As an aside - I believe that most military and law enforcement are personally pro-Constitution.
But consider that the Democrats are forcing the Capitol police and the military to conduct background checks on members.
They've already "identified" so called "far right" members and drummed them out of service.
I can't think of a better premise to assure your enforcement agencies are filled with loyalists.
It's a sobering thought.

 

When in power, you always keep the people who are loyal to you, close, and eliminate the one's who are not. That is how you stay in power. Unfortunately, the ignorant prefer living on their knees, than standing on their feet.

 

Hey Bubba,

Two words.

Bonus March!

 

I believe there are more good cops than bad cops.
I also believe that most of them will do what they are told , because they don't want to loose their cushy retirement.

 

The entire police forces of Maryland, New Jersey and California overwhelmingly support gun control and willingly infringe on citizen's rights to do enforce it.

I interact with Maryland and New Jersey occasionally .............but I work with California LE daily. I know these guys in a way most here can never know.

So I'll say as fact, why? Because I know ..........the above in bold is false information.

 

The entire police forces of Maryland, New Jersey and California overwhelmingly support gun control and willingly infringe on citizen's rights to do enforce it.

I interact with Maryland and New Jersey occasionally .............but I work with California LE daily. I know these guys in a way most here can never know.

So I'll say as fact, why? Because I know ..........the above in bold is false information.

I'll give you a fudge factor on California since they seemed to be such a mixed bag. My encounters with them weren't very favorable as an airman stationed there.
Plus you must admit that the rhetoric from the politicians - aka the authority I mentioned - are squarely against the gun owners. Cops in major cities calling a rifle and pistol and "arsenal" with 500 rounds as a "stockpile".
Maryland and New Jersey? Read the news. I'm sure they have some that won't toe that line but there are many documented cases of folks that have been arrested and convicted of some ridiculous charges - like a spent cartridge, tourist from other states that have a carry permit being pulled over for a vehicle search.
The facts are squarely in support of my statement.

Florida Man with Gun at Home Gets Pulled Over, Searched, 'Humiliated' in Maryland (breitbart.com)

 

uh oh, now you've done it! can i decide which one of you gets put in time out?

 

Four letters.

BATF.

 

We can throw the FBI into that mix as well but this is specifically about police and military which are by far the largest "enforcement".

 

Why do we put this kind of trust in law enforcement and military?

In one word TRADITION. Many of the people who unquestioningly support the police and military are mostly older folks who do so based on the experiences of past decades. And many cannot keep up with the rapidly changing times. They put their trust in law enforcement and military because TRADITIONALLY those professions/personnel were accepted by the majority of the population as upstanding and always doing the right thing. And that may very well have been the case once upon a time. But times change, society changes, perceptions change. And the institution of policing changes as well. I think we are witnessing a dynamic transition period with regard to policing and public perception of police in particular and an erosion of public trust in authority figures in general.

 

Several of my kin and family friends are/were in law enforcement. I was raised to have nothing but respect for the job.
I fear that we are in fact seeing a shift in officer selection. As I mentioned this is actively going on in the military at this moment.
I served in the USAF and I can say that I am appalled at the leadership caving to the demands made at behest of the liberal puppetmasters telling the Commander in Chief how to purge the military of folks loyal to the Constitution. The military's first allegiance is to the Constitution and this nation yet they now bow to the POTUS with no regards to the Constitution.

 

I have had the opportunity to visit with some of the officers here, not a one of them is worried about their cushy retirement. The thing that weighs most with them is getting home at the end of their shift.
Yes there are good and bad cops or even cops who are just plain lazy. But the overwhelming majority of cops are just like you and I. Hard working honest brave souls who for some unknown reason run towards gunfire. Or hug a child in need. Or just drive in circles watching.
He gave all. My nephew was a good cop. As are many others.

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I have had the opportunity to visit with some of the officers here, not a one of them is worried about their cushy retirement. The thing that weighs most with them is getting home at the end of their shift.
Yes there are good and bad cops or even cops who are just plain lazy. But the overwhelming majority of cops are just like you and I. Hard working honest brave souls who for some unknown reason run towards gunfire. Or hug a child in need. Or just drive in circles watching.
He gave all. My nephew was a good cop. As are many others.

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Again - this isn't about being a cop hater/lover.
Overwhelmingly I support police.
But folks need to understand they are not some high moral pinnacle they can trust to be the last line of defense.
My opinion is good cop or bad if the confiscation order comes down, there will be plenty of police that will enforce it.
So please - let's skip the defenses and try to have a rational discussion on the implications.
I have personally asked the question "If weapons were banned , and if you were directed to confiscate weapons from owners - would you do it?".
Invariably the answer is "if it's the law then it's my job to enforce it".
So no thought given to the Constitutionality of it all - merely follow orders essentially.
Another thought; have you ever heard of anyone giving an officer an option on moral or Constitutional principles?

 

I no longer have trust in any gov agency. and im retired from the Sheriffs dept.

 

Interesting - You'll note I did not mention the Sheriffs
In my experience the Sheriffs are far less likely to enforce confiscation orders.
They seem to have a better grasp on Constitutional principles and a sense of serving the people.
With exceptions like Travis County Texas Sheriff "amnesty" Hernandez.

 

Let's get a few facts together to help see things clearly, at least my thoughts on the subject.
The Active or Reserve US Military was not used in D.C. to protect the criminals that stole the presidency. The units that were sent there, were Natioanl Gaurd troops from several states. The Federal military could not be used in this fashion. The decision had nothing to do with the Joint Chiefs of staff, as far as I know. The NG troopers were under the orders of their governors.
As far as china goes. Hong Kong is part of China. They are not a seperate country. The U.K.s lease in the city expired in 1997 and they had to pull out and give control back to the Chinese Communist party. The Chicoms are not going to let Hong Kong residents enjoy more freedoms that democracy has to offer, when the rest of the country is watching and doing without. So their cracking down on dissenters is not a surprise.
The Capitol Police command failed miserably, back in January. A female veteran was murdered by someone who may have been an officer, I don't have any real info to follow on this. I do know that the Antifa/BLM goons were involved in instigating confrontations with the Capitol police. I also know that some of the protestors went way beyond being civil and brought the troubles they have upon themselves. I support the protest, but not the damage that was done to the physical Capitol building, but also to the nation, by a handful of people.
I know many police officers and worked as one for years. None of them would attempt to follow an order that would require them to confiscate firearms or arrest people that are standing up for the Constitution. I feel an officer making $40,000 a year, is not going to knowingly go up against armed individuals, just to confiscate guns based on what the Idiots in D.C. want. I am unable to think of what the Federal LEOs, would do, but if Ruby Ridge, Waco and the standoff several years ago between Bureau of Land Management and a bunch of armed citizens on horseback, they would have to give their actions a long hard thought before taking action.
Andrew

 

Let's get a few facts together to help see things clearly, at least my thoughts on the subject.
The Active or Reserve US Military was not used in D.C. to protect the criminals that stole the presidency. The units that were sent there, were Natioanl Gaurd troops from several states. The Federal military could not be used in this fashion. The decision had nothing to do with the Joint Chiefs of staff, as far as I know. The NG troopers were under the orders of their governors.
As far as china goes. Hong Kong is part of China. They are not a seperate country. The U.K.s lease in the city expired in 1997 and they had to pull out and give control back to the Chinese Communist party. The Chicoms are not going to let Hong Kong residents enjoy more freedoms that democracy has to offer, when the rest of the country is watching and doing without. So their cracking down on dissenters is not a surprise.
The Capitol Police command failed miserably, back in January. A female veteran was murdered by someone who may have been an officer, I don't have any real info to follow on this. I do know that the Antifa/BLM goons were involved in instigating confrontations with the Capitol police. I also know that some of the protestors went way beyond being civil and brought the troubles they have upon themselves. I support the protest, but not the damage that was done to the physical Capitol building, but also to the nation, by a handful of people.
I know many police officers and worked as one for years. None of them would attempt to follow an order that would require them to confiscate firearms or arrest people that are standing up for the Constitution. I feel an officer making $40,000 a year, is not going to knowingly go up against armed individuals, just to confiscate guns based on what the Idiots in D.C. want. I am unable to think of what the Federal LEOs, would do, but if Ruby Ridge, Waco and the standoff several years ago between Bureau of Land Management and a bunch of armed citizens on horseback, they would have to give their actions a long hard thought before taking action.
Andrew

I did say military AND National Guard. My understanding was there were military in charge of the troops deployed at the Capitol.
There's not really a whole lot of difference between the two - speaking as one who served.
You're right the JCs were not involved - why is that? You comfortable with politicians (mostly Democrats) ordering soldiers about?
My point with Hong Kong - which you absolutely missed - is that the very same police that the country depended on to protect them, turned on a dime into tools of the communists.
That's the scary point I was making - one day your protection - the next your enemy because of a change in the political climate.
Those men apparently had no problem with turning on their countrymen.
As far as you knowing officers wouldn't go to confiscate paid $40,000 a year - what about no-knock warrants?
There have been officers shot for barging into someone's house without notice - there is risk and they took it. So not a good argument.
Nothing about a no-knock warrant is constitutional. Nothing. Yet some judge ruled it was ok and damned if the police didn't run with it.
You think any of those men expressed concerns to their superiors about how "right" the no-knock is?
Just like no officers have expressed problems with civil asset forfeiture - in fact they made a web site to brag about how big their hauls are!
As far as BLM and the Bundy family. BLM stood down after the media got there but that whole issue had enough blame to go around.
Please note that you're making my point with this one as the BLM was needlessly escalating and provoking a response.
Indeed it was compared to Ruby Ridge at the time. BLM Law Enforcement stepping over the line while just following orders.
If it hadn't been for the Governor and others getting involved and sic'ing the media on the situation it likely would have been another Ruby Ridge.

 

I would add that Obama/Biden were the two clowns that made military grade gear available to police forces.
In fact Obama declared an interest in creating a National Police Force.

 

I believe Obama still has those ambitions, he isn't done with fundamentally changing America.

Jack

 

after 23 years my "cushy retirement" is $1200.00 a month. BEFORE taxes. i lay awake nights wondering what i'm going to do with all that extra cash.

 

People have various opinions. But when I was a cop I was proud to be in the profession and did my best to do the right thing. Did I make mistakes? Yes, I did. Cops are human and the job is tougher now than ever, it seems. I sure couldn't do it now. They aren't supported by their communities like we were back in the day. Their hands are tied and they are over regulated. They simply can't pursue crime and criminals they way I was used to. Now things are more dangerous for everyone because of it. In Albuquerque it is so bad that cops are being told to park their cars and wait for calls. They avoid potential conflicts and the crooks know it. They have to worry about losing their jobs with every action they take. That is now their priority because they have no support from their communities or department leadership. It is more important than ever to be ready to defend yourself. Cops would love to help but their hands are often tied far too tightly.

 

Just about every segment of society expects far to much from Law enforcement. From answering bs burgler alarms to complaining about legal activity that someone disapproves of to expecting them to turn their back or mitigate juvenel criminal behavior because they're from a "good" family. Mayors,municipal officials and Govenors talk about "their" Police force. CIVILIAN law enforcement doesn't help itself by welcomeing militarisation. If you liked it so much you shoulda stayed in. UCMJ and all.

 

"We should never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal and everything the Hungarian Freedom Fighters did in Hungary was illegal."

Dr Martin Luther King Jr.

 

...until his death (june 4,1942) Reinhard Heydrich was the internationally awarded Headchief of Interpol.
also CEO of other well-known companies & internal agencies, as you know.

 

I'm a former Marine. I know all the local LEO's in my small town in Washington state. They're all good real Americans. The state forces crazy gun control laws on them. They choose not to enforce crazy laws that haven't passed by the state supreme court. These guys protect us from the homeless that are attracted by the state's liberal "Sanctuary" laws. I could tell you horror stories, but after 30 years in this state, we're moving back to the motherland of Florida, on acreage. Seattle has turned into the biggest liberal city in the country, with Portland and San Francisco. I watched my mouth mods, but if I offended some one, please let me know, and I'll delete my post.

 

the cops are suppose to protect and serve and honor there oath they took to the constitution. if they will just do that they can win back and keep the trust of citizens,,,,,,,,,,,

 

IMO, it goes back to the concept of tabula rassa. In essence, why aren't people "brainwashed" from birth? Because during the course of brainwashing, which has a very bad ring to it, and a very poor reputation, a person's mind is not only saturated with new information, but also stripped of old information. But somebody being brainwashed, generally has been brought up, and shown one knowledge paradigm, originally, and then, when they are brainwashed, their perceptions are altered, to introduce, and embed another knowledge paradigm. But, what if originally taught information is as bad, or worse, than the knowledge paradigm of a brainwashing?

But, it is always simply assumed, and accepted, that the precepts we are taught, from birth, are correct and proper, when it is very possible, (and probable) that certain mis-informations are an inherent paradigm of our original upbringing, and education.

Case in point-a long time ago, in a galaxy, far, far away, a man and his wife were at home, on a Friday night, and some
partying neighbors were making a racket, past midnight. Wifey wanted to call the police, but husband sez "let it go".
Well neighbors started shooting off fireworks, and bottle rockets too close to Wifey's car, so she called the police. Wifey was sure, that:
1. The police would arrive in seconds.
2. Arrests would be made.
3. Fireworks would be confiscated.
4. There would be consequences and repercussions, and Order would be restored.

Now Husband, who had far more experience in the neighborhood, and with the local law enforcement, explained to Wifey, that:

1. It will take the police a half hour to arrive. (took 32 minutes)
2. They wouldn't arrest anybody. (they didn't)
3. The police would proceed to identify the people who summoned them. (they did)
4. The party would continue, when the police left, moments later. (OH, it did)

Now, young Wifey was somewhat taken aback, by the events of the evening, because she had always been assured by her parents, school, and society in general, that the police were there to "protect and serve" her. Husband, OTOH, was far more in tune with what was actually going to happen.

But, let's focus upon Wifey's misperception, for a moment. The point of the whole story isn't that the police acted improperly, in any way. The point of the story is Wifey's perception of Law Enforcement, which she had been taught from birth, was, to be kind, less than wholly accurate, or realistic.

And, IMHO, this LE perception, versus LE reality, is the cognitive dissonance, which is causing many problems between Law Enforcement, and the public at large, today. Unfortunately public trust is being sacrificed, on the altar of
expedience. and reality.

 

As an old cop I can tell you that the officers understand the risks they are taking far better than anyone who has not worked in law enforcement. They accept those risks and do the best they can. What has changed recently is that the community support seems to have evaporated. Now they are under constant scrutiny to the point where they have to defend every action they take. Despite the risks officers have a right to do what is necessary to get home each day. They have a right to defend themselves and a duty to defend others. If they use lethal force it should be investigated to ensure their actions were reasonable but they shouldn't be persecuted and presumed guilty. The current work environment for many police departments is so bad now that good people will likely turn away from a career in law enforcement. That means that when something bad is done by a police officer in the future the police department will likely say "That's the only cop we could get".

 

What has changed recently is that the community support seems to have evaporated. Now they are under constant scrutiny to the point where they have to defend every action they take.

Naturally we must ask the question why "community support seems to have evaporated." Why the increase in scrutiny? These trends don't just randomly happen. What inspired them?

 

It is quite difficult, trying to perform your job while using both hands to cover your butt.

 

Paid Fire Departments have their pick of applicants. Some of the most elite Law enforcement agencies in the country are scratching for recruits. Why?

 

Lack of respect, low pay, bad benefits, crappy equipment, defunding, you name it.

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My opinion is that the anti-police media hype has vilified police officers. Yes, there are some cops that shouldn't be in that profession, but that is true of all professions. The media loves controversy and will promote it whenever possible. They love cop bashing. They don't report on the good things they do every day. How about we give every cop in the country 2 weeks off at the same time? Then we can reevaluate the need for police.

As for fire departments, really? Fire fighters don't get vilified for using too much water to put out a fire. They aren't sent to stop actions of violent people. They clean up afterwards.

 

My opinion is that the anti-police media hype has vilified police officers.

As dumb as I think the masses are, I do think that after years of living in society, they are quite capable of making their own judgements on police. If cops are good to me, I will forever appreciate that and respect them...regardless of what anti-cop propaganda the media bombards me with. And the reverse is equally true - if cops treat me badly, I will forever bear a grudge against them.

I trust my fellow Citizens to make their own good judgements based on their own personal experiences to date. I think the Golden Rule principle applies.

 

firefighers haven't guns_ cops have guns_ ask you who is to be blamed first and why_
(I've known not-so-good FF also, here: long story, but I was not-so-pleased by our own red heroes)_

 

Ive known some Volunteer Firefighters that really took the cake with their pyromania.

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BTW folks - some of y'all are skirting the edges of cop bashing or fanboy posts.
This is about trusting authority to do the right thing when the government decides to disarm the citizenry.
I maintain history shows us that police and military are more beholden to the folks giving orders than they are the actual Constitution - the law of our land.

 

I maintain history shows us that police and military are more beholden to the folks giving orders than they are the actual Constitution - the law of our land.

I retired from both military and law enforcement careers. In both capacities the people I worked with were not the sort to obey an unlawful order of a superior. Honestly, I don't see where this conversation is getting us. Someone who has never served as a law enforcement officer will never understand what its like. If your local agencies will allow it, go ride along with an officer in the worst part of town on swing shift. I worked the streets in Albuquerque for 10 years. I might know something of what I'm talking about.

 

Human nature. Police are human, just like the rest of us. How many people would give up their way of living, their homes, financial security for their families, even their lives, for something they believe is "right"? A very small percentage of people will actually give everything they own, including their lives for something they believe in. Most will convince themselves of anything they have to in order to justify what they do. It's human nature.
This country was built by a very small percentage of very special men and women. Most people wanted nothing to do with treason against their own government, and fighting their own military and police. I suspect the survival of this Republic will be no different.
"Knowing the right thing is the easy part. The hard part is doing the right thing, knowing ahead of time what's going to happen to you for doing it..." Clarence Thomas.

 

Human nature. Police are human, just like the rest of us. How many people would give up their way of living, their homes, financial security for their families, even their lives, for something they believe is "right"? A very small percentage of people will actually give everything they own, including their lives for something they believe in. Most will convince themselves of anything they have to in order to justify what they do. It's human nature.
This country was built by a very small percentage of very special men and women. Most people wanted nothing to do with treason against their own government, and fighting their own military and police. I suspect the survival of this Republic will be no different.
"Knowing the right thing is the easy part. The hard part is doing the right thing, knowing ahead of time what's going to happen to you for doing it..." Clarence Thomas.

Thanks - this is more in line of the conversation I was hoping to have.
You're observation about the founding fathers is dead on IMHO.
I have often wondered how many men were as passionate as those men who were the architects of the American Revolution.
We'd like to believe they all were but I have my doubts - but what percentage?
I'd place it pretty high since there were many men fighting with precious little to defend.
But by the time they kicked the hornet's nest pretty much the entirety of the colonies had to decide which side their bread was buttered on.