That sounds crazy. I wonder if the recoil is way less. Would they be a good varmint load. I would be interested to hear what others know about these. Its the first ive heard of them.

 

I believe most of the bad press the .30-30 gets is due to poor shot placement. My first hunting rifle was a Marlin .30-30 336 RC and I killed a fair amount of deer with it. I was the youngest in our group and was given the the moniker "1-shot". I hunted one parcel of woods away from the group and if they heard a shot from my direction knew that I'd be draggin' a deer... I used home brewed 170 gr. Speer flat pts.

 

I have home loaded the 170 Speer bullets also and found they are very accurate. The .30-30 Marlin is an inherently accurate rifle, my opinion. I think much of the problem is that folks leave accuracy on the table by refusing to scope a lever rifle despite their not being able to use open sights worth a darn due to aging eyesight. Looks MOA to me but I have a scope on the little thing because I cannot see anymore and even when I could see much better than now, I could not do that but by accident at 100 yards, three shots from cold:



I was fooling around with the scope on this one below, started on bull 3, went to bull 1 and then finished on bull 2, again, looks pretty much MOA or close enough but I got a nice scope on it:



And that was factory ammo, the rifle above will stack at 100 yards with my home loads with the FTX 160 bullet and 34.0 grains of LR propellent. But not without a scope.

 

You just gave me an idea...RCBS 195gr (Lyman #2 weight) cast flat nose loaded with Trail Boss out of a Win 94 30/30!

 

its all about the Benjamins - they want to sell the sub sonic ammo and sell newer different cal rifles - if the truth be known we had all the calibers needed way over 100 years ago...

 

Agree on both counts - they're making something because there's a market for it... Somebody is going to buy the stuff. Saying "subsonic" is enough to get some folks all slathered up and reaching for their wallets.

And yes! This is 2020 - if we were limited to cartridges we had 100 years ago would it change my hunting capabilities at all? NO. Nor would it do much to my self-defense handguns. Think of it, which cartridges from over 100 years ago do you use? I use the heck out of some:

22 rimfire
30-30
30-06
375 H&H
45-70

38 Special
9mm
45 ACP

Ya, I make use of a bunch of old cartridges.

Oh, and I don't need to slow my 30-30 down that slow... I like it just fine with a 170 at about 2,000 fps. Or a cast lead plinker load at less speed, but still supersonic.

Guy

 

The only people that give the 30 30 a bad rep are the morons who have never hunted with one and like to spew a lot of hot wind, or the ones who made a bad shot due to their incompetence in, placing the shot where it needs to go. I take it personal when someone bad mouths a great round that has been around for over a century. I own two 30 30 rifles, and have hunted with one of them. I own two different models a 94 and a 336. It is one of my favorite calibers and when used within its capabilities, is very lethal. It can and has taken game larger than deer. But try telling that to Bubba, who thinks he has to have an elephant gun to hunt deer.

 

The 30-30 owes its longevity to two things; Its ability to kill cleanly at reasonable ranges, and the handy, ergonomic rifles that chamber it. I've said for forty years that you can kill a deer cleanly with a 22 Short, a baseball bat, or a brick. All you have to do is hit 'em in the right spot. And most 30-30's are more accurate than the people holding them. I've got a Marlin 336 RC made in 1964 that will stack bullets at 50 yards, and keep three shots under an inch at 100. It's so boring I haven't shot it in years.........no excitement there. I'd rather shoot something that challenges me!

Three at 100 yards. I know, I know, they're not supposed to do this, but my gun apparently never got the memo.



As for a subsonic load, I've never seen a suppressed 30-30, but that doesn't mean they're not out there. If would make a great starter gun for a recoil sensitive or blast shy shooter! :bandit:

 

I gave up on "Gun Magazine Expert Gun Writers" a long time ago. I think Guns and Ammo was the worst. Why subsonic ammo, the critter you shoot will probably not be worried by the bang.

 

Hornady came out with a new bullet made for subsonic loads. I though it was for the 30BLK but they are using it in the 30-30 I guess. I read the blurb on the bullet and it is made to expand at subsonic speeds. My favorite cartridge similar to what the OP is talking about was the 44 magnum. In a revolver it would shoot through moose and grizzly and all kinds of claims but in a rifle it is just good for deer in the brush. The 30-30 subsonic would be similar to a 357 mag revolver, which most claim is barely adequate for deer. Good way for Hornady to sell bullets though.

I see a lot of hype on anything shot out of a AR platform also. The 45 Bushmaster is supposed to be a great 200 yard cartridge and knock large hogs flat. It is nothing to sneeze at but I don't care how you shape a 250 grain 45 cal bullet its going to loose velocity very fast. I have a 6.5 Creedmoor and like the cartridge. Its in a Ruger Predator, but I really don't expect to bust aspirin tablets at 1000 yards with it. Its kind of like a +P 257 Roberts which isn't all bad. The new 350 Legend is being adapted to AR's and everyone is getting excited about that. I have a 35 Remington and don't get too excited about the Legend. Another Contender combination is the one in the 30-30. Had an individual tell me it was definitely not a 94 Winchester, which I agree, but not the way he meant.

DEP

 

It seems that you no longer need 1000 FPE anymore as long as it's sub sonic, like thats some kind of magic.

The only reason for sub sonic anything is for use with a suppressor, sub sonic rounds still go bang and make a loud noise unless used with said suppressor, and if the trajectory of a standard 30-30 is considered inadequate, imagine this thing. Similar to a 357 revolver? you mean the absolute minimum for deer in all the recommendations?, and only to maybe 75 yds?

Ok, maybe it's me, I don't get it, and I'm not one to poo poo the latest reiteration of whats already been available for the last hundred years. But this seems like a stretch

 

the 30-30 when it came out was the new whiz bang caliber and was used, successfully, for everything in this part of the world.....it is a better round today - so - its still good for all the critters in this hemisphere and the north 1/2 of the world as well.....it'll drop deer well beyond my self imposed limits....

I'll add - the light fast pointing rifles are made for hunting, carrying and just using in general....my fav caliber is 7x57....take a lot of abuse for that, but the old war horse will kill anything - right now -

 

Yep, I read a piece in one of the gun rags on Hornady's subsonic loads. As said above, subsonics make some sense when shot through a suppressor. I already have a subsonic load for the 30-30 and the 45-70. My data is packed away following our move last week and may not see the light of day for as long as a year. I do know my 30-30 load pushes 220 grain jacketed round points and my 45-70 uses Remington 405 grain CoreLokts. Subsonics for the 308 have been available commercially for some time. I buy Atomic 308 subsonics shooting a 175 grain jacketed spitzer hollow point. All of these are cat sneeze quiet through a suppressor. I have yet to use them on big game but inside 80 yards I think they will do fine with proper bullet placement.

Regarding ARs/semiautos, Many gas operated actions will not cycle using subsonics. One should confirm function before buying the rifle or ammo for subsonic use.

T.S.

 

The 300 blk will cycle with subsonics, prefirably 200 and over. HTH

 

Read a few articles where the gun writers claimed the 357 revolvers did not have enough power for deer. Knew a guy that had a 357 in his tree stand and killed a few when they came out on the awkward side for his rifle. Hunting with a pistol used to be considered similar to hunting with a bow and a very close range proposition. Kind of lost that flavor now.

DEP

 

A 405 gr bullet going 1000 fps is darn hard to stop. If your going subsonic, go heavy.

 

Could not agree more. No way I would hunt with a subsonic 30-30 when I have a couple of suppressed 45-70s to do the job.

 

They will probably work just fine although the 30/30 is a pretty mild kicking cartridge already .I am not understanding any need for them except suppressed.

 

Not subsonic, so If I’m drifting this thread, I can start a new one, but I’d appreciate thoughts on these. Anyone have any experience with them? I’m considering them for a recoil sensitive young hunter for whitetail. Maximum shot 50 yards.

125 grains, 2175 fps.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The caliber wars will continue forever, but a 125-grain rifle bullet at 2k or better is nothing to sneeze at, given good placement. The lighter recoil means it is easier for sensitive shooters to hit with, increasing the odds of placing the shot well. I don't think I'd poke a mule deer with one, but for everyday whitetails in the woods it should do fine.

There are a lot of new rounds introduced every year, and naturally some have more merit than others. That Core-Lokt load has been around for awhile, and seems to have a following. Ignoring the new wonderkind rounds that make inflated promises, this one seems to have some genuine utility. :bandit:

 

Seems to me a subsonic .30-30 is an answer looking for a question.....

 

For starters, shooting any cartridge at subsonic velocities through a suppressor is a Hoot! That alone, is enough reason for me to play with them.

My 30-30 subsonic loads launch a 220 grain bullet at 1050 fps and it is whisper quiet. I feel confident a well placed shot behind a hog's ear will do the job without scattering the rest of the sounder thus allowing additional kills.

T.S.

 

It has nothing to do with the capabilities of the 30-30 and everything to do with marketing.

 

In a way it shows the versatility of the 30-30. The reduced recoil load was mentioned, a 125 grain bullet. Also we have the newer Hornady LE's that extends it range a little. Now the subsonic for whatever purpose one would want one for. I guess it would have a place for a younger shooter. Also might be handy for plinking in the off season. Probably cost more than the standard loads though. 30-30 gets a lot of opportunistic use. The flat sided lever actions have always been handy to carry on horse scabbards, 4 wheelers, in pickups and so forth to be used on what ever shows up. I think mostly what sets off the discussion are glowing claims designed to sell a new product. This new product does not seem to impress many of the people on this site. For me, if I want a light load in a 30-30 I will cast up some bullets and use them that way.

DEP

 

I am just an older hunter at the latter end of middle age that has taken several dozen deer with 30-30 rifles. Across these many decades of deer hunting with this so-called marginal cartridge, none got away. Even large bodied western mule deer can not stand up to a well placed 30-30 bullet. But its not magic that the 30-30 is so effective. The factories build their bullets with a fairly thin jacket near the nose and with plenty of lead exposed to promote rapid expansion.

TR

Subsonic loads will likely appeal to those who hunt at very close range near urban areas. But the reduced energy does not appeal to me for my hunting needs. I'm a big fan of factory ammo by Remington and Winchester.

 

I have written my personal experience with the Sub-X 30-30 rounds in a couple of threads here and elsewhere.
They were spectacular failures on Arkansas deer.
I have yet to see a video of this round taking any game animals on YouTube or anywhere else. American Hunter gave this stuff an amazing review on a pronghorn hunt, but my experience with it was absolutely abysmal, with the exception of the raccoon I shot with it.

 

I think it is marketed to the Tactical Crowd. Given the popularity of Marlin Darks with that threaded muzzle....of course you need sub- sonic loads to get that max sound suppression. Its soooooo cool to pretend you are Military Spec.......

 

And the sad thing is there is a member on here who buys older 336's, modifies them to dark versions and makes good money off it. I guess you have to pay to be cool. I personally like full power loads. To each their own.

 

My experience with the subsonic rounds is that they did what I wanted them to do. I don't use a moderator, but wanted less noise in an effort to get a double. I was in a closed-in area where sounds are magnified. It worked, and was easily able to plant two rounds in the vitals of two 150# does within 10 seconds of each other. One ran about 20 yards and the other about 60. No different than regular 30-30 loads. They are very accurate in two of my 30-30's and I was not left frustrated or wanting. They are expensive. Was it worth it? Probably not, but I had a good time testing. They were both within 80 yards.

 

I can not tell the difference between the Sub-X and a full power load ( noise wise) without a suppressor. I am 15-0 on animals taken with my Marlin Dark/DeadAir Sandman combo since I ditched the Hornady Sub-X ammo though.
Want to know something crazy? I have found that the Dark/DeadAir combo has worked best with 50 year old Federal Hi-Shok my dad bought back in 1972-73.

 

Glad they worked for you, but ... I've taken numerous doubles and a couple triples with standard loads...the kids aren't sure what to do when mom goes first...