[BFPGW]

If you feel you need a brush and your 45 cal brush feels loose in a 45 cal bore, buy a new/different brush. I don't need brushes much but on occasion it has become necessary. The thing to remember about brushes is the bristle tips do the work, not the rest of the bristle. Like sweeping with a broom at a 45 degree angle to the floor. It will drag over some of what you are trying to clean up. Keep the bristle tips as close to perpendicular to the surface you are trying to clean.

That said, I like a good solvent, a quality caliber-specific brass jag, and cotton patches. Brushes are for when problems arise.

Jeff

 

[405GN]

I've learned a few things through trial and observation as a swat sniper. We are after extreme levels of precision, from a cold bore. At precision rifleman class, 1/8th of an inch was the difference between pass and fail, and the target size was 3/4", at 100 yards.

After shooting a lot of clean cold bores, cold bores, and warm bores, and seeing how different cleaning methods affected the rifles, talking to other snipers, both police and military, and reviewing barrel logs, it starts to become clear that most barrel wear comes from cleaning, not shooting.

I treat all my personal guns and issued guns the same, and I hunt with my issued Remington 700p 308 win.

Dip the leading end of a boresnake in solvent, and run it through the bore about every 10 rounds, or before the rifle gets put away. Since I've been doing this I've never had any issues with a wandering zero, which granted for hunting if your zero shifts a ½" you wouldn't know it.

Even when I shoot BP cartridges in my 1895G, the only modification I make is to stick the muzzle in hot soapy water and run a mop up and down the bore till the water comes out clear, then do the above.

I picked this up from an marine sniper at a class. Until then I would have never used a bore snake in a precision rifle. His 1200 meter groups convinced me it works.

Other than sidelock muzzleloaders, every bore gets cleaned this way.

A spotless bore is actually rather inaccurate.

This is an interesting post. I can see you're point with the larger diameter calibers but what about the smaller ones like .223 and the 25's. I had a Remington Sendero in 25-06 and after about 20 shots the groups would start opening up. It was amazing what I could get out of that barrel after a day at the range. I would even clean it right there at the range after about 20 shots. It would take me quite a while to get all the green out once i got home. It shot extremely well (far better then me) when the barrel was spotless but not when it was dirty.

The 45-70 is a completely different animal since it has such a large bore and fires such a slow projectile. I had a Mini-14 on the other hand that shot better filthy than it ever did clean. I finally just gave up on cleaning it and just oiled it with a cleaning once in a while at which time I used bore snakes for obvious reasons. Could the various manufacturing techniques when making a barrel such as button rifling/cut rifling or some other manufacturing process have any bearing on this? Higher quality barrels are hand lapped which means they are smoother inside and don't pick up as much fouling a standard factory barrel does. I've read that Savage is notorious for "rough" barrels but they are known for shooting very good groups. At least they were in the past. What about the bore diameter and the speed of the bullet? Does a larger bore and a slower projectile handle more fouling and still shoot well?

I have used bore snakes but it seems to me that they just don't clean as well as a rod/patches/brushes with the various cleaning solvents that are available such as Sweets and Butches Bore Shine. I used a bore snake with my guide gun for a few months and when I went to clean it with a rod, patches, brushes etc. I got better groups with it once it was cleaned out. I will add though, that it could have just been me that day. With the Sendero way back when it wasn't though. I was doing a LOT of shooting back then. It definitely shot better with a squeaky clean bore. The same with an Armalite AR15T I owned years ago and the Ruger 10-22T I owned.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not disagreeing with you and take advice from those in you're line of work very seriously I just have to wonder if the bore snake works with every barrel depending on how the rifling was cut and how the barrel was manufactured. I never would have even considered using a bore snake on a precision rifle before just as you said in your post.

 

[405GN]

Bore snakes - Well fine and good and I have a number of them. HOWEVER, the single biggest problem I can see with them is cleanliness.!!!! Keep them packaged and clean or that cord is a great way to repeatedly drag grit through your bore and not even know it is happening.

That is the single biggest reason I have always wondered about using bore snakes and the reason I have not ever used them in a rifle that was built to be very accurate. However, I have used them quite a bit on pistols, in the guide gun and others where cleaning from the breech is impossible like on a Mini-14. I've never used one in my 100th anniversary 1895 and never will. I do keep them packaged all the time though and run them through the washer when they get dirty. But you never know what might get imbedded in one in a washer so handwashing in a sink might be a better idea which I have done more than the washer method. I've always been more comforatable with clean, virgin patches and a bronze brush.

 

[405GN]

Hey Folks,

Just wondering what you all use for a bronze wire brush attachment for a cleaning rod in your 45-70s? I've noticed the past couple of times while cleaning my guide gun my .45 caliber bronze brush attachment is a little loose fitting in the bore, the diameter is just a hair too small. It brushes the sides but not very snugly. I'd like to find something with a bigger diameter that scrubs the bore a little tighter.

So, what do you guys use for a brush in your 45-70s? Any suggestions? Thanks!

Are you using a .458 brush or a .452? The .458's I've used are nice and tight when they are new. Eventually they start wearing out and get a little loose at which time unless you need to do some serious scrubbing a patch wrapped around them takes up the slack.

 

[trekker111]

The 3 savages I have had experience with all had decent looking bores, a heavy barreled 112 in 22-250, a 110 in 300 win mag with sporting contour barrel, and a model 10FPS in 308 win. All three were good Shooters, but the heavy barreled ones were better.

The 10fps is every bit as accurate as the rem 700p I am issued, but it's only been about the last 3 years or so since I was cleaning bores as I posted.

I used to clean the bore by taking by one piece bench rest 30 cal rod, and a brush, copper solvent, and caliber specific lathe turned brass jag and clean until I could get no more copper out of the bore. Trying to establish a clean cold bore zero was a trial, and the best I could get was a 1" group, but the group was as much as 2 inch high and 1½" left of my cold bore point of impact, depending on temperature, humidity, and what-not. Since I've been cleaning like I posted, I guess it may not technically be a clean bore, but my 700p will hold ½" groups, and shoot to zero with only ½" of variance between my cold bore zero, and warm bore point of impact. This is with 168gr Hornady A-max TAP. The lawyers won't allow reloads. I also notice very little variance from temp or humidity.

I'm not sure about the velocity question, as the calibers I do this with are various 22lr, 223 rem, 7.62x39, 308win, 30-30, 45 acp, 45 colt, 45-70, 40s&w, 375 H&H, 410 and 12ga. None of which I would consider high velocity. And the accuracy level discussed is higher than what the average hunter needs.

Lawyers aren't after your retirement if you miss a deer's medula oblongata and it gets a shot off before it dies. In all actuality, 99.9% of snipers will never need to make that shot, but we have to train to it. And it is fun head shooting deer at 500 yards.

The point I believe the sniper that relayed that cleaning method to me was making is all barrels have a service life, and most shooters put more wear on their barrels cleaning them than they ever do shooting, with no real gain.

Also if you are set on a bore brush for your 45-70, make sure it is a .458 brush. If it says "45", or was bought at a dept store, it is probably a .452 brush. If it is in one of those "Universal" cleaning kits it is definantly a .452 brush.

 

[Crusty Deary Ol Coot]

The several comments above about brush size likely depends on brand. --- As I stated earlier, the .44/.45 caliber KleenBore brushes I have are a snug fit through my RUGER #1 bore in which I shoot .460 sized cast bullets. ------- However, with the cast bullets in my 45/70, I take the same approach as I do with my high quality Walther and Freddersen .22 rimfire barrels, that being any cleaning is held to a minimum and in the case of the 45/70 I will foul the barrel if at all possible before going afield to hunt. ------- On hunting rifles, once the bore is fouled, the muzzle is sealed with plastic electrical tape and remains so until season's end, unless the firearm is fired or I'm out in very wet conditions where for the sake of preserving a good barrel I must clean/dry the bore. -------- JeffDilla, the original poster replied to me some posts back that he had yet to put cast bullets down the barrel of his rifle. So, considering that, the question is, Why the Need for a brass or bronze brush at all??????? ----- It is likely this situation would be better served with tight patches and a quality bore/copper solvent and there is very little need to be continually dragging or shoving a brass/bronze brush through a bore be it on the end of a rod or in a bore snake. ------ If in fact the brush built into a bore snake is breaking anything loose, do I want to be repeatedly dragging those particles through a good bore? ------ My answer to that is a resounding NO! -------- YES, I have some bore snakes, but they are mostly reserved for in field , "emergency" use. ----- Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

 

[trekker111]

You also need to clean your boresnakes. I hand wash mine in hot water and dish soap.

 

[Chris623]

You also need to clean your boresnakes. I hand wash mine in hot water and dish soap.

+1 !!!!!

 

[JeffDilla]

Coot,

Just to clarify, I don't use a bronze brush every time I clean the gun. However, after several trips to the range, I'll usually run a solvent-soaked patch down the bore, followed by a pass with a bronze brush to loosen up any gunk buildup in there. This is when I noticed how small the diameter of my .45 cal brush is, which came in one of those "all-in-one" kits. I'm guessing it's better suited for hand guns, which it fits fine in my .45 pistols.

 

[Crusty Deary Ol Coot]

Thanks Jeff. ----- You might see if you can come up with one of these Kleenbore .44/.45 brushes. ---- Forget where I obtained mine, but the cost for 5 was minimal. ---- Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

 

[Crusty Deary Ol Coot]

Jeff, If ya can't find any of the Kleenbore brushes handy like, let me know and I can send you one of mine. Likely never use them all up. CDOC

 

[JeffDilla]

Thanks, Coot! I'm actually headed to Cabelas on Saturday. I'll poke around and see what I can find.