The Germans did this in WW2, apparently the reversed fmj's penetrated light steel better than a pointed fmj.
I have heard it called "riveting".

 

I saw something on TV about this recently...
The custom started during WWI during trench war. Spotters would peak over the top through slits in armored plates, the hammer of the reversed bullet would cause more spalling on the back side of these shields which would fly into the faces of the enemy...
Which makes more sense to me...

 

I recall reading where the brits reversed the bullets in their 303 to better penetrate armor. something like that.

don't let the split necks bother you, they are not a problem.

 

So do I reduce the powder charge to be careful?

 

That is what I read as well.

 

I had a guy tell me once that his 'reversed' bullets tumbled. Doesnt mean they all will, but I dont think it will be a problem, just shoot them and see. If they tumble, readjust...

 

I searched the Forum and could not see this ever addressed.

The rifle is a Mosin Nagant that I sporterized.
The Bullets are 147gr steel core FMJ BT Ukrainian surplus "Pulls"
I am reloading them into brass and read somewhere that with a lower powder charge the bullet could be seated UPSIDE DOWN in the brass
as long as the OAL is OK. The lower charge is to reduce the incidence of split necks.

The purpose is to be able to effectively hunt with them ( wood chucks and nuicence deer this summer)
The .312" flat base will hit like a wadcutter. I wonder if the bullet will stay stable?

:hmmmm:

 

Quite a few years ago an old timer from Virginia told me that after WWII when reloading components were scarce he and his friends loaded pulled military FMJ's backwards for hunting.

 

There should be no reason to reduce the charge. The bullet weighs the same going either direction and the bearing surface of the bullet is the same in either direction. Perhaps the recommendation to reduce the charge was because more of the bullet is now inside the case and there is less room for the powder. i.e., the standard charge will no longer fit inside the case along with the reversed bullet.

I would expect accuracy to suffer. Wadcutters are intended as a short range bullet. For what you're proposing, the bullet's center of gravity will be further back and the bullet will likely become upset in flight.

 

Pressure sensitivity can change dramatically the deeper the base of the bullet is seated into the case. In this case, the point of the bullet is now the base which extends much deeper into the case. Also, the freebore is effectively increased. Seating depth and freebore changes can both increase or decrease pressure just depending how much in each direction you go. As always, start low and work your way up.

 

I think it was either a youtube video or another forum website I saw had to do with the warnings of the taper of the tip of the bullet inside the neck of the case causing much more pressure at the neck and splitting them. The base of the bullet and a wadcutter both have flat bases for the pressure to push against.

(For nuisance deer: I want to take my sporterized mosin nagant to a farm that a farmer has deer permits. FMJ for hunting are a NO-NO in Libtardia, NY.)

 

unless i had a good reason i would not chance damage to me or my gun.

 

I found one article with some water jug results, impressive

The Box O' Truth #32 - Dum-Dum Bullets and the Box O'Truth The Box O' Truth

 

Another post from "SurplusRifle"Forum

"In 1973 my ship pulled into Mombasa, Kenya for two weeks. Myself and eight other sailors took a photographic safari into the bush. Outside of a little village we were stopped by a Park Ranger who told us there was a rouge elephant in the village. We were to stay put as he went to dispatch the two ton vandal. I noticed he was carrying a NoI MkIII .303 rifle. After about 20 minutes we heard a shot fired and a crowd cheer arise from the hamlet. The ranger walked back to our VW Micro-bus and said it was now safe to proceed. I asked him how he had disposed of the beast using a mere .303 rifle. He explained to us that he had pulled the bullet and reversed it into the mouth of the case and shot the elephant right between the eyes from 100 feet. He said the animal fell like a stone to the ground. Had I had not seen the results of this trick, I would not have believed it to be possible. Now many years later, I have read of many accounts of the reversed bullet being used to spall armor plate,drop large game,blow door knobs out of a door,etc. The flat bullet base ( even the boat tail ) exerts an enormous energy transfer to the object struck. Many of the sub-caliber penetrators in modern projectiles used by our armed forces are blunt tipped."

Anyone here try it?

 

Another post from "SurplusRifle"Forum

"In 1973 my ship pulled into Mombasa, Kenya for two weeks. Myself and eight other sailors took a photographic safari into the bush. Outside of a little village we were stopped by a Park Ranger who told us there was a rouge elephant in the village. We were to stay put as he went to dispatch the two ton vandal. I noticed he was carrying a NoI MkIII .303 rifle. After about 20 minutes we heard a shot fired and a crowd cheer arise from the hamlet. The ranger walked back to our VW Micro-bus and said it was now safe to proceed. I asked him how he had disposed of the beast using a mere .303 rifle. He explained to us that he had pulled the bullet and reversed it into the mouth of the case and shot the elephant right between the eyes from 100 feet. He said the animal fell like a stone to the ground. Had I had not seen the results of this trick, I would not have believed it to be possible. Now many years later, I have read of many accounts of the reversed bullet being used to spall armor plate,drop large game,blow door knobs out of a door,etc. The flat bullet base ( even the boat tail ) exerts an enormous energy transfer to the object struck. Many of the sub-caliber penetrators in modern projectiles used by our armed forces are blunt tipped."

Anyone here try it?

A "rouge" elephant, I wonder what kind of bathtub swill he was drinking........
At least he was using enough gun with the good ole 303.
:biggrin:

 

Factory loaded soft point hunting ammo is readily available in 7.62 X 54R. Are soft point bullets not available for reloading?

 

Yes they are but I have a whole spam can of Ukrainian surplus 147 FMJ that I pulled the bullets from.

 

The Only Benifit from loading Spire Point FMJ bullits Backwards would be 4 Sub-Sonic Loads.
At the Lower Velocities the "Teardrop" Shape of the reversed bullet Seems 2 Aid Aerodynamics & provide Better Accuracy.
165gr spbt Loaded this way w/ 4.3gr Trail Boss in my .308 Are Very Accurate @ 50yds & Nearly Silent.
Sounds like a Cap Gun & Direction of Shooter is Virtually Undetectable.
UncleSarge58

 

Found the video on YOUTUBE, some concern......

Backwards Bullets: "Do Not Try This" - The Truth About Guns

So if I back off on the powder charge and work my way up I should be able to save the case necks....

 

Interesting test in the video. I will stick with my soft point hunting bullets for hunting and leave my FMJ bullets loaded the proper way for punching paper targets.

Do you have a hunting caliber rifle to use for deer hunting?

 

 

The FMJ, unless it hits precisely vitals or the neck is only a pass through and maims the animal like a deer. Not much shock value and flipping them over and hitting with the base first is pretty devistating as many know with a soup can bullet. That is the purpose and to use them hunting since I have many and to make them a "once and done" shot. I'll work up some loads here soon and report back with pics in the next day or two.

I was hoping for posters who might have tried this kind of thing.....

 

Reversed or not, I'm thinking steel core rounds are still illegal to use on game.
GH1

 

In working up an OAL for inverted 147gr FMJ I tried a freshly deprimed case and an inverted bullet loosely fitted in the neck.
Chambered (without resistance I noticed) extracted and measured it.--- 2.63" .......Sure sticks out of the neck alot.!
Compared to a factory round, it looks like the ogive lines up next to the inverted boat tail taper at about an OAL of 2.54"

Anyone familiar with the chambers on these old Russian Mosin Nagants? What is the distance from the rim on the case to the lands?

 

Finally a break in this nasty NE weather and a quiet balmy 40F and no wind at the range. I tried 4 different loads using the original factory surplus Ukrainian powder that was in the 147gr FMJ ammo. The factory ammo averaged 48gr of powder. Because of volume displacement in the case and the redirected pressure on the shoulder of the case I made the loads with INVERTED bullets 41g, 41.5gr, 42gr, and 42.5gr. One in particular stood out, grouping well and boy did the plywood fly from the flat base of the bullets.

I am happy to report that there was NO SIGNS OF STRESS OR PRESSURE on case inspections.
Now to load up a bunch at 41.5gr and watch for regular consistancy and how they do out to 100 yds.

 

The only thing I've read about this practice was primarily its use in WWI during the trench warfare days. It didn't have anything to do with penetration, accuracy, etc., but to cause "spalling" of metal into the enemy. One example I saw were that men would hide behind metal plates with slits/holes or whatnot in them peeking above the trench to observe the enemy movements without getting their heads blown off by a sniper. To counteract that, they would shoot those reversed loads to basically slap on that iron/steel plate and have bits of steel fly off (spall) and into their faces, eyes, or whatever... nasty stuff; like shrapnel.
Other than that, I have a hard time imagining any reason or real advantage to doing that myself...?

 

Why not just cut the tips off.?

 

Good idea...BUT
They are FMJ STEEL CORE.....it took about 3 minutes with a hacksaw to cut a tip off.....and then it was not flat.
The inverted seem to be the way to go.

 

It is "practise" when loading subsonic. Simply put you move the center of gravity forwards to compensate for reduced spin.

Think of it as a semi wadcutter with a loooong boattail!

 

I loaded up some more with 41.5gr and I'll see if they are consistent. Tomorrow I'll head to the range and post the results.

 

Interested in how this turns out.If you look at DG bullets for big bores they are now pretty much flat points like the base of your fmj's.