I have considered grabbing a box of the Hawkesbury 405's just for giggles but the whole cast thing just gets too confusing with the issue of going oversize and leading blah blah blah. They do a .458 as std. and if you want to go bigger you need to order them I believe?? In the end I decided just to stick with the jacketed stuff plus I don't fire that many rounds hunting, would be fun to try though????
It's kind of hard to imagine a 350g .458 cast projectile not stopping a pig, even un-expanded a .458 is a big hole in big hole out.
Cheers,
Waldo

 

I used the 405gr black hawks a while back. Not a bad bullet, really. Grouped well, especially with trail boss loads. I recall they were pretty hard (hence the name hard-cast, I suppose).

Just checked their website - the copper hawks are good to 2200 fps. The black hawks are rated to a max velocity of 1800 fps, apparently.

I haven't used them for hunting but I think 350gr at 1800+ fps would take care of most pigs. I'm looking for a 'plinking' bullet so I might give them a go again.

 

Thanks I might give them a try i usually run my 350's @ around 2000 fps so they should be good then, and at about 24 cents a bullet as opposed to $1.04 that would be good

 

I look forward to hearing how you guy's go with them.
Cheers,
Waldo

 

If you got real lucky you should be able to run those cast at the same or similar speed as the jacketed so with a bit of experimentation fluctuating the load and get very similar point of impacts?
I don't run my jacketed stuff that quick so it should be feasible? Might be an exercise for when I have nothing else to do.
Cheers,
Waldo

 

If the bullets are a little small you can always patch them. On one of the threads some one uses Teflon plumbers tape, a couple of wraps and your good to go apparently. Could be worth a look that idea

 

I use 158gr CopperHawkes excusively in my 1894 in .357. They shoot well enough that I usd them in Qld Lever Action titles recently. Have used 125gr and pushed them over 2000fps with no problems. Barrel easy to clean afterwards. I see they make a 200gr in .357 but there's no ADI data for that weight so will have to do some research and work up a load....

 

G'day

PLEASE NOTE THESE LOADS WERE WORKED UP IN MY RIFLE AND BRASS. PLEASE TAKE ALL NORMAL RELOADING PRECAUTIONS WHEN WORKING UP YOUR OWN LOADS.

I have used them a bit with Trail Boss, and AR2207 in my 1895 45/70 and they shoot OK, but my barrel is 0.4585 and these projectiles are 0.458, and as the name suggests they are HARD cast, they are not the best fit for my barrel, and so accuracy is not the best. For best accuracy I cast my own from pure wheel weight and they drop from my Ranch Dog 350-460 mold at 0.460/1 and I size them at 0.460. I also have a Lee 405 Hollow base mold that throws 0.461 and I shoot that unsized with Trail Boss with good accuracy, though that bullet is a round nose so single round loading with that one.

You could always try as Westcast if you can find them, they have a 350 flat point in 45/70, they are a gold colour, good for up to 1700 fps, and usually a bit cheaper that HB. Like the HB they are smaller and harder than I like but I did stumble across one load that seemed to work well.

Even If you did not hunt with them, they can be worked up to a similar load to your hunting load and are a much cheaper form of practice so you are really tuned in when THAT trophy is in you sights.



regards

Rich

 

I have to agree with Aussie Rich as for the Ranchdog molds, if you decide to try casting you had better get a wiggle on as Michael is winding down his business and there will be no more Ranchdog unless someone takes the business on. I believe H.River will size a bit bigger for you but just check and contact them. I also found that.460 shoots best in my gun but the smaller sizes (.458-.459) works pretty well too.
As for cheaper cast bullets there is a bloke in Toowoomba that sells plenty to the people here in Bundy, his particulars are at the range so next week when I go out I will get them and put them up. It is not just 45-70 stuff but a fairly good range and it is about half the price or less than Hawkesbury River.

 

I've used them ( 240gn swc bb Black Hawkes ) in my .44 with mixed results. I had issues with them keyholing, even at 25 yds when I loaded them at the high end with 10gns of Unique. So I dropped it back to 7gns and the shoot very well and will even knock down rams at 200yds.

I've now run out of those and have a box of the same but the gold ones which are said to be good for 1800fps, we'll see.
These are supposed to be .429 but mic at .430. (as did the blachawkes ). Don't know what the bore on my rifle measures but I suspect it's bigger than .430, hence the keyholing I first experienced, so I've wrapped a few of the new gold ones with a bit of teflon thread tape and I'm about to load them and see.
As for them being good for 1800fps, I suppose I could work up to it and see, I drive 240gn jsp pills that fast with AR2205 so I should be able to do the same with lead pills at lower pressure.

I have spoken to the bloke at "Hawksbury River" about sizing them a bit bigger for the Marlin barrels, but he didn't seem too keen.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

Let us no how the tape goes it could be simple solution to slightly undersized bullets If it works. Although probably should get the right size to begin with then I wouldn't have that problem And Towoomba is not that far away. I guess I should slug my barrel

 

Hey Moofy

When I heard Ranch Dog was closing his doors I jumped on line and got the .460 - 425g 3x3 half plain base/half gas check, only took 12 days from the states, but the day it arrived RD's web site said that he was no longer doing the half and half conversion, even with his remaining stock, so a case of very good timing and now I have the bigger brother to the .460 - 350g I have.

Hopefully cranking up the pot over Christmas and a range report to follow, I am really looking forward to the heavy hitters!!!

regards

Rich

 

Hiya Aussie Rich,
I am glad you got your mold, just in time before closing up shop. Good work.
The 425grs are about as big as we need here in Oz except for Buffalo.

 

And even if you cant drive the cast as fast as the jacked, you may not need too....

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/3...375-other-great-non-standard-calibers/84196-bovine-ballistics-range-report.html

regards

Rich

 

G'Day All
Casting your own is the way to go!! Just collect wheel weights, take out the zinc, steel and stickon ones, and you've got your alloy(all I use in the 45/70). Then get onto natchez shooting supplies or midsouth shooting supplies and buy a mold, 20lb pot, ladle, All will cost less than $100 plus shipping if you stick to LEE. Lube with liquid Alox messy but cheap. Now your in buisness. Never buy another bullet. One thing with casting you can practice all you want because the bad boolits can go back into the pot. The goat in the photo I posted was shot with a cast hollow point. Apart from my rimfires all my Marlins shoot home cast boolits and the new 338 express will too as here in Tas supply can be a issue. Also with plain base boolits a hundred loaded rounds can cost under $12. Less cost = more shooting!!
Juddy

 

I've got the Copper Hawkes to shoot quite well in my .44mag at low velocity, but I'm yet to try them at speed.


6 shot group at 50yds, with the 240gr round nose flat point on top of 7gr of Trail Boss.

 

I have been using the Hawkesbury bullets for some time now in both 45-70 and 30-30. I have shot many pigs and a few deer with them and they are great! Westings also make a good hard cast. Never had any leading issues and i run the 47-70s at 1750fps (405gr) and the 350gr a bit faster. They are not too expensive and seem to work great - the last red deer stag was shot from behind and above and i got a complete pass thru from about 130 meters using the 405gr.

 

Just ordered some 405gr Copperhawkes.
Will let you know how they go when I eventually get around to it.

 

Has any body had any luck with 240gn HRBC copper hawks in a 444SS MG. I tried them in my rifle but had no idea where they would go next. I down loaded 2207 to 31gn. but no better and seemed to be having all sorts of crap left behind in the barrel and heaps of smoke, like the powder wasent burning properly. Some people say MG barrels wont stablise lead, then ya read other posts and they reckon they are ok. Would like to get it sorted cause i got long pockets and short arms. Been reading a bit about Trail Boss, whats the go there with trajectory.

GUS

GUS

 

Have you physically measured the bullets to make sure they aren't undersized. Have you slugged your barrel,MG can apparently be on the large side. So you could have a slightly large bore and a slightly undersized bullet so you may have to look up how to paper patch. But I ain't no expert I'm only guessing:hmmmm: I could use that as my new signature line. Or " trust me I don't know what I'm doing":marchmellow:

 

Hey gafloss,
I was looking at the 405g cast with a oft load because of a shoulder issue, asked the question to HRBC with regards to AR2207, see below:

Hi, Considering running your copperhawk 45/70 405g thru my Marlin. All reloading data seems to have cast projectiles at \"trap door\" type speeds. Do you have any specific load data available? Looking to get a velocity in the 1200-1300 fps range. Also will the copperhawk achieve similar velocity to a jacketed proj. given the same powder charge? Apologies for questions never used cast before. Cheers

Hi


27 gns for AR2207 will give you these velocities you are looking for in a lead projectile,

While the copperhawkes are very resilient, they are not jacketed, so would have to run slower then you would expect a jacketed to run.
Say 1700fps rather than 2000fps

Hope that helps,
Waldo

 

Hi guys

+! on what waldo did, the guys at ADI always reply to my emails about load data, very helpful.

Just for info, with my Lee 405g hollow base mold in my 45/70 Trail Boss Max Velocity I got was 1150 fps, if you remember factory 45/70 is a 405g at 1330, so even a reduced load is still packing a punch.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/4...45-70-govt/57260-marlin-1895-lee-459-405-hb-bullet-trail-boss-range-report.html

As for load data the ADI manual has a 'Single Action' section in the back where it has a lot of low velocity loads for rifle, pistol and shotgun, including 45/70, a good read. Download it for free at the ADI site, don't pay $5 at the GS.

ADI Powders Handloaders' Guide

Regards

Rich

 

That bloke in Toowoomba I spoke about with the cheaper cast bullets, his name is Stan Eiser (0437824665) but I believe he is selling up to a bloke by the name of David Moon. You can get him on 07 46388064, his mobile is 0408717286 or email on [email]demqld@westnet.com.au[/EMAIL]. He runs Four Wheel Driver Training Queensland. He seems like an alright bloke as I met him at my range in Bundy and he actually comes to Bundy once amonth, (him and Stan) so for people here, there is no freight. He may be doing the same in other parts of S.E. Queensland. Just ask I guess.
Hope this helps.

 

Used 240gr SWC backhawkes years ago in a 44mag, back when blackhawkes were black lol, they did the job and I killed a fair few pigs with them but they weren't as quick a killer as a jacketed bullet and didn't expand. A mate shot a pig around 50kg through both shoulders using the 240 swc the projectile exited hit another pig standing behind in the head and still exited.
Cast my own now days and have been using a Lee 340gr mould in the 45/70 and loading them with black powder for around 1150fps, haven't had the chance to try them on pigs yet but have taken a few fallow with the load without a problem. Tried to work up a load with trailboss but couldn't get better than 2" groups at 50m for 5 shots, a switch to 2207 saw group size almost halved at similar velocities (1200fps).
I have been casting them fairly soft and am getting some expansion even at these slow speeds but 45cal hole is big even withou expansion.

 

they weren't as quick a killer as a jacketed bullet and didn't expand.

I did recover a few when I used them in the past and that was the impression I got, too. They are perhaps a bit too hard for hunting.

I'll use them for the range & plinking but keep the Woodleighs for when it counts.

 

Hey guys any thoughts on .357 projectiles/loads for pigs?

 

I have just loaded some HRBC 115gr 32-20 loads with W231 and AR2205. Will report on accuracy if anyone is interested? cheers,

 

I have no personal experience with 357 but I think a decent 180gr cast would be excellent at the shorter ranges for pigs.