Marlin Firearms Forum banner

Ruger M-77 or Win 70 Owners....???????

1 reading
5.6K views 38 replies 29 participants last post by  locoman  
#1 ·
Thinking of getting a new or used boltgun in either 7/08 or 308 and was wondering how these model/brand rifles are made and shoot?
I've always owned boltguns by Browning & Remington and wanted to get some input from those of you who own/owned these models....

Thanks a lot.
BloodGroove4570
 
#2 ·
I've had seven or eight different M-77's over the years. Still have five or six. The two that I don't have any longer were problem children that I just could not get to group, no matter what I tried. FWIW, the last Ruger M-77 that I picked up was fantastic, right out of the box...



It is chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor, and here is a link to my summary of that latest rifle.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/g...-off-topic-stuff/86876-m-77-hawkeye-all-weather-6-5-creedmoor-range-report.html

The only other bolt gun that I've ever purchased that shot this well out of box was the CZ-550, chambered in .30-06. Don't overlook the CZ line - - they make great rifles, with features very similar to what you may be looking for.

FWIW, I used to be a die-hard Ruger fan, but they went through a period of questionable quality issues - - about like the rest of the firearms manufacturers have. Since then, I've taken a pretty good fancy to the CZ line-up. They also have what I was looking for... Massive Mauser extractor, fixed ejector, controlled round feed, adjustable trigger, fixed magazine with a hinged floor plate, and generally speaking are well made.

Hope this helps some.
 
#3 · (Edited)
I own both and I like both. Problem is both my model 70s are pre64 Winchesters and tend to sit in the gun cabinet cause don't want to ding up a gun I can't replace. I don't own any new Winchesters. Most of my Ruger 77's are the new Hawkeyes. I definitely would recommend them to you. I love them. I own Blued/Walnut and Stainless/Synthetic versions. Great guns.

Here is my .300 Win Mag

Image
 
#4 ·
I can't speak about winchester model 70's but I have a tang safety ruger m77 and I really do like it. I had a little problem getting the accuracy where I wanted it but now I think I've found what my particular rifle likes. I emailed ruger about the torque of the screws that hold the stock to the action and followed their specs plus switched to remington core lokt ammo. Now it shoots where I am happy to hunt with it. But I do plan on fine tuning a load for it once I get my reloading operation going.
Another nice thing about my m77 is that it has the factory adjustable trigger. Some people say that they don't get light enough for their liking but I adjusted it and am very pleased with it.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Why no Savage ? I would avoid Remington like the plague because of quality control,like they did to Marlin.I was just reading a thread on new Rems on another site and it seems they are messing up with their bolt rifles lately.With out even mentioning the trigger recall.

I have a Winchester M70 Featherweight in 270Win from the mid 1980's and I recently took it to the range because a buddy just bought a new Rem 770 308 and I smoked him,and that wasn't Winchesters better years for M70's.

 
#10 ·
Have had three of the new Model 70s and kept two (a friend talked me out of one). They're US made and amazingly consistent in terms of QC, fit and finish and, especially, accuracy. Wonderful triggers, right out of the box. Not cheap, but worth every penny.

Never owned a Ruger 77, other than a 77/22 Hornet.


Winchester M70's are made by FN and are highly regarded.
 
#11 ·
I have several bolt rifles in various calibers. M77SS 30-06, Win 70 FW 270win, Weatherby VG Sporter .308win, Weatherby VG 270win. Out of the bunch the Weatherby's are the most accurate. The Ruber M77SS 30-06 is built like a tank and extremely reliable. Did a trigger job on M77 and it went from 6# to 3#. After the trigger job the M77 shoots much better. The Win 70 feather weight in 270 shoots ok but the light weight barrel holds it back. Tends to drift a bit as the barrel heats up. The Weatherby rifles are sub MOA. M77 is about 1.0-1.5" @ 100 yds and Win 70 FW is about 1.5-2.0" @ 100 yd. All are scoped with Leupold or Redfield optics except the M77 has Bushnell Elite 3100... all 3-9x40.
If I was going to hunt in some rough country and needed a rock solid rifle I'd probably take the Ruger 30-06 M77ss. The M77 has iron sights on it so if the scope gets busted I still have a functional rifle.
If you are after a tack driver take a hard look at the Weatherby Vanguard's. They are shooters.
 
#12 ·
I have several ruger bolt guns 358,270,6.5x55,308 most all required free floating and relieving the magazine box to get good accuracy. Except the 270 skeleton it will drill with 170gr bullets like no tomorrow other than a lighter trigger it's untouched. On to the new model American made winchester 70 featherweight (never tire of this one) in 257 Roberts. I just can't say enough good. There's nothing left to do on these things. Free floated glass bedded and adjustable trigger Out of the box and it shoots just about anything I feed it into a inch. When I found a nosler ballistic tip load that would shoot a half inch I stopped and called it good. I want one in 7x57 to keep it company really badly.
 
#13 · (Edited)
MM has owned a couple of Ruger 77 rifles in the past.

They were and are tack drivers and I have seen two of his 'all weather ones' in action. His 22magnum one was sold some time ago. He has one Ruger 77 'all weather' rifle in 22lr left.

He had no issues with them! They are tack drivers.

He had/has NO issues with his Savage - bolt action, his two Remington rifles - bolt action, his Made in CT Marlins - lever action, the Henry lever action rifles, etc. (I never had problems with my former firearms either. They were tack drivers too. Rifles and handguns.)

Added more: MM does not own a .308 and I do not know IF he ever owned one before I knew him. Most likely - he did because he used to own and shoot a LOT of firearm calibers. Ha! He does own a Remington bolt action rifle in 30-06 and .223. The Savage bolt action is in 22lr. When he was downsizing and consolidating a whole bunch of calibers even as far as the beginning of THIS WEEK (He sold another gun on Monday.) - he decided to keep his Ruger 77 in 22lr some time ago even if he sold the other Ruger tack driver in 22magnum several years ago.

We had no issues with our former Winchesters or with two former Browning rifles either.

Cate
 
#14 ·
I have both the Winchester 70's and Ruger 77's,
I always had to have the Rugers free floated and bedded and then they would hold good groups.

free floating and bedding are both inexpensive and I would buy another Ruger without hesitation, but I am more partial to the Winchester 70's

both are good choices
 
#16 ·
I've had 5 Ruger 77s and really liked them. They were accurate enough but not one hole shooters and had to tweek two of them to get better accuracy. Now I have two of the FN made Winchester 70s and both are outstanding quality , fit and finish. Both were out of the box more accurate and consistent than any Ruger I ever had.
 
#21 ·
I had a '76 Winchester Model 70 in .300 Win Mag. and hand loaded for it. It was very accurate, and a fine ground hog rifle out to 400 yards. The only warning that I would give you is to try to stay away from trap door magazines as they tend to open without permission and spill your ammo out on the ground. I think they have made the change to a box magazine, but just wanted to let you know.
 
#22 ·
Can't speak to newer ones, but have both in older versions. On a used Model 70 it may depend some on what year/model it was made if looking at one? Over-all I'm not impressed with mine to be honest, and prefer the Ruger M-77 I have if having to pick one. That said, I do tend to stick with my Brownings... and also a 7mm-08 fan, ha!
Good luck to you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BloodGroove4570
#23 · (Edited)
I've owned both. The Model 70's I've had were made in the '30s, '50's, late '80s, and in to the late 1990's. I do not currently own a Model 70 and don't really miss any of the ones that I've had.

I've owned four "tang safety" Ruger M77's and one M77MkII. The only bolt action I own currently is the M77RL Ultralight in .250 Savage that I bought new back in 1985. I have absolutely no plans of ever parting with it.

I prefer the push-feed tang-safety M77 over the M77MkII and I'm not as keen on the M77 Hawkeye as I am on the older push-feed, tang-safety models. I prefer the ergonomics of the tang safety being right under my thumb when I mount the gun, as it is on my shotguns and my Ruger No.1. I also vastly prefer the floorplate latch of the the older guns verses the arrangement used on the MkII and Hawkeye that I find so cumbersome to use with gloved hands. All three versions have very light cocking effort. I like the big, easy to feel and see cocking indicators they use. I like the Mauser-inspired bolt stop release. I really like Ruger's proprietary scope mounting system, finding it user-friendly when mounting glass to a rifle and unfailingly reliable in terms of holding zero with all fasteners remaining fastened.

My M77RL in .250 Savage was, until 2009, the most accurate sporter type bolt action rifle I had ever shot and it still groups betwen .660" and .770" with boring regularity. The action on this was slick from new but really has that "glass smooth" feel of classic bolt actions of yore now.

Rugers use investment cast receivers. That's a deal breaker to some people, but in explaining why, it's often obvious that they don't understand the investment casting process or how Ruger goes about doing it. It isn't a deal-breaker to me.

I'm not keen on the cheap "pot metal" trigger guards used on the Rugers, or their light alloy floorplates. I wasn't keen on them back when Ruger had replacements available and I'm even less so in the here and now where they don't. Another nit I have to pick with the M77 is that the stamped steel magazine liner needs fit in the assembled stock and barreled action with a degree of "free float" to it. It it doesn't, it causes accuracy to suffer. Seriously. As ridiculous as it sounds, if the magazine liner isn't right, you can't get the barreled action to sit in the stock properly when the three action screws are torqued to their correct values. Those three action screws with that front one being angled like it is makes getting the barreled action correctly re-mated to the stock a kind of PITA that it isn't with more straightforward assemblies on other rifles. In my experience, the Rugers are HIGHLY SENSITIVE to these screws all being properly torqued if the rifle is going to shoot as good as it can. They can't be to too tight or too loose but all three need to be just right. That, again, is why the magazine liner needs to fit properly. Even if it did when new, it might not now on a wood stocked rifle, as the metal is less inclined to change dimension over time that the wooden stock is. Another thing about the tang safety Rugers is that barrel quality among them is pretty variable but somewhat caliber-dependent as to whether a "tanger" is going to shoot well or somewhat less than satisfactorily. As an example, I'm not the only guy who has a "tanger" M77 in .250 Savage that thinks it is more accurate than it has any right to be, and from the outset, I assumed it shot as well as it did and does because the interior barrel finish is so good. It doesn't take many patches to get it clean and copper buildup has never, ever been a problem. I don't think I've had to use Sweet's 7.62 or a similarly aggressive copper remover on it yet. The .25-'06's also seem to have decent barrels on them, in the main. As much as I dig "tanger" Rugers, I would avoid those in 7 X 57 and .257 Roberts like the plaugue because I seen more than one of them in action but never saw one yet that turned in an M.O.A. performance. I haven't seen many in .308 but those that I have seen all seemed to do 1" to 1.5" with no problem. Ruger outsourced barrels for the "tangers" but started hammer forging their own with the MkII series so they don't have the potential barrel quality issues of the older guns. Those older ones made from '73 and earlier have barrels made by Douglas and they're pretty good.

The only MkII I had was in .270 and while not as accurate as my older "tanger" in .250 Savage, it was a solid sub-M.O.A. grouper right out of the gate with 130 or 150 grain Barnes X bullets over full doses of IMR 4350. It was an excellent rifle. The only Winchester Model 70 hunting rifles I owned that shot as well were push-feed models form the mid 1980's.

I'm not real keen on the Hawkeye. They might LOOK like M77's but they don't feel as smooth to me out of the box as the older ones did. I'd rather have an older one and I'd rather have the push-feed, tang-safety model, obviously, because that's exactly what I DO have.

Rugers get panned for inaccuracy. I've had five of them. None were duds, one was more than okay, and one still dazzles me every time I shoot it. Among my 80s and 90s circle of association, the M77 in .25-'06 was revered by a dozen different people I knew personally. They all had one, and they all were sub-M.O.A. rifles. Most of the .30-'06 and .270 versions I've been around were "hunting grade accurate" and could get down to the 1 to 1.5 inch range with some load development. On the other hand, I've seen some dismal groups from M77's in 7 X 57, .257 Roberts, and .243 -like 2 to 2.5 inches.

But I had a Remington Model 700 Mountain Rifle that was a stinker, too. I don't think Ruger has a patent on churning them out. I do think a Remington is easier to sort out if you get one that sucks than a Ruger is.

Ultimately, it's down to personal preference. I like the Rugers. Someone else might like the Winchesters. I'm not seeing a "wrong answer" either way.
 
#24 · (Edited)
I've had both Win and Ruger in 338 Win Mag. Winchester Extreem Weather and Ruger Hawkeye All Weather.

The Winchester had all the parts that would suggest a great gun. Bell and Carlson stock, light adjustable trigger (very nice), fluted and floated 26" barrel and CRF bolt. Lug contact was very good with about 70% contact on both lugs. It was about $1100. After much load development, it would continually throw flyers. The barrel was a very skinny .590" at the muzzle. About 30% of the shells failed to extract. They would come out of the chamber but spin around 180 degrees and face backwards in the loading port. Gunsmith could not fix it. Feeding was a little catchey too which required some light feathering of the bolt to get some rounds to feed. Groups regularily printed 1-1/2" with two touching and a flyer. The Winchester never really responded to attempts to improve reliability and accuracy and thus the cost of gunsmithing was wasted.

The Ruger Hawkeye was about $570 (on sale-discontinued caliber). It was heavier with a thicker 24" barrel. It had a decent trigger, metal floor plate and a CRF bolt. Lug contact was poor with no discernible contact on one lug and 15% contact on the other. With a small amount of load development, it shot 2-1/4". Stock was cheap plastic, The Ruger supplied rings slipped under recoil and gouged an expensive scope. About 30% of shells failed to extract (hit the ground) and just sat in the loading port. The mag box was very short and bullets could not quite reach the recommended max COL. Feeding was very smooth and reliable. Gunsmith gave it a great trigger and bedded the stock but it still shot poorly. I changed the rings and mounts, upgraded the stock and gunsmith bedded/fitted. Gunsmith fixed the extraction problem. I floated the barrel, I also changed powders and seatng depth and did more load development. It is now stone cold reliable. Accuracy is very good and repeatable (well under MOA). This rifle responded well to upgrades and gunsmithing and with these changes, I like the way the Ruger looks and feels.

The Ruger is heavier than the Winchester and that may be important depending on how you hunt. The extra weight does however do a lot to tame the recoil. All in all, both rifles out of the box were a disappointment. My experience is that most factory 338 Win Mags don't shoot that well anyway so maybe my expectations are to high. I do think however, any reliability issues are totally unacceptable. I'll give Ruger the edge in the reliability department because although I had a problem, it was easily fixed. Also, the Ruger out shoots the Winchester by a fair amount after various improvements. I'm told however that the Winchesters do very well in smaller calibers. The Winchester, with it's collection of "fancy parts", should have performed flawlessly but such was not the case and the expense of a gunsmith was added but the Winchester could not be helped. The Ruger started with a cheap plastic stock and I knew that going in. Sometimes those stocks work fine and sometimes they don't. Even with the cost of upgrades and gunsmithing, the Ruger gave me more gun for less money than the Winchester so in this case, I give the edge to Ruger.
 
#27 ·
I've had both Win and Ruger in 338 Win Mag. Winchester Extreem Weather and Ruger Hawkeye All Weather.

The Winchester had all the parts that would suggest a great gun. Bell and Carlson stock, light adjustable trigger (very nice), fluted and floated 26" barrel and CRF bolt. Lug contact was very good with about 70% contact on both lugs. It was about $1100. After much load development, it would continually throw flyers. The barrel was a very skinny .590" at the muzzle. About 30% of the shells failed to extract. They would come out of the chamber but spin around 180 degrees and face backwards in the loading port. Gunsmith could not fix it. Feeding was a little catchey too which required some light feathering of the bolt to get some rounds to feed. Groups regularily printed 1-1/2" with two touching and a flyer. The Winchester never really responded to attempts to improve reliability and accuracy and thus the cost of gunsmithing was wasted.

The Ruger Hawkeye was about $570 (on sale-discontinued caliber). It was heavier with a thicker 24" barrel. It had a decent trigger, metal floor plate and a CRF bolt. Lug contact was poor with no discernible contact on one lug and 15% contact on the other. With a small amount of load development, it shot 2-1/4". Stock was cheap plastic, The Ruger supplied rings slipped under recoil and gouged an expensive scope. About 30% of shells failed to extract (hit the ground) and just sat in the loading port. The mag box was very short and bullets could not quite reach the recommended max COL. Feeding was very smooth and reliable. Gunsmith gave it a great trigger and bedded the stock but it still shot poorly. I changed the rings and mounts, upgraded the stock and gunsmith bedded/fitted. Gunsmith fixed the extraction problem. I floated the barrel, I also changed powders and seatng depth and did more load development. It is now stone cold reliable. Accuracy is very good and repeatable (well under MOA). This rifle responded well to upgrades and gunsmithing and with these changes, I like the way the Ruger looks and feels.

The Ruger is heavier than the Winchester and that may be important depending on how you hunt. The extra weight does however do a lot to tame the recoil. All in all, both rifles out of the box were a disappointment. My experience is that most factory 338 Win Mags don't shoot that well anyway so maybe my expectations are to high. I do think however, any reliability issues are totally unacceptable. I'll give Ruger the edge in the reliability department because although I had a problem, it was easily fixed. Also, the Ruger out shoots the Winchester by a fair amount after various improvements. I'm told however that the Winchesters do very well in smaller calibers. The Winchester, with it's collection of "fancy parts", should have performed flawlessly but such was not the case and the expense of a gunsmith was added but the Winchester could not be helped. The Ruger started with a cheap plastic stock and I knew that going in. Sometimes those stocks work fine and sometimes they don't. Even with the cost of upgrades and gunsmithing, the Ruger gave me more gun for less money than the Winchester so in this case, I give the edge to Ruger.
Humm, I only had two Ruger 77's in 338 Win.mag , one presented some nice 3/8 inch groups and the other an 1" to 1-1/2" groups,both at 100 yards. Recoil of the beast will play a very big part in the inaccuracy of an otherwise, very accurate rifle.
 
#25 ·
I have a Ruger MKII compact in .260 Remington, and it is a fine shooting rifle. If you like a carbine length bolt gun anyway! Off the bench it will put three shots touching at 100 yards(all the range the club has)if I do my part. It's stock, as it came from the factory, nice rifle.
 
#26 ·
Ruger M77 or Winchester Model 70,simple truth,can't go wrong with either, both are made well.Get the one that fits,nothing is more important.If you don't get good groups then you are either a bad shot or don't know how to handload for accuracy.
 
#29 ·
tough choice. I have both m77 and model 70 rifles. Both are very good. If you are on a budget consider the m77. The only thing I don't like about the m77's are the factory triggers, but that is fairly easy to remedy. Some of the older Ruger rifles had some quality issues when barrels were out sourced. Ruger corrected the problem by bringing them back in-house. All of my M77's are the stainless steel models... 3 of them 30-06, .260, .338. The Model 70 feather weight is .270 win. Looks beautiful but can wander a bit if you don't let the barrel cool between shots. Trigger is awesome on 70. Tough choice. Both are very good. I'd probably look for a Ruger with price being the decider.
 
#30 ·
I have never owned a WIN. model 70 or a Ruger M77. I have shot quiet a few of my friends in 257, 270, 7MM and 30-06 cals. Both have heavy felt recoil due to stock shape. I have been beating around the bush lately thinking about getting a Ruger Mark 2 SS 243 Laminate version just because. I read a lot this morning about the Ruger Mark 2 this morning. Most owners said they where pretty accurate but most replaced the triggers. I just can't see spending $800.00 on a gun then spending more to get it to shoot better. I don't know what the Winchester guns are going for but it sounds like if your wanting a gun that will shoot better than 1 inch at a hundred the Winnie is the way to go. They already have all the improvement out of the box. Also don't rule out the Weatherby they are superb shooting guns with much better shaped stocks. My Father and I have 2 Weatherby Vanguards with out the stage 2 triggers and they shoot great. I just wish one of them was the Deluxe model.