buy a used one - 2007 or earlier - you might need to re-load to get the 3000 ft lbs....I haven't bought any off the shelf so I don't know whats available - others will chime in with a complete answer -

while I've never been to our largest state I think some of the guides up there carry a short barreled 45-70 to go after the big bears in thick cover -

 

For sure, buy Marlin and NOT Remlin!!!!!!!!!

Then there are some commercially loaded rounds with a Wide Flat Nose cast bullet that will get er done.

Personally, as a hand loader, I'd suggest a WFN cast bullet something over 400gr at a velocity of about 1500fps +/-.

My WFN cast 465gr bullet works through a Marlin, although I'm using it in a RUGER #1, and at 1650fps it would get the job done. No question about it.

Be aware, and you can check this out in the writings of Randy Garrett or on the Beartooth Bullets web site, that velocities much above 1700fps DECREASE penetration as will expansion of jacketed expanding bullets.

The Wide Flat Nose cast bullet is VERY effective on game. If it expands, so be it, but with the large meplat of the WFN, it is not needed to get er done!

Penetration is AWESOME!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

 

Try to find one of the non ported ones. Your ears will thank you.

 

Watch the classifieds here as well.

 

I've never been around critters with the potential of a grizzly so I'm talking out my tail but if I was going to among them often I'd be looking along the lines of Phil Shoemaker's "Old Ugly". Under those circumstances when a rifle is needed it's needed badly. Old Ugly is a .458 Win Mag cut down to 20.5" with the action worked, a Brown Precision stock, a small picitinny rail for a light and a 2.5x Leupold. It's his stopping rifle and from what I gather both he and the rifle are very good at what they do. 500gr Soft Points around 2000fps.


I've worked with a 458 Win Mag and while not fun from the bench they are manageable. When called upon I'd say recoil would not be noticed.

 

Don't be so afraid of the Remington manufactured Marlins. There's definitely some trouble years (2007-2013ish) but I've seen three great newly manufactured rifles with excellent function and solid fit/finish.

I have a 2016 made 1895 SBL in 45-70 with 600 rounds through her. The action has broken in nicely, she's really smooth, a clean trigger break and she'll put up 3-inch, 5 shot groups at 100 yards.

Thats enough to kill a brown bear.

 

Wrong dates--Remlins started production in 2010 when the CT facility was shut down and production was completely moved to Ilon, NY. BTW--I have still seen some Remlin clunkers at the LGS made during 2015--and yes--I checked the Remington manufacturing code stamp.

 

I've been to Alaska a few times and can attest to the popularity of the big bore Marlin leverguns. Personally, I'd rather have my Guide Gun (45/70) than a big bore bolt gun because I can fire multiple shots faster with the Marlin and reload it faster than a bolt gun. YMMV.

 

Which is exactly why I invested in my 338 MX after having a close call with a big brownie while elk hunting and suddenly realizing how vulnerable I would have been had he charged up the ravine at me and me with a Tikka bolty in 300 WSM ... I would have been in trouble. So, after that close call and me almost soiling my britches, I came home and looked at a lot of different options and decided on a levergun. Almost did a deal on a 1895 LTD III with another member here, but he backed out on me at the last minute so then I went with the 338 MX and am glad I did. I got very lucky.

I'd say Marlin makes several apropriate leverguns that would suit the OP's needs in no particular order. 338 MX, 45-70, 450, 444 ... but I agree, if it's strictly about big brownies and nothing else, then any of the big bore choices with hard cast pills would probably work. My opinion is though, and this is suggested having been to Alaska many times with a friend who owns a lodge up there ... seems to me like most of the locals carry slugged pump 12 gauges if it's strictly about the bears. I know we always had one with us when fishing the streams. I know the state troopers carry them up there. I know if it were me and it was strictly about defending myself from bears - I'd have an extended tube high cap Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870 and I'd practice with it until I felt comfortable enough to know I could hit what was running at me, while under pressure.

 

I would say the Marlin is a good choice. I've got glass on mine which makes it just a hair less handy. Quick on target though. I would even consider a lever in .44 mag, 454 Casull, or a warmed up .45 Colt for a real handy package and a few more shells on board. Even then it is liable to end up leaning against a tree. More than a rifle, I would look for a strong pistol like a Redhawk in .480 Ruger, or hot .45 Colt loads. I lean toward the lower pressure rounds in pistol with 300+ gr. bullets at moderate velocity, as I might wanna hear stuff again after all the shootings over.

 

Just wanted to add that the Marlins marked JM on the barrel are more desirable, but then the later JM Marlins had problems also...

And the kinetic energy want is a place to start, but momentum kills and penetrates better. Heavy bullets at moderate velocity don't generate big numbers, but they just kill stuff.

 

A JM made Marlin with a heavy wide meplat bullet at low speed would be what I was looking for in bear territory. Or the 525 gr. pile driver at low speed.

 

All great advice above....for your son's case I would skip the glass and put on peeps....also...if not a reloader... look at HSM 430 gr Bear Load.

 

This is what I would buy, if you were buying brand new....

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...info.php/cPath/36_107_980/products_id/3731/HENRY+H010AW+STEEL+45-70+ALL+WEATHER

 

For what it's worth, I wouldnt have a problem with using g a 45-70 GG for brown bear self defense but, I would probably be more comfortable with a quality self defense shotgun such as the Mossberg 930 Watchdog.


Hunting allows an individual the opportunity of surprise in which to choose the time and place in which you will make your move.
This allows the rifleman the chance to place one well placed bullet right where it needs to be.

However, should you need a firearm for self defense you must understand the fact that your no longer the hunter, the Grizzly is.

In this case your going to be on the ground with a bear which can run up to 35 mph.
Basically, this should allow a bear to run a 100yrd dash in just under 15 seconds.
Or a 50yrds dash in 7.5 seconds
Needless to say this bear would cover 25yrds faster than I just typed this sentence.

Aiming comes down to a quick shoulder, point and shoot to say the least.

This is a real "Oh Sheats" (made of cotton) moment and, 8 rounds of OO buckshot are what I want in my hands when things become danger close.

 

This is the soundest advice imo given the circumstances and which is why the considerable majority of guides actually use 12 gauge shotguns and/or bear mace. I am going to be chastised I am sure but the label Guide gun is misleading and a promotional label more than an actual reality. Great gun for hunting but for self defense, that's a whole nuther paradigm to consider.

 

Yes a Marlin 1895 GG with an 18.5 inch barrel will work perfectly. Lightweight, quick pointing, quick follow up shot, ability to install a peep like a Skinner Alaskan. Do not buy a Remington made gun unless you can inspect it first, or have the skills to fix what is wrong with it when it shows up and you did not inspect it first.

I am with Crusty ole deary old coot in regards to loads. Randy Garrett or Buffaloe Bore or Underwood stuff is all good but a 425 gr. Bear Tooth Bullet Pile Driver Junior at 1550 - 1650 fps will go in one end of a bear and out the other AND not dislocate your collarbone in the process. I am currently working up a load with H335 for my LTD III for my Idaho trip in a couple of months.

 

This brings up something I've wondered about. Buffalobore touts some commercial 45/70 ammo achieving 3500 ft lb m.e. +P they call it. Are these older Marlin 1895 lever guns capable of withstanding the pressure to achieve that? SAAMI says 2800 cup as I recall. Buffalobore conveniently doesn't mention pressure.

 

All good comments. I'll pass this thread to him. He carries a Redhawk .44mag and Mossberg 12GA pump with collapsible stock. Not sure if that's good or bad if you need a quick shot. Good to have an idea about the "bad Years" if he goes looking for used.

 

I also think the 1895 45/70 is a great choice for bear protection.
But I don't think your son is under gun with his revolver & 12ga for bear protection. Many state troopers ride w/ a 12ga to dispatch game/protection.

 

Whatever firearm one chooses, it is up to the individual to become proficient with it. An 1895G or similar would work well, loaded accordingly to the game. A JM or REP stamped gun should be well checked over and fired significantly to test the shooter and firearm reliability

 

To me this is the best advice I've read. Doesn't matter what you carry if you're not proficient with it not much else will help. I always love reading and engaging in cc conversations, especially with friends. Those that claim a 9mm is to light and a .45 should be carried, never accept the offer of allowing me to shoot them in the head with a .22 if I allow them to shoot me next with a .45 Nothing is ever strong enough unless you are at the receiving end and even then, a plastic spork in the right hands can be the difference between life or death!

 

In my experience, the ported dings me less than those on either side of me on the firing line.

As much as I love my g/g, I also have an 870 in 12, as does my son. First in buckshot, next 3 in slugs. I think if I were hunting, it's obvious what I'd carry, but if just seeking pure protection, not sure which of the two would be my pick. That cheap shotgun can inflict some awful thunder when it counts.

FWIW, I shoot one load in my 1895, 425 wide meplats I cast myself, with 39.7 gr IMR 4198, out the barrel at about 1710 fps.

 

Don't look to closely at my 1895GS in my avatar pic...

Its loaded with 525gr Beartooth Piledrivers @ 1600fps.

 

I have owned and currently own JM Marlins made in 2008 and 2009. They are as good as anything made by the CT Marlin factory during that era. I only own one Remlin----a 2012 308MX--only because I got to kick the tires. I personally haven't found another Remlin that I would buy--they all seem to have QA/QC issues in my locale.

 

if he really wants a lever gun, then 45-70 seems the logical way to go. Another option would be a pump 12ga loaded up with slugs.

I would feel comfortable with either.

 

If a 444 Marlin can get it done--so will a 45-70 or 338MX:
Marlin 444 & Grizzly
The 444 takes care of another problem grizzly

 

I wouldn't feel under-gunned with a Marlin GG in 45-70, and I would be using at a MINIMUM a BTB 425gr Piledriver Junior for the job. At 1600fps these penetrate almost completely through 24" of solid oak....so should be fine on a big brown.....but most importantly you will be able to keep the bear on target and throw a few into him/her if necessary (and I'd probably shoot till it was all the way down!!).
The issue with the buffalobore stuff isn't whether or not your rifle can "take it" but, can YOU! Those things will ROCK YOUR WORLD especially if you are snap shotting and the rifle isn't seated in your shoulder well.
Also, I'd like to recommend one of these versions of the "Marlin guide gun" which is the Big Loop:
The reason is two more rounds in the tube! Your normal short tube guide gun is 3+1, these are 6+1, plus the big loop if you are wearing gloves or mittens.

Another option is this one...Ruger Guide Gun in 375 Ruger...I LOVE mine!! I use a 270gr bullet at 2600fps and will drop anything within 500yds. OR you can use a 300gr bullet at 2400fps that is VERY easy on the shoulder and will also drop ANYTHING ON THE PLANET WITHIN 300YDS.
Here is mine, with and without it's glass....it is a tack driver either way, and the muzzlebrake is removable to be replaced with a weight that equals the weight of the brake, so no POI adjustments necessary!

 

There's a pro golfer from my city that was a pro at a golf course in Alaska. He always carried a Winchester model 12 with slugs. 00 buck, slug and so on loaded carried in his golf bag. He said he used it a couple times and it was very effective.

 

Mazer - I've got a mirror image of that Guide Gun in 375 Ruger. It shoots amazingly well with 260 Partitions and 270 TSX bullets. I used the Partitions on a large Bison and he actually stopped both bullets in the hide on the off side. He did fall over dead but I was surprised neither bullet exited.
If I was hunting BIG toothy bears I think I'd go with the TSX. :biggrin::biggrin:

 

Gee, I don't know if I would want buckshot for big bear. I don't think there is anything much better for smaller bear and stuff moving up fast. But I don't think those balls have quite enough penetration

A quality #00 buckshot will penetrate apx 20" of ballistic gelatin with between nine and twelve .33 cal balls .
If deeper penetration is needed there are plated buckshot which can be chosen.

With an eight round capacity, you could potentially send ninety six balls of love in the direction of anything which assaults you.

A link for those which are interested.
Scroll down for the buckshot and slug test's

Shotgun Penetration With Various Rounds - The Truth About Guns

 

A couple things about that: I've seen tests with gel and one ball made it about 15" and the rest were slightly behind. That is about how far a .22 lr will penetrate. A bear's brain is about the size of a grapefruit and will be bobbing and moving side to side as it charges. Might be a good choice to hit something that size, except I've heard of a few instances where projectiles that seemingly should have gotten through didn't. I believe somewhat due to the angle of the shot. For some reason Alaska troopers do not recommend buckshot for big bears.

To put the whole power equation into perspective once the buck starts to spread, it's only a 54 grain projectile at 1300 fps.