Advantage? No!!! It is just a matter of preference thing. I am a .444 lover but see no advantage in the .444 over the 45-70 except for trajectory when shooting under 350 gr bullets/boolits. Now for the heavy projectiles over 350 gr the 45-70 has the advantage because it will handle much heavier projectiles, so it is all about what, how and where you will be hunting.

Dave 8)

 

Get both...

I'm a 45-70 guy myself, but I do plan on getting me a 444 someday (first decent deal I find, when I have the $$$ in my pocket)

As far as advantages...like VTDW said, it just depends mostly. But the 45-70 does tend to kick a bit harder than the 444.

 

This is great advice! You'll love em both!

 

Shoots flatter, kicks less, cost less to reload. (Sounds cooler to say fo-foty-fo ;D) DP

 

Can the 444 be loaded "heavy" enough to bring down elks and bears?
Just asking in case I win the lotto tomorrow.

 

Everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

You can load the .444 to take an elephant if you want. The remington 240 factory loads will take all North American game. Lot of options. Nice to have options 8)

 

I wasn't a reloader until I got my .444. maybe the .444 will make you learn more about ballistics and accuracy because it is primarily for reloaders when compared with 45/70. Commercial ammo for 45/70 is more easily found around my place than .444.

overall, I agree with VTDW.

rimrock

 

The 444 can do everything that a .45-70 can do. The main prob is that there are a lot fewer 444 factory loads than .45-70, and 444 is harder to find in stores. There is also somewhat of a difference in bullets, since a lot of 444 jacketed bullet loads employ pistol bullets and the .45-70 employs bullets designed for the most part solely for a rifle. If you don't handload, the .45-70 is probably the better choice. If you handload, either one is an excellent choice. The best solution is to buy both and reload for them. I wound up getting a .45-70 first and then got a 444. I love'em both!! If I could have only one...I would refuse to accept that option and I'd have'em both anyway!!! (I'm stubborn and pig-headed and freely admit it. )

Although, I gotta tell ya, I'd feel a lot better if Hornady 265 JFP bullets were more readily available for the 444 than they presently are. That is my preferred bullet for that cartridge, and I prefer it to the gummy tips.

 

Thanks guys, I'm going to take a real close look at the 444 this weekend.
Pretty much everything I shoot is my handload so I'll load for the 444 too.
My first load will most likely be a 285gr LFN-GC @ 1,800-1,900 fps for hunting hog and deer.
I used to load this bullet for my Ruger revolver @ 1,275 fps and had great success in terminal effect and accuracy.

 

I wasn't a reloader until I got my .444. maybe the .444 will make you learn more about ballistics and accuracy because it is primarily for reloaders when compared with 45/70. Commercial ammo for 45/70 is more easily found around my place than .444.

overall, I agree with VTDW.

rimrock

Well stated rimrock

 

The only real difference in the field between the 444 VS 450/45-70 is opinion, theres pro's and con's for both, either one works.

 

I've owned both ... but have a 444Marlin at the moment. Brass is harder to find than 45/70. Flip side is that 'play' projectiles are much easier to find in 44cal ... so you can practice cheaper than a 45/70. I use mine with a reduced load and a 240gr moving at 44Mag speeds, but only need to slip in a 'full power' 300gr load to be ready for larger game. The ability to practice at cheaper costs I find advantageous.
Cheers...
Con

 

I'd feel a lot better if Hornady 265 JFP bullets were more readily available for the 444 than they presently are. That is my preferred bullet for that cartridge, and I prefer it to the gummy tips.

Beacon, take a look at the Speer 270gr Deep Curls. I decided I'd be dead before Hornady made a run of the 265's. The 270 gr's I've dug out of a backstop, loaded to the same level, are about the same.

Learned my lesson, the next time I see Hor/265's on Precision or Powder valley, I'll likely order at least 3 boxes, but they are not "better" than the Speer Deep Curls.

 

TMan51,

Thanks for the heads up! That does look like a good bullet!! The 300 doesn't look too bad, either. Looks like I'll be ordering some!! Gracias, amaigo!

 

There is also somewhat of a difference in bullets, since a lot of 444 jacketed bullet loads employ pistol bullets and the .45-70 employs bullets designed for the most part solely for a rifle.

Revolver bullets flying at rifle velocities tend to fragment early without proper penetration. This can be a problem (among others when one doesn't choose the right bullet for the job) on heavy game and deer that don't know when they're already dead. This is the only disadvantage to the round and if you know what you're hand loading it doesn't matter.

 

All I can say is buy both, you won't regret it. 1895G and 444P below. If you have to start with one might as well start where you can - if the 444 is available and reasonable grab it but if you're only going to buy one more rifle grab a 45/70.

 

I think I would have to agree with 1895Gunner just grab the first the first good deal and enjoy ,:biggrin: we all know you will own one of each sooner or latter :tee:

and just so you know the only real advantage is the "35 rem advantage"-----check it out :biggrin:

 

Or, you can shoot hardcast and it's all good...

 

The 444 vs 45-70 debate is a classic false choice. Certainly, you don't have to have one and not the other. And if you are at all reasonable, if you love one, you must love the other. These two big bore straight walled cartridges are pretty much blood brothers if not actual twins. The deer, bear and boars can't tell the difference when they're smacked down. There are maybe just slightly better ammo and bullet choices for the 45-70. Remember that only the .458 diameter 45 cal bullets will fit 45-70; you cannot use 45ACP or 45 Colt or 454 Casull bullets. There are so many good choices in 44 cal. Both these cartridges are a handloader's dream. Those who have said the 444 is a little flatter shooting with a little less recoil are correct. Those who have said the 45-70 does an especially good job with 350+ grain bullets are also correct.

 

And you can question if the heavier bullets of the 45-70 are actually necessary or an improvement over the heaviest loads a 444 can muster - dead is dead and the 444 will handle anything on the continent, will it not?

IF I shot a 44mag, I would get the 444 for the advantage of using the lighter pistol bullets for playing.

I pretty much would get the 444 anyway - it's enough plus..

Jeff
NRA Life

 

The 444 vs 45-70 debate is a classic false choice. Certainly, you don't have to have one and not the other. And if you are at all reasonable, if you love one, you must love the other. These two big bore straight walled cartridges are pretty much blood brothers if not actual twins. The deer, bear and boars can't tell the difference when they're smacked down. There are maybe just slightly better ammo and bullet choices for the 45-70. Remember that only the .458 diameter 45 cal bullets will fit 45-70; you cannot use 45ACP or 45 Colt or 454 Casull bullets. There are so many good choices in 44 cal. Both these cartridges are a handloader's dream. Those who have said the 444 is a little flatter shooting with a little less recoil are correct. Those who have said the 45-70 does an especially good job with 350+ grain bullets are also correct.

X2 very well put.
P.S. BRING BACK THE 405!!!!!!

 

X2 very well put.
P.S. BRING BACK THE 405!!!!!!

.405 Winchester: 300 gr at 2,200 fps. .444 Marlin: 300 gr at 2,200 fps. Mmmmm...

I love the versatility of the .444 platform. I cast from 200 gr to 350 gr and load from 1000 fps to 2300 fps. That's a lot of versatility. Loads from moose stompers to powder puff practice loads my nine year old daughter used to consume by the hundred count. All with tremendous accuracy too! Simply the best.

 

Hey Tony,
I think a 405 Winchester Short would be in order to work in the Marlin action - would be the 405JES - a 444 tapered to 411 by Jesse Ocumpaughe in Oregon.

I personally would rather have my own creation come to life, a 40-65Improved. Makes a nice bottlenecked case for improved combustion, kind a sexy in its own way, and will still shoot factory 40-65 ammo, if any were found. And would work in a Marlin action with minimal modification. 1895 action, 1894 barrel. Rechamber a 41mag barrel and screw it in. I just love the 40 Calibers.

Jeff
NRA Life

 

Either caliber can be loaded to take anything on the planet. For me, the difference is the size and weight of the firearm. A .444 chambered in a 94 platform, is an extremely light package, considering the power of the .444. I own both calibers and would hate to have to chose between them.

 

Hey Tony,
I think a 405 Winchester Short would be in order to work in the Marlin action - would be the 405JES - a 444 tapered to 411 by Jesse Ocumpaughe in Oregon.

I personally would rather have my own creation come to life, a 40-65Improved. Makes a nice bottlenecked case for improved combustion, kind a sexy in its own way, and will still shoot factory 40-65 ammo, if any were found. And would work in a Marlin action with minimal modification. 1895 action, 1894 barrel. Rechamber a 41mag barrel and screw it in. I just love the 40 Calibers.

Jeff
NRA Life

Sounds like fun. Wouldn't it be a .41-65 though?

 

.405 Winchester: 300 gr at 2,200 fps. .444 Marlin: 300 gr at 2,200 fps. Mmmmm...

I love the versatility of the .444 platform. I cast from 200 gr to 350 gr and load from 1000 fps to 2300 fps. That's a lot of versatility. Loads from moose stompers to powder puff practice loads my nine year old daughter used to consume by the hundred count. All with tremendous accuracy too! Simply the best.

Yeah I know Tony, I thought about the similarities after I posted my rant. On a happier note you of all people will me excited to know I just ordered my first Hardcast slugs for the 444. I don't know why I thought I needed them, I suspect I've been brainwashed by some bloke in Canada ??? ;D

 

I wouldn't hesitate to take anything including the big bears with the 444. Its more than up to the task. those 300 gr hardcasts will shoot thru a phone pole. nothing stops em. I can't imagine any game animal walking away from one. I originally set out to get a 45/70 but found the 444 first. I no longer need a 45/70. I do cast for 44 mag too so having the same bullet is an advantage for me. 300 grains is enough for anything I will do and the trajectory is flatter than the heavies in the 45/70. the 350's bring the 444 into a whole new level of power if needed. the 45/70 does have more power but its not really needed.

when I finally go bear hunting (in a blueberry thicket with a salmon around my neck) I will be toting the 444 and will fear not.