. I've seen a Remington Rand slide for sale at $350. I think they'll get it. The only gun I've seen for less than $800 had no finish left and looked so bad I wouldn't shoot it without a gunsmith's thorough examination. As others have said, the slide should be marked if it is original. I got mine from my Dad and no, it's not for sale.
 
#19 ·
RGR is right. WW II GI 1911's are bringing good prices these days. I've seen a Remington Rand slide for sale at $350. I think they'll get it. The only gun I've seen for less than $800 had no finish left and looked so bad I wouldn't shoot it without a gunsmith's thorough examination. As others have said, the slide should be marked if it is original. I got mine from my Dad and no, it's not for sale.
Roe, my gun looks exactly like yours, wear and all. And has the same markings on the left side of the slide and a faint ser # on the right side of the frame but no other markings that I can find anywhere. I now have an Iphone so I'll look for a sticky that hopefully tells me how to post a picture and if I can figure it out will let all see.

Thanks, Jim
 
#16 ·
I agree with PJ...pictures would eliminate a lot of questions and conjecture. In lieu of that I offer the following.

If it is indeed an original Remington Rand it should have a two line address on the left side of the slide. By 1944/45 it would have looked like this...
Image


The "FJA" seen just under the slide stop in this picture is the ordinance inspector mark for Col Frank J. Atwood. It is one of three required markings for the pistol to enter service. In addition to the inspector initials there should be a "P" somewhere on the frame along with the crossed cannons of the ordnance department inspectors stamp. On my example the "P" is just behind and below the magazine release button and the ordinance stamp is on the right side of the frame just in front of the hammer pin.

This Remington Rand was carried by my father and returned with him from service in the ETO during WWII...

Image


Image


Image


The right side of the frame is marked "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" and "M 1911A1 U.S. ARMY". There are additional letter markings on the trigger guard, a "u" and an "n" on the right side, and a "4" on the left. These, as I understand, may have been applied by other inspectors or may have come from arsenals or field units.

Roe
 
#17 ·
Some 45 collector, is now squirting their pants over that one. they dont come much nicer.

Dad always talked about wishing he had tried to bring home both a carbine, and a 45. I bought him a carbine about 30 years back, and a 45, I believe it was a Remington, but all original, similar condition to the one shown. I recall distinctly paying 175 dollars for it, at a show in Mesa AZ around 1981. The "original" GI thing was just barely starting at that time.

Most gun shops are full aware of the difference between a 45, any where close to genuine GI and an aftermarket or "parts" gun. Little way they are selling even a doggy beat up GI for the price quoted over the phone.

Cripes, price a dang genuine 1911 some time over a 1911 A1, their difference will near scare a collector to death.

EVERYTHING genuine military is bringing big prices. Well maybe not 6.5 carcanos......:biggrin:
 
#18 ·
#21 ·
I spose it could be a GI slide, on an aftermarket frame, Since the U S marking is often right above the serial number the number can get whacked pretty bad with guys nervous about the "U S property" markings, but then it would have had too ben re parkerized too, which would be a bit unusual for a shade tree job.
 
#22 ·
Roe,
Once again you have proven to be a veritable store house of information. I have a 1945 1911A1 Remington Rand I purchased privately for $450.00. I bought it as a shooter because during it's life it was reblued and had pachmeyer grips installed. The FJA inspector stamp is right side up just below the slide release. I purchased it from a deceased man's estate and the Stepson did not know the history of this particular 1911A1 I do know it shoots considerably better than the 1911A1 I carried and shot while in the service from 1969 to 1973. With it's preferred loads it will group into 1.5 inches at 50 feet. I have shot 2.5 inch groups at 50 yards off of sand bags but do not know if it was "accuracy modified" in any way. I just know it shoots rings around my service carried 1911A1. Even though it has substantial weight and is big, it is my preferred concealed carry handgun. While in my possession it has never failed to feed or fire, not once, no matter what I feed it. These are truly awesome weapons whether serving in combat or self defense.

Bob
 
#23 ·
The "FJA" on my (I should say my father's) Remington Rand is right side up as well, Bob. I didn't have a closeup of the slide markings for that response and used a file photo for expediency. The other photos are of course mine.

Most of the finish wear on that gun I put there nearly 30 years ago. I shot that gun in IPSC/USPSA competition one entire season while waiting for a custom single-stack to be built. I had sold the Colt Combat Elite I started with, to a buddy who wanted to get into the sport, then the inevitable pistolsmith delays left me without a gun for the upcoming season. The Rem Rand was pressed into service.

Even then I knew better than to alter the gun, so I shot it just as it was carried by my father in WWII, with nothing more than a strip of skateboard tape on the front strap and the addition of a half dozen Wilson 8-round magazines. This was in the days before there were seperate classes in USPSA and everyone competed heads up, whether you shot a stock single stack or a compensated, red-dotted, high-cap custom.

That old war horse never let me down, even though I shot lead H&G SWCs. I learned an awful lot shooting that gun that summer, moved up a full classification, and took great enjoyment when I was able to beat those with fancy $2000+ race guns. I got in the habit of, after a good run on a course of fire, and after "unload...show clear...hammer down", I would give the gun a little shake before reholstering, so all present could hear it rattle. It drove the "gamers" nuts.

I've never shot the gun off bags and to this day have no idea what it would do at 50 yards, but I do clearly remember a match in Kalamazoo that summer. One of the courses of fire was a classifier, the dreaded timed-fire 50 yard "standards"...6 rounds standing, 6 rounds kneeling, 6-reload-6 from prone...on three separate targets. I wasn't all too confident as I made ready...I never figured I could make good shots with those miniscule military sights in the time allotted... but a bit of cloud cover to minimize the glare, and what must have been a laser-sharp focus on that little nub of a front sight...conspired, and I beat the clock on all three strings. Following the RO down to the targets, I was only a bit surprised to find all the shots were solid "A" hits, resulting in a score that put me near the top for the course...and the match.

Nothing compared to it's service in WWII, I understand...but just another minor victory in what became a string of them that summer. I retired the old veteran at the end of the season, when my EGW-built custom finally arrived and continued competing until my daughters were born some years later. Do I regret the finish wear I put on that gun during that year? A bit at first...no doubt I lowered it's collector value a fair amount...but it matters not at all. My father's gun will never be sold. My daughters know it's history and it's importance, and have vowed to pass it on to my future grandchildren if I'm unable to do that myself. Besides, reminiscing over that bit of holster wear still brings a smile...and honestly, although I did quite well with the EGW and worked my way up to A class, I don't think I ever had as much fun competing as I did that summer with that old Remington Rand.

Roe
 
#24 ·
Wow, great story Roe, thanks. Even though I may have overpaid a bit for this gun. It really seems to be in surprisingly good shape for it's age whatever that is. And after looking at another site and a very similar gun I examined mine a little more and have found a faint P on the top of the slide and a P on the side of the barrel lug. Also the barrel says Colt 45 cal. I'm taking it to a gunsmith hopefully tomorrow to make sure I can shoot it safely and see what he thinks about it. Can't wait to shoot it. I'll report back after I do to see how accurate it is.

Jim
 
#25 ·
The more you reveal, the more I'm led to believe it a parts gun...but, the fact it has a Colt barrel doesn't, in itself, mean it's not original. Remington Rand used barrels from a number of different sources, Colt among them. In addition to Colt, barrels from Springfield, Flannery, and most commonly, High Standard were used during wartime production.

Colt barrels were used in early production, 1942 and early '43. If that is an original Colt war-time manufactured barrel, it should be marked "COLT 45 AUTO" on the left side of the chamber and should have a "G" on the underside, in front of the locking lugs.

Roe
 
#26 ·
I was told by a gunsmith one time, that the last M1911A1 made for the U.S. military was made in 1946. They just had so many of them. And if you think about it, we have never had a military force that big again. I know all of them that I carried from 72-92 were made in the 40's sometime and had been reworked by Rock Island or some one else a couple of times. I know it was a sad day in 92 when my unit turned in our last 45, that ment that the only peice of equipment left that was not updated or replaced was the M35A2 2 1/2 ton. I guess it was time to retire.
 
#27 ·
As you hint, the whole deal about "originality" is often in the eye of the beholder. So many went back to the armories, mix and matching parts, they are like finding an M1 carbine with all same makers stamps. When found, its often because some collector found all the right parts to build an "original" gun, NOT because the armory guy took the time to make sure stamps matched.

The guns actually brought back by the soldier, and provenance to boot, are far and few between. Thus any GI gun "all original" should be looked at with an open mind and skepticism.

Its the old saw, "buy the gun, and dont pay extra for the story".