I have everything it takes to load for the Roberts EXCEPT the rifle. I hunted with a Ruger Hawkeye for one season killing one antelope in Wyoming and two whitetail does in Missouri with it. But I didn't like the rifle and sold it.

I still have dies and all the components. The Roberts is a joy to shoot even in a fairly light rifle. I would love to have another one. It impresses me as an excellent antelope and deer cartridge.

In Sept. 2007 I bought the rifle and quickly threw some "book" loads together to hunt with in October and November. IMR 4350, 117 gr. Hdy. SPBT, CCI 200, COL 2.85" gave me 3-shot groups of 1.5", 1.2" and 1.2" on 9/28/07. On 9/29/07 at 200 yds. with some gusty winds, I shot three into 8" sitting and three into 6" prone with that load. On 10/8/07, sitting with sling at 100 yards three went 1.76". That's the load I used for an antelope at about 125 - 150 yds.

On 10/9 I loaded 35.0 gr. IMR 4064, Nosler 115 PT, CCI200, COL 2.85" for MV 2568 with Extreme Spread of 22.87, and Std. Dev. of 9.6. On 11/10 that load was 1” high at 100 and zeroed at 200 with a 3-shot group from sitting going 4.5” at 200. That’s the load I used for two neck shot WT does at 100 yds., give or take a little. I suppose the penetrating ability of the Nosler PT was sort of superfluous in that situation.

In December 2007 and through March 2008 I did a little load experimentation using IMR 4064 and IMR 4350. By April 2008 I wrote a note in my records that "4064 is not THE powder." Five shot groups were going just 2.5" at 100 yards. My quickie load development in Fall 2007 served me well in the hunting field but I could never get the rifle and loads dialed in the way I felt they should be afterwards. The Ruger Hawkeye was handy enough but I just never took a shine to it like my Rem. 700s.

Whether it was the rifle or me, I don't know but this was the poorest accuracy of any rifle I own. Maybe some day I will try another rifle. For now all the paraphernalia and my load notes are boxed up on the shelf.

 

papajohn

Congratulations on your 257 Roberts, it is a fantastic cartridge that is very under loaded and under appreciated! With good loads, you will be stepping on the heals of the 25-06.

I have a M700 Classic in 257 Roberts that shoots well under MOA with 100 gr and 115 gr Nosler BT and PT bullets. IMR 4350 is the best powder to use and RL 22 isn't a bad choice either.
This coyote was taken this past winter at 140 yds with the 110 gr AB and 46.0 grs RL 22.

JD338

 

No 6.5 Rem Mag :'(

:'( .DT

http://www.chuckhawks.com/6-5mmMag.htm


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=168579638

You owe me $7 PJ, look below at link ;D
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=168807288

Check out this ventilated barrel goodness?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=168822536

I wouldn't mind one of these 673's to call me PA!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_673

 

I've lusted after rifles chambered for the Roberts for thirty years, I've always though it offered a great balance of power and mild manners. But I happened on an auction for a barely-fired Ruger 77 in 257, and fell in love. I won the auction a few hours later, and can't wait to get started loading for it!

Anyone got any favorite loads, or bullets, that will work well with a non-magnum 25?

Good job on the Roberts! I loaded for my FIL's Rem 760 in 257 Roberts from the '70 until his death in the late '90s. The single best load for just everything was, according to my very old notes, was the 117 gr SPBT Sierra in Remington brass, Win 8 1/2-120 primers, 36.5 grains of IMR 4064 for about 2,650 FPS. He could drive nails with the gun/load combo! Second best was 41.0 grains IMR 4064 behind a Hornaday 100 grain SP at just over 3,000 FPS.

He killed his last deer near Miller, MO with the 117 grain load.

 

I have an old Remington 722 in .257 Roberts which I took in a trade two years ago. It came with a few boxes of handloads from a shooter I trust. It is very accurate, grouping under 3/4" all day. Problem is, it is a right handed gun and I'm a southpaw. It has become a safe queen. I owe it better than that.

 

Papajohn,
You mentioned that you considered a 6 mm Remington. I've always heard that it and the .257 Roberts are very similar. I have two 6 mm Remingtons and never thought that one could want anything more for shooting any game up to and including deer. In recent years I've gone mostly to lever actions but still have the old Remington 742 and a Ruger M77. I've been thinking of expanding my reloading to include the 6 mm so I can use lighter bullets than the 100 grain that is readily available.

 

A dozen years ago, maybe more, I sat down and studied all the ballistic charts for hours, trying to decide which was the best "all-around" caliber under .308. I wanted velocities in the 2700+ range, a standard-length action (or shorter), a caliber chambered in a fair number of rifles, easy-to-find brass, bullets and ammunition, and a wide range of bullet weights.

When I got done, I decided the best bore size would be .257, because the range of bullet weights doubled from one end to the other.........60 all the way to 120 grains. I started looking for a 257, discovered that only Ruger still chambered it (at that time) and then fell into a deal on a 7mm Mauser. I got the Mauser, played with it for a couple years, then moved on to my next love, whatever it was.

I still have the 7mm Mauser ammo I loaded for it, I tracked it down last night. It was loaded 11-28-90, and still looks good. I'll pull the bullets, dump the powder, punch out the primers, and reform it to 257 as soon as I get a set of dies.

I still love the notion of getting a 6mm Remington, it's a wonderful reloader's cartridge. Maybe in a year or two when I've gotten bored with the 257.......

 

You had a 7x57 and got rid of it? Well you lost there.
However, as we're talking .257 Bob today, my pet load is the 100 gr. Barnes TSX over 44.5 gr. of IMR-4350. (CAUTION: Max load in the barnes #4 manual.) My other 100 gr. bullet load uses either the Sierra Pro-Hunter or Game King with WMR powder which is no longer available. Rifle is a Winchester M70 Featherweight. I have some Nosler ballistic Tips and Partitions but so far the rifle hasn't liked them very much. The rifle is a fairly recent acquisition so I haven't done very much with it.
My other .257 Bob is a Ruger #1B that came with 5 boxes of Norma 100 gr. ammo. I didn't even know that Norma ever made .257 ammo until then and I see they don't have it cataloged these days. I did shoot up part of one box in the Ruger and half inch groups were apparently normal with that ammo.
Just a note on the Barnes bullets. They are darn accurate, Atleast the ones I have used have been. I've used the 100 gr. TSX in the Winchester with one inch being the average even when I've been a bit sloppy in my shooting form. Te 225 gr. TSX from my .35 Whelen have been a consistant .50 to .75" depending one how well I'm shooting on any particular day. I just bought 100 140 gr. TSX bullets for my 7x57 but have not gotten around to loading them yet. My M70 Featherweight in 7x57 has been sub-MOA with everything I've run through it except some 150 gr. bulk Winchester Power Points I bought. There is so much difference in weight from what the nominal 150 gr. they are supposed to be that they're just trash taking up space. Too bad as they looked like a good bullet.
I'll probably be using my .257 for deer this year if I get lucky enough to draw a tag. Seems like the state wants more money every year and doles out less tags. : I didn't get anything at all last year so had to pay and play on a land owner antelope tag. Might have to do it again this year if I don't draw unless I can find something a bit less expensive. Pay for play makes for some mighty expensive steaks.
Paul B.

 

Papajohn,
You mentioned that you considered a 6 mm Remington. I've always heard that it and the .257 Roberts are very similar. I have two 6 mm Remingtons and never thought that one could want anything more for shooting any game up to and including deer. In recent years I've gone mostly to lever actions but still have the old Remington 742 and a Ruger M77. I've been thinking of expanding my reloading to include the 6 mm so I can use lighter bullets than the 100 grain that is readily available.

The 6mm Remington and the 257 Roberts are necked down from the parent cartridge, 7mm Mauser. All three are great rounds. In my mind, the 257 Bob is sorta special.

Papajohn, is your Ruger 77 a long action?

JD338

 

JD, I'm pretty sure it is, it looks long to me. I hope so, because I want to be able to seat bullets out and don't need a short magazine limiting my OAL. I have high hopes for this rifle, and plan on shooting it at 200 yards pretty much all the time.......at least until I can find someplace to shoot farther. I'm looking hard for bullets with a really high BC. Anybody have any favorites that don't cost a dollar apiece? :

 

Papajohn,

Look at the Nosler 115 gr BT, the BC is .453 and on game performance is second to none. Check with Shooters Pro Shop, Nosler's retail store for factory seconds.

I have shot my 257 Roberts out to 440 yds.


JD338

 

PJ, I had a Ruger 77 round top in .257 and the most accurate load I found for it was with the Hornady 87gn and lots of IMR4320 with that combo I did shoot it in 200yd competition. Lot of groups under .3 at 200, for some reason mine did not like most of the favored bullets and I did want to shoot the Sierra 117 SBT, but best I done with that bullet was an inch at 200 good for deer but lousy for bench groups. My Rem in .257 like the 117 Sierra SBT and a starting load of IMR4064

 

Ironically, the Ruger long action has a short throat in .257.....at least, mine does. You can't use the full magazine length, but that's okay, as seating the bullet out doesn't gain much velocity. I'd rather have a long action with a short throat than a short action with a long throat!

I've had good luck with H4831, RL22, RL19, IMR 4064 and H4895. I'll locate the loading manual I left in the truck and post some loads in a bit. Near 2900 fps or so is possible with a 120 and long case life in a 22 inch barrel.

If your preferred bullets are close to the same weight, say 87 for varmints and 100's of stout construction for deer, the 257 will print its bullets close together, which saves time sighting the rifle. 3200 fps with 100's is doable and prudent with the .257.

I use the 75 VMax for varmints, and the mild recoil is quite nice.

 

35remington

Good point!
In my 257 Roberts, Nosler 85 gr BT, 100 gr BT, 110 gr AB and 115 gr BT all shoot within 1.5" of each other at 100 yds. The 100 gr BT kills deer like lighting too.

JD338

 

Dad's Remington 722 in 257Roberts was new in 1951. I was 2 years old. It sets in my cabinet today. Grandfather bought his used in 1952. It also resides in my cabinet. Having two nearly identical rifles has given me lots of basis to compare and almost write off using loading manuals as any kind of guide to maximum. These two Remingtons, made two years apart, are a full grain apart at where Dad top loaded them starting in 1957. The older one has a tighter chamber, and shoots better, though they both will outshoot me any day in the week. Dad and Grampie were both better shots (for grouping) than I ever was. (Years later, I shot an elk that Dad had missed twice! yeah, ELATED was the word!)
Dad always said his longest shot on a whitetail buck (confirmed by a surveyor buddy of his) was at Pistle Green, East of Nicatouas Lake, Maine in 1953. 412 yards, one shot kill, open sights, 100gr Winchester Silvertip. Dad was 26 and had fantastic eyes. I've shot antelope with open sights to over 300 yards while in my 40's, but I wouldn't try it today. He shot a lot of Hornadys and Sierras. Best accuracy was Norma bullets, though were hard to comeby. He definitely prefered Nosler Partitions. All were 120gr or 117gr back then and later Nosler dropped to 115gr. He thought a 125gr Barnes would be good for elk. I found a box of the Barnes and loaded some, but never tried them on elk. He followed Jack O'Conner a lot and adopted Jack's pet 257Roberts load (46.5gr IMR4350/117gr Nosler Partition) as his "own" as nothing else worked as dependably in the nearly 60 years he used it exclusively. When he did elk hunt, he chose his 30-06; though he wanted to try the 257Roberts, he never did, acknowledging the '06 to be a better choice for elk.

When I received the first installment on my inheritance, it came in the form of Grampie's 257Roberts. Dad advised using 100gr bullets, even though he had shot mainly heavier versions. He cited the aforementioned whitetail buck taken in 1953. I changed slowly. Shot my first deer with a 117gr Sierra boattail driven by 45gr IMR4350 - 330yards. After moving to Wyoming, it became my antelope rifle, though honestly I shot more with my 41mag Blackhawk and 6.5TCU Contender. Shots were 25yards to "way out there". I remember the first shot at an antelope with the 257. It was "way out there". Kicked dirt between its feet. HUH? Then I remembered, it was still sighted for "Back East", dead on at 100 yards, and I hadn't allowed for any drop. Silly me! I still load 115gr Nosler Partitions with the above charge, but have also shot a lot of 100gr Sierras with various powders. The 115's will crowd 3000fps pretty hard, but 100's at 3200fps is enlightening and relatively easy to achieve. You gonna have fun!!

Jeff
NRA Life

 

I have a Mark-X mauser I've been handloading for since 1976, shot a ton of Sierra 100 and 117 gr SBTs with a lightly compressed load of H-4831, careful, case capacity varies a lot. Recently tried Hybrid 100V, goes thru the measure like snail snot and shot 1.25" at 200 yds with start charge and 117 SBT. 75 gr Hornady HPs shoot great too, clocked some at 3600 fps with H-380. Be careful of temperature variation with ball powders though. Had real good luck accuracy wise with Nosler Ballistic Tips, destroy a lot of meat though. I'd stick to heavy bullets at 2700 fps or less for anything you want to eat. Enjoy.

 

Another .257R proud owner here. Mine is a recent Ruger Hawkeye topped with a Burris FFII scope. Although, I have not found "The Ultimate" load for it yet. I have had good luck with H4350 and H414 using Speer's 100grains flat bases and Nosler's 110 grains Accubonds. My Ruger does not have a short throat and I am able to seat my bullets close to the lands. The oversize (for the caliber) magazine comes in handy.
One thing I've found is that most reloading manuals underload the Roberts a lot. Perhaps, with the exception of SPEER's #14 which has +P loadings. Albeit, still on the low side. But, not by much though.

As said before, "You are going to have fun" with this gun. It has quickly become my favorite gun to shoot. Congrats on your purchase

 

Yes, heed what he posted about temp variation/sensitivity! I moved from Green River, Wy to San Diego in June 2002. I had some neat 100gr loads with H380. That San Diego heat locked the case in the chamber on the first shot. Ramrod got it out, BUT there could have been consequences beyond embarassment. Did the same thing with some H4831 heavy loads with my 257.
Best thing is to stay out of the heat, but that not being an option, read and heed.

Funny, nothing ever happened like that with my Persian Carbine, but that's another story....

Jeff
NRA Life

 

Papajohn, I have what probably started out as the same rifle you have, but mine's been rebarreled to .257 AI. Standard (30-06 length) long action Ruger M77 MKII. My standard hunting load is a 117gr Hornady SST over 51gr of RL19, for a chrono'd 3150 fps from the 24 inch barrel. I've also pushed 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tips to 3300fps with IMR4350 in the same gun, but prefer the heavier .257 bullets for hunting. I would imagine you could see 2900 fps with any 115-120gr bullet from the standard Roberts in your factory 22 inch barrel, and close to 3200fps with 100gr bullets. I have several other combos I've been itching to try, but haven't had the time yet........110gr Nosler Accubonds over H4350 (temperature insensitive), and IMR7828SSC behind the 117gr Hornady to see if I can safely gain a little more velocity with the slower burning powder.

My dad has an older Ruger 77 MKI (old-style tang safety) in standard .257 Roberts, but exclusively loads 87 and 100gr Ballistic Tips for it as (I think) it has an older 1/12 twist barrel that won't stabilize heavy bullets. I don't know how much IMR4350 he uses, but he only pushes the 100gr bullets to 2950fps in that gun.

To tell you the truth, I'm thinking of selling my Ruger and building a long-action Remington Mountain Rifle into a standard .257 Roberts hunting rifle. The older I get, the more I hate having to fireform brass for my .257 Ackley Improved.

Stu

 

Stu, that's some good information, but now I'm a bit confused. Doesn't fireforming brass involve simply firing standard loads in your chamber? And either you shoot this gun a lot, or I'm not understanding something...........Ackley Improved rounds are blown out to minimum taper, which reduces case stretching and prolongs case life. So why is case forming necessary, unless you're shooting this rifle constantly?

Those are some very impressive velocities! I'm not one to hot-rod a cartridge, but this one is going to see the Plus-P loads eventually. One thing about Ruger firearms is that you don't have to tiptoe around them with your ammo!

 

Stu, that's some good information, but now I'm a bit confused. Doesn't fireforming brass involve simply firing standard loads in your chamber? And either you shoot this gun a lot, or I'm not understanding something...........Ackley Improved rounds are blown out to minimum taper, which reduces case stretching and prolongs case life. So why is case forming necessary, unless you're shooting this rifle constantly?

Those are some very impressive velocities! I'm not one to hot-rod a cartridge, but this one is going to see the Plus-P loads eventually. One thing about Ruger firearms is that you don't have to tiptoe around them with your ammo!

You're correct about fireforming involving firing standard loads in the Improved chamber. I actually load 100gr bullets over a starting load of IMR3031, with the bullets seated into the lands for a contact fit upon closing the bolt, as a fireform load. I just find it tedious to go to all that trouble (expenditure of components, as well as the time at the range to shoot all that ammunition just to produce reloadable fireformed hulls), instead of just being able to resize and load unaltered .257 brass.

In the over 10 years I've owned the rifle, I've produced about 200 fireformed cases, some now going on 5-7 reloadings, with minimal trimming necessary. I lose some cases in the fireforming process, and have lost some to split necks after multiple reloadings. My main problem is (and it's probably just me) that I prefer to begin any load development process with freshly fireformed brass to screen for overpressure indications (incipient case head separation, loose primer pockets, evidence of brass setback) that I can visually pick up apart from anything I might see on the Chrony, which kind of limits my experimentation. Plus, I just don't have the time to spend at the range that I once did, eliminating the fireforming process will help with my available time to experiment. And, living in East Texas, load development from about May-October is difficult due to extreme ambient temperatures (sometimes it never gets below 90 degrees at night during the summer).

I may just take the opportunity to rebarrel the Ruger again, with a very high quality barrel like a Shilen or Hart, back to standard .257 Roberts. It's already set up nicely with a Timney trigger, HS Precision stock, and Nikon 3-9x40 Monarch. My wife will tell you I never need an excuse to spend money on rifles...... ;D

 

I know what you mean about finding range time and wasting components, but my only experience with fire-forming cases involved using six grains of Bullseye and a caseful of Cream of Wheat to blow some 30-30's out to straight-wall configuration. I'd have to assume that my method wouldn't generate enough pressure to set the shoulder and neck to the proper dimensions in a high-intensity cartridge.......right? Too bad, because it's not very loud, and you could do it in your back yard or garage.

I have dies, brass and bullet due here today, and this brass is going to be prepped with the kind of care I haven't given in quite awhile. I have high hopes for this rifle, and expect it to dominate my limited attention span for awhile. But when all the loads have been chronied and groups measured, I'll still be getting out my 357 and 44 and 30-30 Marlins to harass the rabid zombie soda cans that frequent the area. No matter how many we kill, more always appear! 8)

 

I've heard of the Cream of Wheat thing, but never tried it. My fireform loads with 3031 sometimes don't do enough to totally define the shouder of the case, so I'm guessing Cream of Wheat wouldn't be a good substitute for a bullet seated into the lands.

Enjoy loading for it, I find the AI to be fun to load for and shoot, apart from the fireforming. Part of my range time issue has to do with my 30-30 336SC, it shoots LeverEvolution real well (got a hog with it last December) but I have a bunch of Sierra 150's and 170's that need my attention. Not to mention a lot of IMR3031 used previously for fireforming AI hulls.....

Stu

 

I'll assume you are using virgin brass as opposed to factory ammo for your fireforming. You are both correct in that CoW will not generate enough pressure to get the job done with the heavier brass.

Dad always wanted an AI. He started studying the 257R back in the late 30's, even before he was in high school. In '51, he got his dream, and his father, who didn't want him to have it, made the last payment for him. That's about three other stories..Bouyed by what he had read, he wanted an AI version, but babies and life got in the way and he never did it. In '73 when my Grampie passed away, he thought maybe this was the time as he had two nearly identical rifles and to AI one would give neat head to head comparison. A couple gunsmiths he talked to worked at talking him out of it. One flatly refused to "ruin such a nice rifle". Dad was deflated, but still talked of having it done. Years went by, he turned to the '06 for his elk hunts and didn't deer hunt anymore, and then,,,he didn't hunt anymore period. I've had so many rifles, I never considered it being done after one and then the other of them became mine. The AI's I've been around, were great and their owners either loved them or fussed with them to the point of anger and frustration. The Parent Cartridge is a good one.

These new powders I have not played with in the 257R; the gun writers claim "new life to an old ....." how many time have I heard that in the last 60 years. Some things don't need new life, they just need to be used. We seem to always be looking for a way to make something equal to something else. Somethings were destined to be unique.....like me....one of a kind. I believe the 257R is a great round, whatever flavor it comes in.

A 100fps in max velocity difference is not near as neat as 1/4 minute groups, though they both have their place depending on the individual user. Stu, that IMR3031 might be better used in your 3030.

Jeff
NRA Life

 

I agree with not bothering with the new fangled high falluting powders for the most part, but that Hybrid 100V stuff goes thru the powder measure real smooth if you are used to even the SC versions of 4831 or IMR 7828. If it gets over 90 degrees here I take the dog for a swim or go bass fishin'. 8)