Take a look at Buffalo Bore, not cheap, but in my opinion they make some of the best factory loaded ammunition.

Otherwise you are probably going to want a heavy hard cast bullet.

 

Garrett, Buffalo Bore, or HSM would be a start for factory loads.

 

+1 on heavy hard cast bullets. You also should seriously consider having a large bore revolver with you that also can shoot heavy hard cast bullets.

 

Any thing other than "Cowboy" loads will do the job. The so called anemic 405 soft point factory loads at 1300 fps. have taken a lot of bears over the years.

 

At least with HSM, the so-called "anemic" Cowboy loads are indeed the 405 grainers at 1300 fps. Except that at 15 BHN I wouldn't exactly call them soft point. I know for a fact that they pass the fingernail test-you can't put a scratch on them.

Which begs the question I've always wanted somebody with a lot more knowledge than myself to answer: If one subscribes to Randy Garrett's long-held principle that penetration increases as MV slows down, why wouldn't this round or one like it be the perfect bear stopper? It makes sense to me. Sure, you lose hydrostatic shock but that bullet is going to penetrate that bear for days. If your shot placement is good, seems like it would work. Plus, you could get back on target quickly for follow up if there was time for any.

 

HSM 430 grain.........

 

Buffalo Bore is a great choice, as others have already posted. I only have to deal with Black Bears here in PA, but Buffalo Bore also makes ammo for my 357. I load my Ruger GP100 with 180 grain BB ammo and don't spend any time worrying. Great rifle ammunition too. One well placed round will do the trick.

I am sure you are not intending to kill anything on your trip, but keep this in mind. The life of you and your family members is more important than anything on 4 legs. Except maybe if your last name is Clinton. :hmpf:


Enjoy!


Mike T.

 

Buffalo Bore gets my vote. They have a std pressure and a +P 430 grain LBT-LFN at 1550'/second and at 1925'/second. I'd probably get the std. pressure version because, you know, recoil.

 

I think the REM's in the 405 will work and they are gentler on the shoulder.......I am sure glad I learned to load my own though......way cheaper.....you can load it from mild to wild and I know that wild isn't good for my shoulder or accuracy though.I like the way the 405's recoil is but the hornady's (300's I think they were) gummy tips were way more recoil than I would like to shoot alot.Sure hope the dog doesn't turn tail and run back to it;'s master especially if they try to hide right behind you Jer

 

also look at Grizzly Cartridge or Corbon 460gr WFNGC

 

+1 Due to the fact you don't reload. Something cast and 405gr or more. Grizzly, Corbon, HSM, they all have a round engineered to stop mr bruin "dead in his tracks".

 

Yep, Garrett or Buffalo Bore (or others ) in a 405 or bigger cast bullet. For protection you want a bullet that will take out bone or brain to stop a bear in a hurry.

 

Like some of the others have said Garrett, Buffalo Bore, corbon, HSM bearload, Grizzly. If it were me I would leave the slow and mild loads out and go for the hotter ones as long as you practice with them. We're talking stopping a bear here not some theoretical study that doesn't even apply.

 

OK - so if you end up needing to shoot a bear in self defense it is a huge difference from hunting shot on a bear - the bear will likely be close and/or coming at you, you will want to inflict maximum damage and penetration through skull or heavy bone - Grizzly loads the 405 gr Punch bullet to 2000 fps with approx 3700 ft lbs of muzzle energy (I am taking these to Africa in August for Cape Buffalo) - Buffalo Bore loads a 500 gr fmj flat point to 1650 or so - both of these loads are designed for very deep, straight line penetration with a flat front to initiate hydro-static shock along the wound channel. Both are relatively expensive, but you are not plinking with them are you.

 

No bear experience but agree with others here. Which ever you choose, buy a few and practice. Maybe do some jumping jack(s) and push ups to get the chest heaving and then a "lever dump" on a target so you get the idea. If you can get a moving/swinging target, even better. Cardboard on a rope or pulley.... I've seen some ingenius target stands on slides with soap to slick the 2x4s, etc.

 

+1 Buffalo Bore.
Worth the extra $ when you "have" to use it.

 

I have shot Buffalo Bore, Garrett and HSM in 405gr and up. Any of those are fine with the added benefit that HSM is about 1/2 the price of the other two which allows some room in the budget to buy a box or two just for practice. Again I like them all. I leave the issue of 405gr or better to those who have actually shot bears with them and who can attest to their performance.

 

Hello from Alaska, Marlineers & Marlinettes.

As my fiancé plans blueberry picking trips out by Gunsight, past Sutton, I plan to meet Mr. Bear.

So far I have a bell on the collar of the most energetic Karelian Bear dog you've ever met, a fog horn to sound-off upon arrival and periodically throughout the day, and maybe even some of the bear mace (people seasoning).

Hmmm.. What else ....

Oh yeah my ol' 1895 (in .45-70) that's right. Of course, I can read reviews online, and what not.. But here is the question.

What loads do you guys trust? With you and yours' life?

Unfortunately, I do not hand load yet..So factory. For now.

It'll be a sad day, the day that I have to put a beast down in his own territory. I always do my best to make our presence known, but I owe it to future Mrs. BTB and the pups to be prepared, and to myself to make sure those blueberries get pie'd.

Thanks in advance,

--BTB

Liked ... for originality. Entertaining presentation, well done. :congrats:

BTW, you mentioned one of my favorite breeds. I call them Bear Border Collies. Fearless, smart as heck. I've got Blue Healers now and love them, but I've had Border Collies and Huskies. The only reason I don't have a Karelian is because of the heat and bugs down here ... learned that lesson rescuing Huskies for years.

BTW, FWIW, as much as I love 45-70 and what a romantic idea it is to carry one in bear country ... my buddies who run a lodge up there have always told me, "nothing stops a bear like a hard cast 12 gauge Brenneke slug."

Everything is going to happen inside of 40 meters anyways.

Here's a really good, old style, federal publication on living in bear country ... short but sweet, in PDF format. Not only does it talk about ballistic performance of various loads, but it talks about how to avoid those brownies in the first place. I had a close call run-in with a big brownie one time while Elk Hunting and almost soiled my pants. I completely changed my approach after that ... retired the 300 WSM bolty and invested in a .338 MX ... but if I was strictly carrying for protection, it would be a 12 gauge, pump 500 or 870, with an extended mag tube and loaded to the hilt with slugs.

Safety in Bear Country: Preventive Measures and Bullet and Slug performance at short range. (small PDF file).

 

I find it interesting that they didn't try some of the larger loads by Garnett etc

I still think for recoil - size (physical) and for the loads you can get for the 45-70 now your in pretty good shape....way better than bear spray and bells if it comes down to a charge

jer

 

First part about being in the woods, or bear country is that we are in their home, not ours. They are number 1, we are prey. So if a person fears bears so much, don't assume the risks. Hang our at walmart or whatever. I assume the risks and I always carry a rifle in the woods with me and my family, we have a dog which is a great deterrent, and most importantly I use what wits I have to avoid a situation.

 

Garrett advertises that this load is carried by NOAA, USGS, and NMFS for coastal grizz and built for modern Marlins. I'd be interested in reviews if anyone has dared to try one.

Garrett Cartridges Inc.

 

I have duplicated that load with a Beartooth Bullets Piledriver and H322.

Testing indicates the bullets are still out there, going through something....

 

I wouldn't be afraid to take any animal with the 465gr load I developed. However I'm not going to go looking for Mr. pi*#%d of Griz just to prove my theory. I just know they will work just fine with their wide meplat, gas checked and powered by H335.

 

Anybody know of a side by side penetration comparison of the factory 405gn to the Garrett or Buffalo and the likes? Specific to this thread, (big bears) for me, not much of a debate. Having said that, a lot of green and yellow boxes out there, I's included. Must be an old guy thing, cuz like old guy, and I'm old too, I've been wonder'n about that myself.
John

 

I shot a dozen or so black bears (medium to large) with 300gr hp rem, 400gr speer, 350 Hornady and 420gr hard cast, 30 ft to 150 yards.

The later two are more than enough to kill any bear judging from the terminal damage and penetration. 350gr Hornady broke left shoulder, exited right ham on a 300lbs boar. A Quality 420 hardcast would probably shoot thru 2 or 3 bears?

 

Some years back, I had a AK moose hunt with a former co-worker, after we both retired. He retired one yr before me, and when I got to him, he flaked. Such is life.

Anyway I had emailed Randy Garrett about his 420gr hard cast loads. I told him it was for moose, for a slightly flatter trajectory out to 200yds, which I considered max. I asked if it would also double a a defense load from Brownies. His reply was that the 420gr hard cast would penetrate a grizzly end to end, at 100yds without question.

After reading Vince Lupo's accounts and adventures with the Marlin and Africa's big 5, I had no reason to doubt what he said. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) never got the chance to try.